Status of Women Committee on Nov. 19th, 2009

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Thank you. Merci.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, and thank you to our guests.

I'd like to start by acknowledging some people's presence. We acknowledged some people in the audience earlier, but we also have a number of folks in our audience today who are students from McGill University, and they're women. There are 35, I believe, who are here.

First of all, it's good to see them here, but it also brings to my mind an example. We have 35 young girls. We know that the female-to-male proportion in university education is shifting quite dramatically. I really believe that the world is going to be their oyster as the baby boomers leave some of these jobs. We have a recession right now, but ultimately these young students are going to have many opportunities.

We are certainly concerned. We talked about the different pattern of women's work, and we perhaps need to look at women who find themselves in particularly difficult situations, as happened with Madame Demers' mom, but has there been a lot of work done in terms of the future? I know the contributions women are making into RRSPs are starting to increase more and more, so I think the issue we have right now is perhaps going to be a very different issue, and maybe not an issue, 20 years from now.

I'd appreciate some comments.

[Monica Townson]

If only it were true.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It will be.

[Monica Townson]

I just finished writing a paper on women and poverty and the recession that looks at the roots of women's poverty. There a whole bunch of them: women's wages are lower, there's no child care, their access to training is lower, the welfare rates are too low, women who are single parents have the highest poverty rate of any group in society, and so on. Even though women have gone into the labour force in much greater numbers, as I said earlier, the kinds of jobs they're getting are not going to provide them with stable long-term financial security, so the fact that women are out there working and in many cases doing really well--women are much better educated now than they were, and in many cases better educated than men--is not spelling out in terms of better salaries and better financial futures. That's why I think it's so important for the work that you're doing to look at how you provide financial security for them in the future.

[Danielle Casara]

I agree with the other witness. I have no intention of repeating all her arguments. In Quebec, we have had pay equity legislation in place for 10 years now. Enforcement is remarkably difficult. That means that, despite their higher education level and other positive legislative factors, women's salaries are still lower than men's.

I am not usually pessimistic, but I have little hope that snapping our fingers will make this materialize. It will take several generations to catch up, hence the need to provide greater security to women under public plans. Things are not going to change overnight.

[Claudette Carbonneau]

In any case, even if women's employment situation were to improve—something that we should all hope for—I agree that waving a magic wand will not make it happen. The fact remains that access to a pension fund, which allows you to accumulate money for retirement, will continue to be a necessity.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

I hope my more optimistic view of our future is realized. It doesn't, as you say, neglect the fact that we need to be planning for pensions in the future.

Actually, this is a question that I'm almost embarrassed to ask. We talk about CPP and QPP. What are the differences with QPP? I know probably most people here understand that QPP is administered in the province. Is it any different in terms of benefits or rates or...?

[Marie-Josée Naud]

In fact, the Quebec Pension Plan is the plan in place in Quebec, whereas the CPP is the plan in place in the rest of Canada. I am no expert on contribution rates, nor do I have technical expertise in this area, because I work in educational resources. I think it is simply the plan that operates in Quebec.

[Monica Townson]

There are some minor variations--for example, in the benefits for dependent children of contributors, and so on--but basically the two plans are the same. Quebec's plan is administered in Quebec. The CPP is a federal-provincial thing, and in fact Quebec has a vote on changes to the CPP.

If you are somebody who works both in Quebec and in some other province, or if you have worked in Quebec in the past and then you work in some other province in Canada, your pension at the end will be based on a combination of both plans. Your service in the QPP would be combined with what you had in the CPP, so your pension would be based on a combination of the two.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

I'm sorry, but you're well over your time. Perhaps we'll go quickly to the video side to see if there's something you can add to that very quickly, as the time has lapsed.

[Nathalie Joncas]

I would just like to add one thing about the CPP and the QPP. Two reforms have been announced: one has been announced in relation to the Quebec Pension Plan, and Bill C-51 has already been passed.

If different approaches are taken, the two plans may end up not being quite so similar. Indeed, the differences between CPP and QPP have been fairly insignificant thus far. One of the important points to make is that the CPP is on a more sound financial footing than the QPP, because Quebec's population is aging more quickly than that of the rest of Canada. The effect of an aging population is thus a lot more pronounced in the Quebec Pension Plan than in the Canada Pension Plan. That may require different kinds of changes.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Thank you.

We'll go now to the Liberal side. Mr. McCallum and Ms. Zarac are going to split their time.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you. I would just like to ask one question and then share the rest of my time with my colleague.

My question is for Monica Townson. I believe that right now the contribution rate for CPP between employers and employees is 9.9%. Rounding it up, we can call it 10%. That's up to about $44,000 or so.

[Monica Townson]

It think it is $46,000.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Okay, it's up to $46,000, and for that you get a 25% replacement rate. I would have thought that if we moved from a 25% to a 50% replacement rate, doubling it, the contribution rate would approximately double. Is that not right?

[Monica Townson]

It would if it were done as you describe. There are some options. For example, you could increase the contributory earnings and raise that level from $46,000 to a much higher level.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Let's say we leave it at $46,000 but go from a 25% replacement rate to a 50% replacement rate.

[Monica Townson]

Yes, I think it would be, roughly. The CLC has calculated it. I don't remember exactly what it was; it wasn't exactly double, but it was certainly increasing.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

My question is addressed to Ms. Joncas. You said that we don't talk enough about the costs of social services for the poorest members of society and the direct connection between that and pensions. I agree with you.

Has the CSN conducted any studies in that area?

[Nathalie Joncas]

No, we haven't studied the impact of not having a pension plan. However, we do know that, at the best of times, only 40% of workers have access to an adequate pension plan. That number is currently dropping. We have conducted a lot of studies dealing with poverty among seniors. If we no longer have these supplemental pension plans, the situation will certainly not improve. We will continue to have problems.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I understand, but I was just wondering if you had done any studies on this.

[Claudette Carbonneau]

No.