Evidence of meeting #23 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meetings.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Does this mean that the section of the Criminal Code on human trafficking is used very infrequently?
11:55 a.m.
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
Currently, it is not used.
11:55 a.m.
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
Correct, because it is new. It came into force in January. It is not used. I can tell you that it is not being used at all. There is a lack of understanding and it is not well known. People need to be informed about it. There is a misunderstanding.
11:55 a.m.
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
It is related to the definition of trafficking.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Oh, that is what it is. It is always the same old story. I understand.
11:55 a.m.
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
When we talk about trafficking, the legal community always thinks of international trafficking. They imagine someone who came here against their will who is being held prisoner and forced into prostitution. Such cases are extremely rare. If we had more resources, we would see more cases like that. We could also take action in those locations that I mentioned, and where we are not able to work due to a lack of police and crown resources.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Is this section on trafficking sending a message that trafficking equals organized crime and that, consequently, the case must be made that organized crime is involved?
11:55 a.m.
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
The City of Montreal Police Service would be the only force who could use this statutory provision. It is not being used because of a lack of understanding. At this time, as I mentioned, I am not even able to lay charges of procuring or keeping a bawdy house, because keeping a bawdy house is considered a frivolous crime.
Noon
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
You say frivolous, but this is still considered an infraction under the Criminal Code. The law must be enforced, must it not?
Noon
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
Yes.
Noon
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Is it more of a legal problem meaning a problem with a legal process? You arrest individuals, and this is where the problem occurs. Is that correct?
Noon
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
Currently, the problem is largely related to the number of officers and funding allocated to deal with this phenomenon. Currently—
Noon
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
That is correct. It's setting priorities.
Noon
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
It has to do with the use of officers. Officers could be used to fight street gangs, organized crime or violent crimes. There are different types of pimps. Some, in fact the majority, use psychological control, which is not considered a violent crime. Women involved in these crimes consent. Education comes into play; there is a lack of understanding. So people call this a frivolous crime.
That is why I said at the outset that I have to fight every day to defend the idea that this is not a frivolous crime.
Noon
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Okay. I understand.
Did some of the $6 million amount that was invested to fight street gangs in Montreal go to your service?
Noon
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
No.
Noon
Conservative
Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you.
I thank both presenters for the presentations today.
I am very interested in a couple of comments you made, Dominic.
You're on the ground every day. The thing I've been hearing and that this committee has been hearing from police forces is that human trafficking across Canada—your comment was that it's very rare—is not very rare. It's just that there are no police resources there to deal with it.
We're struggling with the definition of human trafficking. In my view, it is forceable confinement and forcing people to have sex for money, whether they come from another country or from our country. We had a model here the other day who was talking about how middle class Canadian women have been trafficked, and they do it through modelling agencies. There are many agencies, many ways to do it.
The fact of the matter is that it keeps coming back to more police resources and more training. Right now the RCMP has a video out, which is just being launched, for the RCMP detachments so they can be trained in human trafficking. Do the other police forces have any of those videos available or any training available? Would it be useful to have a mandatory course in police academies to ensure that they do get training in human trafficking? Is that useful? Could you make a comment on that?
Noon
Sergeant Detective, Supervisor of Investigations Module (E.S.E.C.), Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children, Vice and Alcohol West, Montreal City Police Service
This is one of the points I had noted.
There is a play called Le prince serpentshowing in Montreal right now that talks about child prostitution. It's very helpful, very educational and has had excellent results. It refers to measures that have a real impact and that can help. This is a monster that we have to fight. Our fight, with our means and prevention, which puts us up against the current culture is equivalent to the fight between David and Goliath. We're talking about essential means.
I want to talk about police training. About two weeks ago, I met with the head of the Canadian Police College about training on sexual exploitation. Such training has been in place for about one or about two years now, specifically on child pornography, but it's really new. There are not really any bases or specialists in exploitation. Right now, there are no courses at the Canadian Police College. Nor are there any such courses at the École nationale de police du Québec. It's essential. The techniques used, the way we need to approach victims, the psychology we need to use requires advanced training. Otherwise, the officers who will do this work will get discouraged. They will not feel supported, they will not have the knowledge to follow through on what they will have to deal with. Right now, even at the legal level, judges and prosecutors need to be educated. We are doing some work in this area because there has been a huge change since 2002 with regard to children. Training has to take place at all levels.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
