Science and Research Committee on April 16th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you.

It's good to get the numbers in there.

Now we'll give a five-minute round to Michelle Rempel Garner to start us off.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll start with Dr. Weissman.

I was really struck by your comments on the student experience as it correlates to housing. This is something we're all very aware of.

I'm wondering if one of the recommendations that you think the committee should make to the federal government is that the eligibility for federal research funding be tied to some aspect of the rental housing index like rental availability within a certain region, which could be modified by purpose-built housing for student accommodations.

[Dr. Eric Weissman]

I think that's a brilliant idea. I hope you'll come to our symposium in the fall, because we're trying to upstream ideas about how to deal with that piece.

I believe there is no single housing solution. Most of us on our research team fundamentally believe that, even if students aren't getting SSHRC-CGS or other grants, as soon as they enter graduate school, there should be some form of housing subsidy to help guarantee that basic need. Really, the difficulty they are having with precarious housing is leading to them failing their own goals.

Yes, I think it's a great idea.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'm trying to look at a way to incent institutions to be part of the solution when it comes to housing. We've seen many institutions across the country with high intake numbers of students—particularly international students—without thought to housing.

If we could incent institutions, particularly through research funding, to use land that has been granted to them, or push municipalities or even the federal government as part of their lobbying strategy to ensure there is more rental housing through a metric like this, perhaps we would get more action.

[Dr. Eric Weissman]

It's interesting that you say that.

I will tell you that, as a result of some of the work we did with Nova Scotia Community College in the Maritimes.... They grabbed onto this very public story because everybody knows a student who is suffering because of housing. The Government of Nova Scotia announced, four months ago, five new housing facilities for students through the college as a result of understanding this need. It can be done.

Many of the vehicles you're talking about are there to be utilized.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

That was a bridge to my questions for Mr. Bélanger and Mr. Quadir.

There's this notion of quotas, where funding is attached to student population. I understand where you're going with it, but don't you think it would just incent institutions to juice their numbers, as opposed to looking at overall student experience? If we have a set quota experience, what would stop universities from just increasing numbers or counting virtual students, and not accounting for things like housing when we're in the middle of a major housing crisis?

That's point number one.

The second concern I have with quotas is that they might have a perverse outcome. I'll be very honest with you. The people who are in front of this committee the most—more importantly, in front of public servants the most—are highly paid lobbyists from the U15 Group. They have a whole advocacy group. They are constantly in front of public servants. I am not convinced a quota system wouldn't make outcomes worse for smaller institutions because of the lobbying presence of larger institutions, which could easily gamify a quota system that would work in their favour, putting a cap on the ability of smaller institutions to expand student experience.

If quotas aren't the be-all and end-all, what else could we be doing? Are there ways to perhaps decouple graduate student funding from professorship funding and look at having more access to rural institutions or colleges? Frankly, we're always looking at the rural versus urban metric here. Perhaps we should be looking at affordable versus unaffordable institutions, as well.

What else could we be doing? What else, outside of quotas, is a way to solve this problem?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Fahim Quadir]

Thank you for asking this amazing question.

One of the things we want to do is make graduate education accessible. I think that is the number one priority. If Canada wants to succeed in the current global political economy, we have to consider graduate education as a top priority for the nation.

The second question, which is associated with the first one, is this: How do you make sure the student succeeds? Should you be able to offer funding support so they don't have to go to a food bank or struggle to find the money to cover the cost of housing for the duration of their study?

These two issues, in my view, influence the narrative of graduate education in Canada. I don't think the quota—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

We'll have to leave it at that thought, but thank you.

Now it's over to Ms. Kayabaga for five minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Perhaps I will let him finish his comments, as I am interested in the answer, as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

That's a great idea.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

You can finish your answer to my colleague.

[Fahim Quadir]

I've lost my thoughts on that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Fahim Quadir]

Maybe it will come to me, and then I'll let you know.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I can bounce off some of the comments that I heard from my colleague across the floor. I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on the onus being on the universities to also support their students and make sure that.... We were talking about the food banks, for example. I don't think that should be a Canadian problem. The universities do receive funding from the students and from the government to establish a healthy environment.

She was mentioning housing. Where is the onus on the universities to also provide that housing, versus just keeping an open quota where you limit it to the resources you have? Can you maybe comment on that?

[Fahim Quadir]

It's a very difficult question.

Universities don't receive really all the support for housing or for offering what we call “living subsidies” to graduate students. In the current environment and in what we normally do, I would say that only about 10% of our students are funded externally by granting councils. Depending on the institution, it could be even lower, at anywhere between 1% and 16% of the students.

The larger body of our graduate student community would be supported internally by us in the institutions. We offer funding support in the form of teaching assistantships, research assistantships, graduate fellowships and university scholarships. All of those things would come from the university.

I have been in graduate education for the last 18 years. What I have been witnessing in the last few years—maybe three or four years—would be almost unparalleled to anything I have ever witnessed in my entire 18 years of graduate administration. It's a crisis situation for universities. As a graduate dean, I cannot really go to bed not thinking of those students who are struggling on a daily basis.

We do whatever we can internally to mobilize resources to support graduate students to make sure they get through this process, and that they get through this process quickly and painlessly, but unfortunately the whole situation is beyond our control. We don't have the resources to support graduate students the way we want.

If I could just go back to the issue of quotas, I tend to think that the quotas we are proposing would benefit all universities, not just a few, and every single university with a graduate population would receive a number of scholarships dedicated entirely to their own students. They should not lose the opportunity to support the graduate students who desperately need funding support for the amazing research activities they've undertaken.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

What effect do you think the current model we have in awarding graduate scholarships has on smaller universities?

[Fahim Quadir]

The smallest universities are struggling. As you have heard, 79% of the funding would be concentrated into particular areas, including my own university. If we are to think of something more beneficial for a large number of graduate students studying in all universities in Canada, we have to step outside of the current funding model to see how we could support those students, who are struggling to receive funding support despite the fact that they are academically bright and very talented.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Could I ask a question of Robin Whitaker?

During the recent study on pay gaps among faculty at Canadian universities, witnesses explained that the traditional division of the past of tenure track and tenured university professors involved 40% teaching, 40% research and 20% service, such as sitting on committees, reviewing for journals and mentorship.

Is there a concentration of federal research funding in large research universities and does it have an effect on other aspects of professors' work, such as teaching or service work? Could you explain that a bit?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

You have about 20 seconds.

[Dr. Robin Whitaker]

Thanks for that.

I think that across the board what we're seeing is increasing pressure on everyone, thanks to the unfortunately large number of precariously employed academics. We can't separate those questions from wider system questions. People are increasingly—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Okay—

[Dr. Robin Whitaker]

I think I'm out of time. Am I?

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Yes, you are. Thanks.

We're almost at the top of the hour and we have rounds of two and a half minutes, starting with questions from Maxime Blanchette-Joncas.