Science and Research Committee on April 11th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you.

I've visited Niagara several times. My youngest daughter has two diplomas from Niagara. I think we have shares in Niagara College as well.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Mr. Boulerice, you have six minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for their presence, as well as for their invitation. I may go for a visit if I have the time, because I'm interested.

Ms. Seccombe‑Hett, Aurora College's mandate is quite interesting, since it includes improving the quality of life of the people of the Northwest Territories by using science and technology, but also indigenous knowledge. This mandate therefore includes socio-economic objectives for the people of your region.

What research projects are currently under way as part of this mandate to improve the quality of life for the people of the Northwest Territories?

[Pippa Seccombe-Hett]

Thank you for the question. It comes under our mission.

I can give you some research examples. One is a partnership we hold with our territorial government and regional partners monitoring permafrost along the Inuvik Tuktoyaktuk Highway. We are really spending a lot of time investigating that, looking at slope stability, road stability and snow loads. In order to maintain that infrastructure, how do we best maintain the road? We have a college-university regional partnership conducting that work.

Another example is using UAVs to monitor slope stability above cultural sites that are important to indigenous communities in the region. Another example is using Lidars to measure wind speeds, and to look at putting alternative energy or wind energy systems in remote systems to diminish our carbon footprint.

Those are some examples of some of the research programs we're actively engaged in. Other ones are looking at contaminants in water around mines, looking at whether the water sources around some of our communities are safe and looking at the legacy impacts of mining, like arsenic from mining. Those are some examples of the work we're doing, if that's helpful.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Earlier, we talked about climate disruption and the greater effect it's having on northern communities. You have a research centre on the reality of the Arctic, which is a vast territory that will become increasingly accessible, unfortunately. What research is this centre doing on the Arctic, and how can people in the Northwest Territories benefit from it?

[Pippa Seccombe-Hett]

Our research centre in Inuvik is busy. It is the hub of research activity in the western Arctic. You see people from our college conducting research on permafrost, water, infrastructure, energy systems—all types of things. Researchers from around the world are looking at treeline migration and climate change impacts on fish, animals and terrain. There's a broad range of research going on, largely in partnership with some of our indigenous communities as well.

The return of information could be improved. A lot of research is conducted, and it takes a long time to make it back to the people. That has created tension, and it speaks to the inequity I mentioned earlier. All the funding is controlled by people outside of the region. There's no research funding to sort out your own challenges where you could really benefit from research.

There has been historic inequity across the north that's well documented. It remains a tension today, although our researchers are improving that. Having people on the ground working with the community changes that conversation slowly.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you. It's interesting to hear about these historical inequities.

Mr. Nantel, I won't forget you: I'll address you in the next round.

Ms. Seccombe‑Hett, the government of the Northwest Territories has set five key priorities for research: cultural preservation, environmental science, health and wellness, natural resource management and community sustainability.

What do you think the federal government's role is in achieving these five goals when it comes to research funding? Is it well done, effective and adequately funded, or would you say the opposite?

[Pippa Seccombe-Hett]

There are many northern research questions. Funding is constantly a challenge, but maintaining capacity is equally a challenge. As we grow and develop the capacity, having access to more funds to conduct applied work will improve our ability to answer those questions. There are many unanswered questions that funding could help address, but it's also about having the capacity to address them.

Funding, increased partnerships and the ability to connect community to post-secondary institutions are very important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

We'll move to the second round.

The first questioner is Corey Tochor from the Conservatives, for five minutes.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you so much.

That testimony reinforces the importance of colleges in their communities. I applaud what you're doing with your local economies, both in the north and in the south.

Starting with Niagara, does the federal government increase funding amounts every year based on inflation at all?

[Dr. Marc Nantel]

Not really, no. It isn't based on inflation.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

If you go back 10 years, what was funding roughly like? Be mindful of the time.

[Dr. Marc Nantel]

It was less, but it's not as if it was calculated with inflation, obviously.

I can't tell you about 10 years ago off the top of my head. In the past few budgets...we've seen some injections post-COVID. There was an injection for the CCI program at NSERC. That was much—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Has that kept up with inflation?

[Dr. Marc Nantel]

It wasn't an inflation thing. It was more like an injection post-COVID for getting out of this—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Did it keep up with inflation or not?

[Dr. Marc Nantel]

I wouldn't know how to calculate the compound interest of inflation over the past 10 years. I can get back to you on this, certainly.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Please do.

I'm switching to the north and the Aurora folks.

Up there, your funding is very similar. It's up a bit, but is it covering all your costs right now? Does it cover the increased costs associated with inflation?

[Pippa Seccombe-Hett]

No. We can do less with the funding than our counterparts in the south, certainly. The costs of everything in the north are double.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Absolutely.

To quickly spell it out to some of the people down here who haven't been to the north, how much is a jug of milk? How much is a litre, a gallon or four litres of milk? What is the rough cost up there?

[Pippa Seccombe-Hett]

Goodness. It's $10. It really depends on the community. If the community is closer to the border, it's cheaper. Up in the coastal communities, it could be $20 or $25. There are programs to help offset that, but I think on average, it's $8 to $10—

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Did I hear that right? Is it $25 for four litres of milk?

[Pippa Seccombe-Hett]

When you look further north, yes, but I'm thinking it's probably around $10. There are subsidies to support and offset that, but it's a constant challenge.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I have heard that the northern subsidy doesn't cover that, and one of the reasons is that milk gets taxed with the increase of the carbon tax. The farmers have to heat their barns and keep animals safe, and they're paying an increased carbon tax on that. Now there's a quadrupling of that tax. The cost to transport that milk up to the north also includes paying for the fuel, most of which is diesel, and for the increased carbon tax, which makes life that much more unaffordable. Meanwhile, I think your facility unfairly feels the brunt of climate change.

We have a policy that does not lower emissions, does not help in our fight against climate change and costs you additional dollars, so your students in research in the north, it seems, get less done than those in the south. Would that be a fair comment?