We're on the same team.
Evidence of meeting #5 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elder.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #5 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elder.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
President, International Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
We're on the same team.
4:25 p.m.
Scientific Director, National Initiative for the Care of the Elderly
The point I'm making is that we don't really know, research-wise. We're gerontologists. We know, but we don't have it tightly proven--
4:25 p.m.
Scientific Director, National Initiative for the Care of the Elderly
--and that's what we need to do.
4:25 p.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
I'd like to make a couple of points. There's one thing in terms of a definition.... Definitions sit within particular kinds of context and it's very useful for us to have a common definition in terms of our research. How that actually plays out at a policy level, how that actually turns into things like laws at a provincial or territorial level or federal level, is actually quite different. It depends on what we're trying to accomplish.
The other thing is in terms of understanding the level of the data that exists--or, more accurately that doesn't exist--within Canada. We're not just talking about specific prevalence and incidence data, but about the data coming from social agencies that are working on the issues with older women and older men. Their funding structure is so precarious in most circumstances that with any kind of data-keeping you can't get figures on things.
So even anecdotally, what the trends are, are you seeing more...? Well, the other day I was talking with the BC Centre for Elder Advocacy and Support, and they were saying yes, that in the last couple of years they have seen probably about a 50% increase in the number of calls they are getting, but they have introduced a brand new clinic--
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Ms. Spencer, I apologize for cutting you off.
Ms. Gutman, with regard to a hard number here, you indicated that 8,300 women in Europe die every year—
4:25 p.m.
President, International Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
People: men and women. Older people aged 60 and over die from homicides every year, a third of which were perpetrated by a family member.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
I think it's less than a dozen.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Could I ask you to undertake something? Then I'll stop.
Ms. McDonald, you were showing us a very interesting book. Could I ask you to provide copies of that for our committee? I think that might be helpful.
Also, I thought your presentations were excellent. Could I ask you to provide those to the chair so we have copies? There's a lot of great information in there.
Thank you.
4:30 p.m.
Scientific Director, National Initiative for the Care of the Elderly
Could I just say, though, that the evidence on gender is mixed? That is why Gloria says.... That's the reason: it's mixed. If we could get our research done, we would know for sure, and I'm sure it's that the women are targeted.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
To be clear about it, quite consistently across the country, about two-thirds of the calls that come to the attention of the community agencies relate to older women. It doesn't quite reflect the proportion within the population. But does that reflect that it's more hidden for older men or does that mean it's more common for older women?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon) Conservative Tilly O'Neill-Gordon
Okay.
Sorry, Mrs. Sgro.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Thank you very much.
You spoke earlier--Ms. Spencer in particular--about the issue of families and how they have to be dealt with when you have a son or a daughter abusing the mother or the father.
Have we started to move forward in working in a multi-faceted way with the police when it comes to treating this issue? It's a very difficult issue to deal with the son or the daughter or the husband or whatever, so what's the approach? Surely we have progressed now to having a multi-faceted approach to these issues.
4:30 p.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
I guess the best I could offer is to look at what happens at an individual level. For instance, in the context of a particular teen, a police officer and a social worker would work together, as opposed to what happens more broadly.
Many of our approaches really are victim focused: they focus on the person who is experiencing the abuse. That creates a challenge, because in many instances it's both people--or the family--who need the support and assistance. If there is a mother whose son has a mental health problem or a substance use problem that may be part of the underlying reason for the situation, the focus still tends to be on her, as opposed to helping both of them.
We have that very strong victim-focused kind of approach. There are efforts--for example, within northern communities--to take more of a whole community and a whole family kind of approach, a well-being kind of approach. We're in the beginning stages of trying to figure out what makes sense in specific kinds of circumstances.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Is that holistic approach being taken throughout Canada as far as you're aware?
4:30 p.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
No, it's definitely not. We still tend to be very much focused on the individual as opposed to even the couple. As I say, we are starting to see these glimmers of hope in some communities. For example, within first nations communities, we're beginning to see some glimmers of trying to use a different kind of approach, because what we were offering before wasn't making sense.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon) Conservative Tilly O'Neill-Gordon
Ms. McDonald, do you have a comment?
4:30 p.m.
Scientific Director, National Initiative for the Care of the Elderly
I just want to add that I think part of the problem is in rural areas. I live in a huge city, and I train social workers, and they work with the police, nursing, medicine, and even the coroner. It's not always about the victim. It's more about how we can keep this person in their home and how we can keep an eye on them as much as we can to make sure they're there. I've seen a lot of service across Canada that tries to do that.
As to whether it's well funded, I agree with Charmaine that there's no way it is. We need more resources to support it, but it's the best way to do it. Gerontology, by definition, is interdisciplinary. There's no way around it.
4:30 p.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
I would just reinforce Lynn's comments that the multidisciplinary approach has gained a lot of prominence in this area, but “multidisciplinary” has typically tended to mean social work and health working together in most communities. Some cities are able to have other key players to help, sometimes with the individual and sometimes with family more broadly.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon) Conservative Tilly O'Neill-Gordon
I want to thank you very much for being here with us this afternoon. We are about to take about a two-minute break to let our witnesses leave and have our new witnesses arrive.
Thank you very much.
4:41 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Tilly O'Neill Gordon) Conservative Tilly O'Neill-Gordon
I will ask you to return to your seats so we can listen to our new witnesses.
First of all, I want to welcome Josette and Barb to our session here this afternoon. Thank you for being with us. It is a topic that is very dear to all of our hearts.
I will ask you to begin.