Evidence of meeting #57 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workplace.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Okay. Could I ask you the same thing, Madam Turtle?
You mentioned to us that you have found an effective way of educating the workplace and problems tend not to arise. I'm just wondering what kind of quantification you can give us. Have these communications programs and awareness programs worked? How do you assess that?
12:35 p.m.
Canadian Counsel, United Steelworkers
We know that the programs haven't eradicated harassment completely because we have incidents that occur. We have staff members in our national office and trained people at our district level and activists at the local level inside the workplace who from time to time are engaged in addressing disputes and resolving them.
We know that our proactive efforts to educate and resolve disputes early on are not 100% effective because those people are involved in dealing with harassment from time to time. However, we also believe very strongly that our education efforts and our early intervention efforts have reduced the incidences of harassment below what they would otherwise be. It's obviously not possible—
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Surely you have some way of quantifying that if you can make that statement to us, though. I'm not trying to put you overly on the spot, but one of the things we need to know is how big the problem is. We are here to listen.
12:35 p.m.
Canadian Counsel, United Steelworkers
I'm happy to do my best to quantify that. I don't have the numbers with me now, but I can tell you that the Steelworkers have worked very hard for many years to eradicate harassment. We haven't succeeded in that objective because we still have incidents of harassment, but we do believe that our efforts in every workplace to educate, train and address situations early have been effective.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Thank you again for being here today. It was very informative.
Because you have so much information to provide to us, I was wondering if I could ask you a few global questions. If we don't get your answers today, as my colleague, Ms. Crockatt was saying, you could supply the clerk and us with that information in written form sometime before the study is over. Would that be possible?
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
That would be great.
My question is around these numbers, of course, which are troubling because we don't have them. My question is also around a public service employee survey that previous witnesses from the Public Service Alliance mentioned. In the survey employees said there was a high incidence that when they were harassed, they were actually harassed by a co-worker. Given that scenario and the fact that they're both union members and that you're representing both sides, how does the union handle that? What processes do you work through with them, given that you're in this bit of a conflict situation representing both sides?
I'd like to also hear something about the fact that in the information that we received, and which I read, you were saying that you want to maintain the workplace, you want to maintain those workers in the workplace, and that you would prefer, of course, to do training in other things rather than let these workers go, etc., but at what point in time does that happen, or should that happen? We certainly heard from witnesses earlier that it should happen more. How do you, as a union, deal with this very difficult and sensitive situation?
12:40 p.m.
Canadian Counsel, United Steelworkers
Okay.
As I indicated in my submission, the union does—
12:40 p.m.
Canadian Counsel, United Steelworkers
Sure.
You raised conflict. In fact, if there is an instance of worker harassment, we try to intervene early to resolve the issue in a way that is mutually satisfactory to both parties and in a way that results in education not just to the parties to the harassment but to the whole workplace. In those circumstances, potentially there is no conflict.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Given the short timeframe, may I just interject, because the survey did indicate that fully 50% of the workers say it's worker-to-worker conflict. We're not just talking about isolated one-off cases here.
Maybe we can speak to Mr. Sharma, then, because we've only got 30 seconds left, and get his perspective on this.
12:40 p.m.
Director of Human Rights, Canadian Auto Workers
Yes.
In cases where it is a co-worker, we follow the same procedure. Both sides are represented. Once an investigation is done, if it is a formal one and there are no grey areas, in some cases, yes, there is some sort of discipline. Our key mandate is to build the workplace culture. If you just have a crime and punishment kind of remedy, it does not build the respectable workplace culture and these things can keep on happening with different folks at different times.
We definitely try to build that culture and also ensure that if there is discipline in some cases, it is reasonable.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Marie-Claude Morin
Mr. Sharma, unfortunately, I have to interrupt you.
Ms. Sgro, you have the floor for seven minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Thank you both very much for being here and helping us with the study that we're doing.
First on the issue of the women's advocate, and Mr. Sharma was the one who spoke most about it, I applaud the initiative. I think it's quite interesting to have someone specifically for those issues. The 252 that you have, are they all in very large companies that have taken up that challenge to have a women's advocate?
12:40 p.m.
Director of Human Rights, Canadian Auto Workers
No, they're not. Quite a few of them are in large companies, but they're also in very small workplaces. It's bargained in the sense that if they are large workplaces, they are either full time or they get more time to do this job as part of their normal work, but in smaller workplaces they get less time. Also, depending on how many women are in that workplace, they may have more time.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
12:40 p.m.
Director of Human Rights, Canadian Auto Workers
Yes, and then they are specifically trained. The employer actually pays for the training. It's a joint training. The employer also provides a liaison, who is female, who works with them. They work together closely. In many cases there are men who have issues. They go to them as well, and they would help them if they do.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Yes, that would be an equal issue. How do you in your position know how many complaints there have been through the various women's advocates in other areas of launching a complaint? How does that circle get up to you so that you would be able to say you've had 15 issues raised and resolved in the last year?
12:45 p.m.
Director of Human Rights, Canadian Auto Workers
Within the CAW we have what we call the national human rights department, which is the department that I work in. We also have the national women's department. My colleague Julie White, who couldn't be here today, heads that. She works closely with all of the women's advocates and she keeps all of that information. That's why I have said that we could probably provide you with that information at a later date.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
On the joint anti-harassment committee process chart that you supplied to us, there are a fair amount of steps. Are there timelines as well associated with these charts? You wanted to elaborate a bit on it as well, so I will give you that opportunity to do that now.
12:45 p.m.
Director of Human Rights, Canadian Auto Workers
Okay, sure. The timelines are as soon as a written complaint comes into the committee, they need to deal with it quickly; in most cases, we say within five working days. They will appoint the parties to do the investigation. The investigation has to be done as quickly as possible and resolved within 10 working days in most cases. There could be some issues where there is more involved, and with mutual agreement of the committee, they could extend those timelines. Timelines are a key factor. People's memories fade over time and they hear other things, and they change their view or outlook, and that could reflect in their witnesses and so on. We definitely want to make sure that it's dealt with as quickly as possible and not be so bureaucratic. Even though you see a lot of steps, if you really follow it, there are not that many. It's a very good floor and it works almost every time. There are very rare cases that after this process somebody is not satisfied and they go to the human rights tribunal or the commission.