Evidence of meeting #23 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was children.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steph Guthrie  Social Justice Advocate, As an Individual
Ann Decter  Director, Advocacy and Public Policy, YWCA Canada
Raine Liliefeldt  Director of Member Services and Development, YWCA Canada
Lianna McDonald  Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection
Signy Arnason  Director, Cybertip.ca, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

I think we all have a dream for that sort of idea as well. How can we reach those accomplishments? Would it be something through the federal government? Would we have organizations like the YWCA and other cross-country organizations work together to do this? What is the solution to make sure that we're educating our parents, and what do you think is the first step to do so?

4:25 p.m.

Director of Member Services and Development, YWCA Canada

Raine Liliefeldt

The first step?

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

And the second, third, or fourth.

4:25 p.m.

Director, Advocacy and Public Policy, YWCA Canada

Ann Decter

I think the work that Raine is doing, bringing together the sector, is really important. You can tell just from the ideas she had that it requires those of us with some knowledge of what's happening in the field and then the big commercial companies that everyone's buying their devices from. For us to help with that, we would need some federal government funding, but it's those kinds of partnerships.

Also, I think that the federal government should be looking at organizing something like the ICT round table that Raine has convened.

We saw what happened when Facebook was at the CRTC. That's not the venue; it has to be co-operative. The way we do it is to be co-operative and collaborative. Those should begin to exist.

In a way, the Internet providers and social media are immature industries. We have to help them grow up and behave like the rest of society so that they understand that these things are okay but these other things are not okay, and we're all going to agree not to do them.

We need help with that, and I think the federal government can lead on it without punitive measures.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

That would be the leadership role, taking on—

4:25 p.m.

A voice

Yes.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Okay.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

That's our time.

Anyway, thank you very much. All of you who are our witnesses here today did a fabulous job of sharing your ideas.

Now we're going to suspend for two minutes while we set up the next witness panel. We'll start sharp at 4:30 p.m.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

We are ready to go with our second panel today.

With us we have, from the Canadian Centre for Child Protection, Lianna McDonald, who's the executive director, and we also have Signy Arnason, who is a director as well, but is also experienced in Cybertip, which we heard about last week when we had the RCMP with us.

Lianna will start off and give an overview, and then we'll have Signy give us 10 minutes, then Lianna can finish up with the rest of her 10 minutes, and then we'll go to our questions.

Take it away, Lianna.

4:25 p.m.

Lianna McDonald Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

Good afternoon, everybody.

What a very important opportunity for us, and I thank you so much. I know you're coming to the end of your day, so hopefully we will engage in a good conversation about the work of our organization.

This worked out very well. We do many presentations on this issue of online child sexual abuse and exploitation, and have over the course of many years, but today, because of the way this is rolling, I wanted to give you a little background about who we are. Then Signy is going to jump in and talk specifically about what we see day in and day out through the work of Cybertip.ca, and then I am going to talk about industry.

It was perfect timing for us to hear the last presenters talk about some of those important questions that you were asking about the role of the private sector, and I will speak to that. Then I will conclude with roughly five pointed recommendations for your considerations.

We will start with you, Signy.

4:25 p.m.

Signy Arnason Director, Cybertip.ca, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

Good afternoon. My name is Signy Arnason. I'm the associate executive director of the Canadian Centre for Child Protection as well as the director of Cybertip.ca.

As Lianna mentioned, we're a national charity dedicated to the personal safety of children. The Canadian Centre for Child Protection provides programs and services to the Canadian public, one of which includes Cybertip.ca, which is Canada's tip line for reporting the online sexual exploitation of children.

During its 14 years of operation, the tip line has processed over 200,000 reports from the public. Over 90% of those pertain to concerns regarding child sexual abuse images and videos, what is otherwise known as child pornography.

Child pornography involves the recording of a child being sexually exploited or abused. The image or video becomes a permanent record of the child's abuse and can propagate indefinitely. In order to produce the image, a child has to be assaulted or posed deliberately in a sexualized way.

We release studies every few years. In January 2016 we released a report that was an overview of reports to the tip line over the last eight years, and we had a particular focus on child sexual abuse images. The report examined close to 44,000 unique images and videos classified by the tip line as child pornography.

This report provides important insight about child sexual abuse and the abusive acts these offenders are perpetrating against children. The harsh reality is that young girls are disproportionately represented in these images, since 80% of the children in the imagery are female. Of that number, 79% of them appear to be prepubescent—under the age of 12—and of that number, about 65% are under the age of 8.

The abuse depicted in the images is severe. Fifty per cent of the images assessed by analysts involve either sexual assaults or extreme sexual assaults. Additionally, there is alarming concern that as the age of the child decreases, analysts are more likely to see sexual assaults being committed against the child. When babies and toddlers are seen in imagery, 60% of the abuse perpetrated against that child involves either a sexual assault or an extreme sexual assault.

There are also a disproportionate number of men who appear in the images depicting child sexual abuse. As assessed by analysts, 83% had a male visible in the image. When only an adult male is visible with the child in the child sexual abuse content, 97% of the content involves either a sexual assault or extreme sexual assault.

Cybertip.ca also receives reports from Canadians on sexualized child modelling. Sexualized child modelling occurs on sites that portray images of children who are fully or partially clothed, have been deliberately posed in a highly sexualized way, and who are not marketing any specific product or service other than the child herself or himself. The tip line started classifying this category of websites and images in 2006. While the current definition of child pornography in Canada is broad enough to capture the most egregious of sexualized child modelling pictures under the Criminal Code definition, the majority would fall outside of it.

In the last three years, the tip line has analyzed close to 50,000 sexualized child modelling images. In the past year, analysts assessed 20,000 such images, with 92% of them involving girls. The majority of children in these images are prepubescent—76% of them—and they are deliberately posed in a sexual manner 40% of the time. Thong underwear, high heels, and knee-high stockings are some of the most popular garments observed on the children in these images. Ten per cent of the time, sexualized child modelling images are found on adult pornography sites, which sends the message that children, particularly girls, are sexual commodities. These sites negatively impact societal beliefs and attitudes towards children by showcasing them as sexual objects and normalizing a sexual interest in children.

In addition, as identified through various tip lines around the world that do work similar to what Cybertip.ca does, there have been numerous cases in which children identified in child sexual abuse imagery first appeared in sexualized child modelling images. These images arguably assist in fuelling the demand for illegal images among adults who have a sexual interest in children. In short, the hypersexualization of young girls in the form of sexualized child modelling poses a serious risk to children's personal safety and security.

When it comes to cyberviolence, we know that women and girls are particularly vulnerable. In some cases, the violence comes at the hands of an adult, and in other cases it comes at the hands of peers. When cyberviolence is perpetrated by adults, it often manifests itself online as luring or sextortion.

Cybertip.ca has seen a worrying rise in teenagers reporting cases of sextortion surrounding live streaming with adults posing as teenagers. Within platforms that allow users to communicate by video, offenders often secretly record teenagers. They typically deceive the children about their identity and then manipulate them into sharing further sexual images or videos.

The tip line is now receiving at least 15 reports a month dealing with online extortion, where the youth either has paid money to have the threats stop or has been asked to produce more sexual images to send to the offender and in some capacity has complied. While that number may not seem significant, we know it's the tip of the iceberg. The majority of these reports, 70%, involve girls.

When cyberviolence is perpetrated by peers, it often takes the form of sexting and cyberbullying. Developmentally, youth seek independence, place peer relationships over parents, exhibit attention-seeking behaviour, and crave acceptance, all of which are normal developmental milestones. They are also willing to take on more risk in exploring their sexuality, without realizing the long-term consequences of their behaviour.

When these typical adolescent attributes are combined with the ever-present availability of technology and the permanent nature of digital images, it is easy to see that there is a perfect storm for sexual harm, especially for teen girls.

Girls also face the additional layer of harm that comes from shaming when sexual images and videos circulate among peers. There still exists the social stigma that women and girls are somehow acting inappropriately if they go against traditional expectations tied to sexual behaviour. We need to challenge attitudes and beliefs that relate to victim blaming and degrading sexual labels if we are to change the damage being done to youth—something that the tip line intersects with on a daily basis.

In closing, our organization witnesses, day in and day out, the prevalence of violence and abuse being perpetrated against children, particularly girls. Cybertip.ca currently receives an average of 3,300 reports per month, and we only see that number rising in the future. The evolving advantage of technology, combined with the shield of anonymity, has resulted in the offending community having an enormous advantage in exploiting the innocence and vulnerability of children, and our statistics reflect that reality.

My colleague will speak to our recommendations for action at the end of her speech.

I thank the committee members for their time and attention.

4:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

Lianna McDonald

Just to follow up on Signy's comments, I have a couple of things that I did not mention, just so everybody is clear.

Our organization is independent of government and police. We are a charitable organization, a non-partisan organization. We work very closely not only with a variety of stakeholders but also with provincial governments in navigating some unique options when we're looking at regulations or other remedies that we can move forward on in terms of the protection of our children.

Again, as mentioned, I am the executive director of the Canadian Centre for Child Protection and I was really asked to come here today to talk a little bit about industry.

I understand that Leah Parsons and Carol Todd were both here. Our organization worked very closely following the deaths of their children and with numerous other families. We work, so you're clear, day in and day out. It's very different from some of the academics. While everything we present will be evidence-based, and we provide the statistics, as Signy has alluded to, our organization really works in the trenches. We work first-hand with families. We work first-hand with youth who are contacting us because they have been negatively impacted by a sexual violence situation.

I'm going to spend a few minutes talking about the way in which our organization collaborates with industry and addressing what we all know is their shared responsibility in addressing the online sexual exploitation of children. Then I'm going to move on to a couple of other areas that I think are very relevant to the conversation you are all having.

We certainly believe that protecting children from online sexual exploitation and bringing those who victimize children to justice require the collaborative approach that I've just mentioned. It is not enough to say this is just a police problem; we're not going to arrest our way out of it. This isn't just an industry responsibility, and it isn't us putting all the onus on parents, who then have to take full responsibility when they didn't sign up to figure out, as every age milestone is hit, how they can keep their kids safe. It is certainly something that not only Canada but all nations are significantly wrestling with.

What has happened? A number of years ago we set up the Canadian Coalition Against Internet Child Exploitation. We abbreviate that as CCAICE. Basically it is a voluntary group of private and public sector entities that work to look at ways that we can take on the war of child pornography and child sexual exploitation. We established this organization back in 2004. Its mandate is to examine and provide tangible solutions to reducing online sexual exploitation of children. Again I have to underscore that this really fits into this dilemma we have when we look at public safety versus competing priorities on privacy. This is a voluntary group coming together to work together. We come together one to two times a year.

Essentially the catalyst of this coalition coming together was the abduction and subsequent murder, which many of you will remember, of a 10-year-old girl named Holly Jones in Toronto. That time was sort of the genesis of the Internet; everything was exploding. Mr. Briere was the man who took her. She was basically a victim of opportunity. What he did talk about and admit in the court process was that he had been viewing child pornography, and basically she was essentially a victim of opportunity. That resulted in industry stepping up and understanding—even though we look at the telcos as the pipes and the content providers—that they needed to be at the table.

Over the past 12 years that we have been operating the coalition, we have had some significant results, and it is very important that you hear and have the opportunity to digest some of those successes, because Canada certainly has been doing some innovative work in leading the way. At the same time, we're not patting ourselves on the back and saying more does not need to be done. We recognize that.

One of our biggest achievements was Cleanfeed Canada, back in 2006. It is an initiative that aims to reduce Canadians' exposure to what we call child pornography or child abuse images, and it creates a disincentive for those who access and distribute such images by preventing Canadian customers from viewing non-Canadian websites that are hosting child abuse images. To date we have had nearly 30,000 total URLs added to Cleanfeed. Participating Internet service providers prevent customers from accessing an average 600 websites at any given moment in connection with the Cleanfeed list, a list that we maintain. We verify that the images within that list are typically prepubescent children, and day in and day out we stop Canadians from gaining access to that content.

What we know is that 80% of the content features young girls, so again this is an important tool in addressing this unique problem.

Cleanfeed is one of the most important examples of CCAICE looking at worldwide solutions. We are, and always will be, working with other governments looking at innovative solutions. We know we're not going to arrest our way out of it and we know this is a serious problem. For this committee, in looking at the concept of gender-based violence, we really have to look at the continuum. It starts with very young girls and goes all the way up the line. The Internet has really, as Signy said, created this perfect storm.

We also worked with police to create what we're calling the LER, the law enforcement request letter. The LER was used at a pre-warrant stage in relation to police obtaining Internet subscriber and address information. As mentioned, anonymity creates a very serious problem when police can see a very disturbing activity going on but do not have enough information to get a warrant. This whole process was successful up to and until the Spencer decision, which many of you may be aware of.

We have been working very long and hard. The coalition meets regularly, and I hope you're aware of the introduction in 2011 of the mandatory reporting of Internet child pornography by persons who provide an Internet service. Providers are required to notify law enforcement and, in some specific incidences, our agency if they're notified of an incident concerning Internet child pornography. Law enforcement in Canada receive the bulk of this information today.

Also, what we will say for sure is that industry has been very open. We were listening to the previous presenters in terms of what can the telcos do. They are very engaged. To date we've carried out 15 national campaigns with many of the providers in terms of public education about reporting and the importance of reporting. We are working with some of those companies in connection with people signing up for new technology, such as a new phone, and knowing what the developmental milestones are. We have to look at it from a relevant age perspective in terms of educating them and arming their parents, which is an ongoing challenge.

These are some of the things right now that industry is doing. We recognize it is a moving dialogue with the various electronic service providers and Internet service providers that make up some of the content about what their role may be in this complicated space.

There are a couple of things I wanted to raise to the committee that tie directly into what you're looking at. In May 2016 our organization released preliminary findings on a report we have on our site, and all of you can grab it. We have an executive summary as well as a very comprehensive piece on Abducted Then Murdered Children: A Canadian Study. Basically, we wanted to look historically at all cases of Canadian children under the age of 16. This is quite distinct from the murdered and missing aboriginal indigenous women and children issue.

We looked at all Canadian children from when CPIC began to gain insight into the children who were being abducted and the histories of the offenders and to identify intervention and prevention strategies. These findings are available on our site, and I welcome you to all take a look at them.

There are two last things I want to mention. One is that we are right now conducting the first international survey of the first generation of victims of child pornography since the onset of the Internet. Many of these victims are now 22 and upwards. We are meeting with an international working group here in Ottawa next week and we'll be looking at that.

Finally, I want to close with five specific recommendations.

The first is that we encourage the committee to continue to support our organization, which the Government of Canada has done, in our efforts to identify and rescue more victims found in child abuse material and to increase public awareness of this problem.

Second, we would like the support for our agency in becoming that unique resource centre assisting victims whose child sexual abuse has been recorded and currently is being distributed on the Internet.

Third, and perhaps more importantly, we would like you to consider legislation that targets communications and recordings that advocate harm to children. We are talking beyond child pornography, because that is covered. We mean the depictions of violent sexual abuse by adults, the sexual commodification of children, the marketing of children as sexual objects, and communications within those pedophile networks that normalize the distorted sexual views of children and guide members on how to create pretenses to gain access to them.

Fourth, we ask you to support efforts related to gender-specific education. With the overrepresentation of girls in imagery, we would like supplementary educational material that helps children understand what is not normal, what to do about child sexual abuse, and what action to take.

Finally, the issue of cyberviolence against girls should be considered as a precursor to cyberviolence against women. For example, the way in which it is experienced, the impact of victimization, and the available tactics and remedies that may be available could be much broader for girls, given their status as children. In addition, the protected status of children, as reflected in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and the Sale of Children, Child Prostitution, and Child Pornography must be part of the consideration and evaluation.

In closing, we thank you very much for the opportunity to throw all this at you, and we welcome any questions you may have.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Thank you very much.

This is wonderful information. I know we're going to have a great session of questions.

We're going to start with seven minutes from Ms. Nassif.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the two witnesses for their participation in our work.

I represent the riding of Vimy in Laval. There's a non-profit organization there called the Centre des femmes de Laval, which helps vulnerable women using the financial means it has. The women are mainly from ethnic minorities, members of the LGBT community and newcomers.

I have attended several meetings and heard many sad stories. I know that you work more with girls who have experienced online violence and so on. Are there other organizations in Quebec, especially in Laval, working in this area?

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Is there any translation?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

Lianna McDonald

I can speak French, but I'm more comfortable in English.

Yes, we do have....

Certainly we are a bilingual organization. A number of reports come to us from Quebec. We work with the SQ and all the Quebec police agencies.

We consider ourselves a bit of a broker. People who are dealing with very serious issues who need grassroots organizations there to support them, so we work with a number of organizations in Quebec that support families who are dealing with a continuum of issues. Again, so that we are clear, we focus primarily on children. Our work is within that context. We deal with families of missing children and exploited children.

The Marie-Vincent Foundation would be one of the great organizations we deal with in Quebec, as well as Enfants-Retour. There are a number of organizations. Depending on the unique requirements of the individuals who come to us, we would triage them and put them in touch with those entities.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

There have been a number of cases reported recently in Laval of girls who have run away to join child pornography organizations. Are you aware of this?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

Lianna McDonald

Yes, we are. Beyond working directly with families who come in, we are the front door and the clearing house.

In French, it's called Cyberaide.ca. A lot of people go

to Cyberaide and make reports.

Over and above that, we work closely and specifically with the police agencies. There's a continuum of support that victims may need. I mentioned the survey of the first generation of victims of child pornography. We have a number of reports that have come in exactly from what you're talking about, which we would define as “organized abuse”. That's abuse by multiple offenders committing crimes against either one group or multiple groups of children.

We probably have the most robust data in the reporting that we receive and in the detailed information pertaining to the victims themselves. One of the things we're trying to do as an organization is look at some of the ways in which the policing community needs to be better resourced to address some of these crimes and also some of the ongoing remedies for victims who have unique needs.

If a person has experienced, let's say, an incident of a severe sexual assault, that is a historic incident. There was no recording of that abuse. but it's still traumatic. What we're hearing from the population you're referring to is that because of the propagation and the ongoing distribution of the material, their past is their present. They need ongoing support. This is a very big and serious issue that we have to look at in a much broader scope than we could have ever imagined.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Madam Chair, do I have time to ask some more questions?

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Yes.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Okay. Thank you.

Your principal activities include best practices research activities to ensure the safety of children.

Could you tell us a bit about some research activities related to protecting young women and girls from cyberviolence that we could draw information from and use to base a government initiative on, in terms of both prevention and reaction?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

Lianna McDonald

Thank you for that.

I've talked a lot about intervention. Fifty per cent of our mandate is prevention and education. In the social value reports that we have distributed, you will see a lot of programming.

To your question about education, we recently created a site and a resource that has probably been our most taken up resource. It is called NeedHelpNow. It allows any young person who has been negatively affected by a sexual picture or action to come in and understand what they can do, what safe adults are available, and how they can get the content down. This whole idea that it's permanent and it's never going anywhere is not necessarily true. There are a number of steps that can be taken to start mitigating those challenges. That is one such resource. It has been taken up right across the country. School resource officers right across the country are using it, and educators right across the country are using it as well.

Then we have two other resources. One deals with the complicated issue of the age of consent and the age of protection. As we can all imagine, young people experience confusion about sexual development. We have adolescent brain development and the party mix and technology coming together. We've created programs that have been tested and piloted, and I'm happy to provide the committee with any of the evaluations that we do with our programs—

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

That's time.

We go to Ms. Vecchio, and if Ms. Vecchio wants to follow up, then that will be fine.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Thank you very much. Those were tremendous presentations from both of you today, and I greatly appreciate them.

Signy, you were talking about sexual predators, which is of great concern for many of us, and then going into the age group when children and young girls are showing their independence by doing posing and things like that. This is where we left off in the last conversation about when it becomes consensual for them.

What is that? I know there's not a “miracle age”, but what are we looking at between something like child exploitation and their giving consent? What is that age in which we can expect those changes?

September 28th, 2016 / 5 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection

Lianna McDonald

I'm going to add a couple of things.

The answer is, very simply, it all depends, and there is no answer.

It depends on the imbalance of power, the power relationship, what they're doing, and the influences surrounding what's happening. We have laws that address some aspects. We have built-in age exemptions that allow for healthy sexual exploration. We don't want kids not to be sexual. They're sexual as they become adolescents. It's about looking at some of the considerations.

I think this is an area that the government can look at carefully. How do we understand this? What are the ways that we need to start educating kids?

Start to get into the resources that we've created. We do it through scenarios. We'll list out that a 16-year-old and a 14-year-old are at a party, and here's the scene that unfolds, here's what happens. They really have to do some critical problem-solving.