Science and Research Committee on June 13th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Welcome to number 49 of the Standing Committee on Science and Research.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room, and we also have members remotely using the Zoom application. We have a witness on Zoom, as well, today.

I have a few comments regarding Zoom. To choose your interpretation, you have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. Mute yourself unless you're speaking. When you are speaking, speak through the chair. That goes for everybody, please.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(i), and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, February 14, 2023, the committee commences its study of the Government of Canada’s graduate scholarship and post-doctoral fellowship programs.

It's now my pleasure to welcome our witnesses today. Thank you for coming and preparing for today's discussion.

First of all, in the room, we have Colin Colterjohn, Ph.D. candidate from McMaster University. From Support Our Science in Winnipeg, we have Marc Johnson, chair of the board.

Each of you will have five minutes to give us your remarks, after which we'll go to the rounds of questioning. I'll start signalling you, when we're at time.

We'll start off with Colin Colterjohn from McMaster.

[Colin Colterjohn, Ph.D. Candidate, McMaster University]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and the Standing Committee on Science and Research, for inviting me to give the testimony of my experience as a graduate student in Canada.

I thought it best to begin by addressing how McMaster University recognizes and acknowledges that it is located on the traditional territories of the Mississauga and Haudenosaunee nations and within lands protected by the Dish with One Spoon wampum agreement.

Next, I'd like to open by giving an overview of who I am and what my research is. I'm a Hamilton native currently studying at McMaster University in the engineering physics stream for my Ph.D., specializing in the nuclear stream. I primarily focus on modelling the introduction of small modular reactors into Ontario's energy mix. If you have any questions about this, please let me know. I believe I may have exhausted my partner's patience on the topic of nuclear reactors at home, so it would be best to get it out of my system while I'm here.

With the support of my amazing supervisor, McMaster University, Mitacs and other research funding groups, I've been fortunate enough to have opportunities to collaborate with international professors and pursue my research abroad, such as spending nine weeks in Japan last summer as part of the Mitacs-JSPS Globalink award.

However, while amazing opportunities such as this may exist on the individual level, I have found that graduate funding as a whole is an area worthy of rehabilitation in Canada if we are truly seeking to ground innovation domestically and support a new generation of industry-leading experts.

For almost the entirety of my undergraduate career, I knew that grad school was a route I wanted to follow. That being the case, I still spent the vast majority of the time looking into pursuing my graduate career in the United States rather than Canada, largely due to the immense funding opportunities that exist for both researchers and varsity athletes down south. In the end, though, the opportunity to work with a specific professor at Mac shifted my interest back home. Though I'm happy with my decision today, it has not come without its difficulties.

For example, I recently purchased a very modest home in Hamilton. I am the only one I know, among my peers, who has been capable of doing so, and I could not have done so without my fiancée sharing the financial burden. She is a registered nurse who has also recently rejoined the academic community to obtain her master's as a nurse practitioner. Unfortunately, as is the reality in today's housing market, my fiancée was unable to begin her graduate career until after we successfully secured a home together, as Canadian mortgage insurers do not consider my guaranteed graduate and research scholarships to be counted as consistent income, even when stipulated as such by my issuing university.

Together, with the aid of our respective graduate bursaries and collective funding, as well as all qualified OSAP support, we still would not be able to sustain our current mortgage payments without the part-time jobs we both hold and balance alongside our full-time education. My fiancée continues to work 12-hour shifts as an RN and I operate as a part-time bar manager in Hamilton in order to subsidize the mortgage we otherwise could not afford. Even then, our financial situation, though sustainable, is far from comfortable. I believe this remains a best-case scenario for many graduate students seeking to own their own homes today.

While it may seem obvious that the preferred alternative to this arrangement would be for us to wait until we have finished our respective degrees before purchasing a home, this option is rapidly becoming less and less realistic. Housing prices continue to soar out of reach for my friends who have yet to purchase a house, and rental prices are scarcely easier to manage.

To summarize, while I sincerely appreciate the support I have received from my university and all government funding agencies thus far, I believe this support is quickly becoming insufficient for incoming students. Today, Canadian graduates seem to have to make a decision between pursuing higher education or being able to afford adult life. I feel this dichotomy is nothing short of detrimental to furthering Canadian-led research and innovation. I do not believe we can sustain our graduate programs if we're asking young people to put their lives on hold in order to follow us.

Thank you again to the chair and this committee for the time. I hope my testimony might help in strengthening Canada's commitment to graduate research.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you, Mr. Colterjohn, for coming to the committee and for your succinct testimony. I appreciate that.

Now, we'll go to the next presenter, Marc Johnson, chair of the board, Support Our Science.

Marc, the floor is yours.

[Marc Johnson, Chair of the Board, Support Our Science]

Thank you very much.

Dear Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to be with you today. I'm speaking to you from Winnipeg, Canada, Treaty 1 land, which is home to many first nations today and the homeland of the Métis nation.

For background, I am a professor of biology at the University of Toronto Mississauga and the Canada research chair in urban environmental science. Today, though, I am speaking to you in my role as chair of the board at Support Our Science, or SOS.

SOS is advocating for higher pay for the nearly 300,000 graduate students and post-doctoral scholars working across Canada from coast to coast to coast. I am speaking to you today because stagnation in funding and inadequate federal financial support for graduate students and post-docs is the most important issue in Canadian research and innovation today.

I'm not going to restate Support Our Science's requests of the government. If you'd like to see them, they were given in the May 9 testimony by Sarah Laframboise, our executive director. I'm happy to put them into context if you have any questions about them.

This is an important issue, because research at university in Canada drives the discovery and innovation of our nation that fuel our economy. The people doing this work are largely graduate students and post-doctoral scholars. It's important to put this into context, because “graduate students” is a bit of a misnomer. They're not really students in the traditional sense that you think of students. They are researchers. Their main job is doing research. Post-doctoral scholars have already earned a Ph.D. They're already among the most highly trained and skilled people in our country. We need these people for Canada to succeed, and we're forcing them into poverty by paying them less than minimum wage. You'll hear about that today from some of the other testimony.

Let me put this into perspective from a personal angle. In 2003 I was a second-year Ph.D. student. The Conservative Party of Canada in that year, when they were in government, had a bold vision to create a highly trained generation of people who would drive our innovation economy. They created the Canada graduate scholarships program for master's and doctoral students. They also increased the value of postgraduate scholarships and increased the value of post-doctoral fellowships.

The following year, in 2004, I was among the very first Ph.D. students to be awarded a Canada graduate scholarship. It was worth $35,000 per year. That money, that investment, was transformative for me. With this money I paid my tuition, my food and my rent. The investment allowed me to focus on research. With this increased focus, I was able to make major discoveries about how plants defend themselves against pest insects. This work has had applications to agriculture, horticulture and conservation. For this work, I won the Governor General's gold medal and several other awards.

This success led to me receiving an NSERC post-doctoral fellowship, which I took to Duke University to learn cutting-edge techniques in molecular biology and genomics. Armed with this new knowledge and these skills, I then started my own laboratory as a professor, eventually at the University of Toronto Mississauga, where I'm training the next generation of scientists, master's and Ph.D. students and post-doctoral scholars, who are making their own discoveries that are contributing to our country and economy.

Now, herein lies the problem. It's been 20 years since I did my Ph.D., and the federal support for graduate and post-doctoral researchers that I received has changed by zero dollars. Imagine if you hadn't received a raise in 20 years. I think most of you would have left your profession by now. That's exactly what's happening. The Canadian research system is in crisis. Our brightest minds in Canada are leaving the country in droves.

In 2019 the McGill TRaCE study discovered that 38% of all freshly minted Ph.D.s in Canada are leaving for other countries where they are better compensated, mainly in Europe and the U.S. That's nearly 3,700 Ph.D.s leaving every year that we've just invested in. That investment was intended to drive our innovation and our economy. When they leave, that's a lost investment. I've estimated that it's worth $740 million every year.

That study was in 2019. The problem is even worse today. Essentially, Canada has become the world leader in training people to leave our nation. That's why increased federal support for graduate students and post-doc students is the most important issue in Canada today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you, Dr. Johnson.

Now we'll move to our round of questions.

First of all, welcome, Kelly Block, from the Conservative party. It's good to see you here.

The first questioner from the Conservatives will be Corey Tochor, please.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing today.

Mr. Johnson, you said there was a 0% increase, but we know that's not entirely true. When you factor in inflation—right now, we're suffering from a 30-year high in inflation—it's worse than a 0% increase. It's a decrease, because fewer dollars go further now than in the past.

Have you heard of other students having to use the food bank or changing their living environments to somehow get by on the same amount of money that you received 20 years ago?

[Marc Johnson]

In inflationary terms, you're exactly accurate. The values are now much less than they were 20 years ago, of course.

Yes, there are many students who are in dire straits. Many students are using food banks. If you go to the website for Support Our Science, there are lots of graduate and post-doc students who are telling their stories there, and it is heartbreaking. Some of the students have to live in vans, so they are actually homeless.

This is why I say the system is in crisis. These are people who are supposed to be our leaders for the future. They're supposed to be leading our innovation and discovery in Canada for the benefit of Canada, and we are forcing them into poverty. I think that's not right.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you very much for that.

I'm switching gears to our other witness today.

Colin, thank you very much for appearing here in person. I understand that you are working on fuel research. It sounds like you had a professor who had a connection with you or an impact on you, and that's why you went to McMaster.

In general, though, what is the federal government's role in encouraging more people to study in the sciences and, especially, nuclear science?

[Colin Colterjohn]

My belief is that the allocation of funds through bodies such as Mitacs and NSERC has been crucial to the growth of STEM at McMaster and at the other universities I've seen.

There is significant funding that exists that students are not made aware of, and whether that comes down to the government needing to speak with the universities more or the universities needing to step up in order to let the students know that this funding is available.... I think that is one of the largest missteps that seems to exist, personally, as a graduate student.

Beyond that, I'm not too sure if—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

There's a role.

[Colin Colterjohn]

Yes, if there's a role....

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I'm changing gears a bit. I applaud you. It sounds like you and your significant other are putting down roots and making a go of it. It sounds like, I would assume, you are working late nights with a secondary job.

Of your fellow students, how many others are forced into having evening employment?

[Colin Colterjohn]

I believe a good portion of them usually seek additional hours, whether it be via additional TA roles, additional marking roles outside of the program or additional research hours. I cannot think of any students I know of in a master's or Ph.D. role right now who do not either work with a company through their Ph.D. to increase their overall funding or who have not sought additional working hours from their professor. I think that tends to be the most common role.

I grew up working in the restaurant industry alongside school, so that was an easy option for me to have alongside my research career. However, most or all of the graduate students I know tend to seek additional work hours in some form or another.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Could you add a bit on your personal stories of other students who are struggling with inflation right now? Earlier, we heard our other witness talk about people living in vans and using food banks.

What are other personal stories you might have heard from other students?

[Colin Colterjohn]

I would say the number one that I have seen is friends of mine who are in serious, committed relationships and very much want to do what I've been fortunate enough to do, which is to move in with their significant other or take the next step of an engagement, but they are unable to do so. That is because, right now, the only housing they can afford is a seven-person house just off campus, where rent is in the hundreds of dollars, rather than being four figures.

I would say that is probably the example I've seen reoccurring the most that I would point to most directly. Some of what I mentioned in my opening.... Other people my age, younger or older, seem to be putting their lives outside of research on hold, because research is such a major step in their career. I don't think it's sustainable for us to be asking them to do so.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

We understand that, with the most recent budget, we have more inflationary gas poured on the fire, and it looks like costs are going up next year as well.

What do you think are the next implications of inflation once again setting a new record with students?

[Colin Colterjohn]

Could you just clarify...?

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

It's going to get worse.

What is the next decision students will have to make to cope?

[Colin Colterjohn]

It will very likely tend to be the social side of things. As the social side of things tends to happen, a lot of students, who are already introverted, tend to bury themselves more in their work, which we know can have a very dire effect on their mental health. Overall, I think that will have a negative effect, if students don't have the social ability to go and see people outside of research.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you, both.

We'll now go to Stéphane Lauzon for six minutes, please.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm pleased to see you with us, and I thank both witnesses for their testimony.

My first question is for Mr. Colterjohn.

Mr. Colterjohn, I reviewed your profile and saw that you're a water polo player. I'm sure you juggle the demands of both academics and sport. I've been the parliamentary secretary for sport, so I know a little bit about the sports scholarships system.

Can you tell us about the contribution of scholarship programs to your ability to maintain a balance, thanks to the scholarships you received? Have you received any scholarships for both sports and academics? Tell us a little about that system.

[Colin Colterjohn]

Unfortunately, I have not received any funding for quite some time for water polo. That being said, I do recognize that water polo is a lesser-known sport in Canada. Of all the sports where funding is allocated, it is likely very far down on the totem pole, which is something I agreed to when I started to play it decades ago.

That being said, if we look at the overall recognition of the amount of time that athletes give to sports, the funding in the United States completely dwarfs what is available in Canada for anyone from undergrad to graduate research. The comparison is that funding today for virtually any sport outside of the big three or four is non-existent outside of perhaps a signing bonus when you start your undergrad.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

So, you think it would be a good idea to review the system of combined sport-study scholarships.

[Colin Colterjohn]

I'm sorry. The translation didn't come through.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Is the interpretation working now?

Is it working right now?