Status of Women Committee on Feb. 14th, 2013

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I'm sorry. My notes say you're the RCMP witness.

[Robin Kers]

As a labour relations officer with the Union of Solicitor General Employees, part of my mandate is to represent public servants in western and northern Canada working for the RCMP.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

So part of your mandate is to represent public servants in western and northern Canada who work with the RCMP.

[Robin Kers]

That's correct.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

So you do represent public servants who work for the RCMP.

[Robin Kers]

And a number of other departments.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

As well as other departments.

The question that was asked, which I guess is reasonable, was about how, if somebody starts a career as a kindergarten teacher, they have different workplace requirements from a person who works in the RCMP. In terms of the expectation, do you find when you're helping your staff that they feel their expectations of what was proposed in working with the RCMP are completely different?

[Robin Kers]

I would have to say that any female wishing to work for any department or government organization in Canada would have an expectation that they can do their jobs free of any form of harassment.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That's applicable to the males as well.

[Robin Kers]

Yes, but we are dealing with the issue of the status of women and sexual harassment in the federal workplace, so my comments would be focused primarily on my understanding and my dealing with female members who we represent.

I can tell you, were my daughters to join the federal workplace, their expectation would be that they would be able to work, advance their career, and provide a valuable service to the citizens of Canada without having to constantly worry about a variety of forms of harassment.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That's our hope too.

Just to clarify, sir, we are very clear, at least on this side of the table, that we don't want harassment, be it normal harassment or sexual harassment, for female employees in the public service or for male employees. That certainly is possible both ways, and we don't want that to ever happen. So both parties are part of this examination, without question.

In terms of the assistance, I'd like to find out how you train your employees to be aware. What do you invest in the training, and how do you prepare your employees so they can not only expect a workplace free of harassment, but contribute to the creation of a workplace free of harassment?

[Robin Kers]

Just to clarify, these people are not my employees. They are the members of the union that I happen to work for.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

They pay dues and you help them, don't you?

[Robin Kers]

But just to be clear, they're not my employees.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

What kind of training is there? They are all privileged to get training in the Public Service of Canada. What kind of training are they provided to not only protect them from harassment but to ensure that they contribute to a workplace that is free of harassment?

[Robin Kers]

I have to back up a step and tell you that the nature of my work is that I'm involved in national labour-management consultation and national policy health and safety consultation with a number of different departments, including the RCMP. As a consequence, my work with the department relates to consultation and development of policies, including harassment policies, violence in the workplace policies, and so on and so forth.

The influence that the bargaining agent or the unions have is in providing their input to the consultative process when dealing with the employer. The corollary influence at the work site, where we direct our presentation for our membership, is that we advise and counsel and ensure that in that particular work site people are receiving the training that the department suggests all employees should receive on the subject of harassment.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

In your view, is the training...?

Madam Chair, is my time up?

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

You have one minute left.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In your view, do your charges receive adequate training as new employees?

[Robin Kers]

It depends upon the department, the region, and the location.

In fairness to all departments, they try to have current harassment policies and current training plans, but the reality is that with the fiscal restraints, I've found over the years when I was a public servant and find now as a bargaining agent representative that quite often the financial cost of training is a factor that's considered by departments, and I'm not entirely—

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Do you, sir, have an example of a department that you serve that has cut training on harassment in the last year? Do you have an example of this?

[Robin Kers]

I don't have an example of a department that has cut training costs—

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

So is this is just hypothetical—conjecture?

[Robin Kers]

Well, no, the fact of the matter is that you don't have to cut; you can also not schedule.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

But you just told me, sir, that you don't have the facts to support the cuts.