Status of Women Committee on April 9th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to meeting number 102 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

I will make a few comments for the benefit of members and witnesses. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For those participating by video conference, make sure your microphone is unmuted before speaking, and make sure it is muted when you're not speaking. For those in the room, make sure your microphones are off; I've got this new button that can turn you all off, so you had better be careful.

Although this room is equipped with powerful audio, I just want to remind everybody to not put earpieces near the microphones, for the safety of our translators.

Today, we'll have one panel of four, and we'll be going from 11 a.m. until 12:20 p.m.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, November 27, 2023, the committee will resume its study on the implementation of the red dress alert.

As a reminder for you, today’s format will be extended until 12:20, and then the committee will adjourn, so we're probably looking at about four rounds today.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses.

As an individual, by video conference, we have Mitch Bourbonniere.

Thank you, Mitch, for joining us.

From the Native Council of Nova Scotia, we have Lorraine Augustine, who is the president and chief.

Thank you so much for being with us in person.

From Quebec Native Women Inc., we have Marjolaine Étienne, who is the president; she, too, is appearing by video conference. Finally, by video conference, from Women of the Métis Nation, we have Melanie Omeniho.

We will begin with opening statements. I will ask you to wrap up at the five-minute mark; you might take up to an extra 10 seconds, but we try to keep our time tight.

I'm going to begin by turning it over to Mitch.

Mitch, you have five minutes.

[Mitch Bourbonniere, Community Helper, As an Individual]

My name is Mitch Bourbonniere, and I'm joining you from Winnipeg, Manitoba, where I live and work. I sit on the homeland of the Anishinabe, the Cree, the Oji-Cree, the Dakota, the Dene and the Red River Métis.

I am involved with the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and two-spirit people. I have volunteered for several years for a group called Drag the Red. We search the Red River in Winnipeg for evidence of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. It is heavy work. It is emotional work. I regularly help women leaders in Winnipeg in doing land searches and in helping with vigils and other events involved with this issue. I organize and participate in seven different community walks per week, where we patrol the neighbourhoods of the inner city of Winnipeg.

I'm also involved in the issue of missing and murdered indigenous men and boys. This Father's Day will mark our seventh annual walk and honouring day for missing and murdered indigenous men and boys in Winnipeg. I run two mens' programs—one in Winnipeg, and one in Fox Lake Cree Nation. These programs are meant to help heal men and to rid our nations of toxic masculinity, and to honour women and girls as life-givers and matriarchs. I have been invited to other first nation communities to advise local men on starting their own groups.

Me and some of the men I work with are often called upon by women in the community who need protection and safety as they pack up their children and belongings to leave an abusive situation. We will sit on each side of that man as he watches his family pack up to leave. We will turn to him and say, “If you truly want to work at ever getting your family back, you need to come with us and do the hard work that it's going to take to heal yourself and rid yourself of the toxicity that was programmed into you growing up.” Lots of our men were little boys who watched their mothers get terrorized. They felt helpless to protect their mothers, yet it became so normal growing up that they fell into the same behaviour as young men and men. We tap into the little boy who was horrified by the violence.

In terms of the search for missing indigenous women and girls, we consistently network with various community groups in Winnipeg, especially when particularly urgent situations of missing indigenous women arise. The groups I regularly consult with include the Bear Clan, CommUNITY204, the Sabe Peace Walkers, Anishiative and the Downtown Community Safety Partnership.

In terms of the red dress alert, I am so thankful that there are those working to make this a reality. I hope and expect that the families of those who have lost or are missing an indigenous woman or girl will be involved and consulted with. I would also love to see a local and national command centre, with dedicated full-time paid staff around the clock, where community helpers like us can communicate with experts around this issue on an ongoing basis.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for your testimony. We really appreciate it.

I'm going to pass it over to the Native Council of Nova Scotia. Lorraine, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Chief Lorraine Augustine, President and Chief, Native Council of Nova Scotia]

Thank you.

First of all, I want to thank the committee for giving me this opportunity to speak against the red dress alert system.

My name, as you know, is Lorraine Augustine. I'm the chief and president of the Native Council of Nova Scotia, which represents the off-reserve and the non-status in the province. We will be celebrating the 50th anniversary of the organization in September.

I don't have speaking notes to pass out. I don't normally speak from a speech, but I did make some notes.

One thing that concerns me with the red dress alert is who's going to administer it. When it comes to an alert like this, it really needs to be about the women. I can't stress this enough. When it comes to government policy, government legislation or anything that's going on, it always seems to be about organizations or it always seems to be about the so-called “section 35 rights holders”.

If we really look at the Constitution, section 35 talks nothing about rights. It just talks about who an aboriginal person is within Canada.

I have to reiterate the fact that it's our indigenous women who need to be protected. I'm telling you that you have a long road ahead of you when it comes to developing this red dress alert.

Who's going to administer it? I believe it should be the indigenous people.

Is it going to be put off by a time frame? There have to be specific guidelines issued in order to implement this.

When it comes to the RCMP or the policing, I can almost guarantee you that a lot of the women will not call. They're afraid. Our women have been taken by policemen and murdered and raped. That's the reality.

When we're going to develop any kind of alert system, we have to really be sure who is going to be administering this. From my perspective, it needs to be the indigenous organizations. If it's going to be the policing, then they have to have indigenous women or indigenous employees to administer this.

In terms of the system you're talking about, is there going to be a time frame?

Specific guidelines need to be developed. Are we going to wait 24 hours or 48 hours? Our women could be lying in a ditch by then. We need to be very cognizant of the time and the guidelines on who and when to report on the missing and murdered.

In terms of the red dress system and the public helping our indigenous women, that's going to take some time. As a matter of fact, it's going to take a lot of time. When it comes to our indigenous women, as opposed to a non-indigenous woman who is missing or murdered.... They're right on it. When it comes to our indigenous women, sometimes they just shrug their shoulders and say, “It's just another Indian.” It's going to take a lot of work in order for us to be out there.

Is the alert system going to be similar to the Amber alert? Is it going to be immediate? Who is going to be allowed to report that?

I...envy the work you're going to be doing because it's going to be a long road to get this system up and running properly.

Keep in mind that it's not about organizations. It's not about the national organizations out there or the women's.... It's our women. We need to include our women. We have to include our indigenous women and protect them.

There has to be more than just the red alert system. We have to look at prevention. The system, to start...prevention is really important as well.

I guess I've been given the signal, so I'll stop for now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for your powerful testimony.

I am now going to pass it over to the Quebec Native Women Inc. and Marjolaine.

Marjolaine, online, you have five minutes.

Right now I think Marjolaine has her headset off. I'm going to turn it over to Melanie for her five minutes.

Melanie, please take the floor for five minutes.

[Melanie Omeniho, President, Women of the Métis Nation]

Good morning.

My name is Melanie Omeniho, and I am president of Les Femmes Michif Otipemisiwak.

I'd like to acknowledge that I'm joining you today from Treaty 6 territory and the home of the motherland of the Métis Nation.

LFMO is the national indigenous women's organization that represents the voice of Métis women from across the Métis nation motherland.

We advocate nationally and internationally for equal treatment, health and well-being of all Métis people, with a focus on the rights, needs and priorities of Métis women, youth, children and 2SLGBTQQIA+ persons.

LFMO envisions a wider alert system that prioritizes first and foremost indigenous women, youth and 2SLGBTQ+ persons who are at risk of going missing, experiencing gender-based violence and femicide. We can do this by centring the living experiences of the most vulnerable in our communities, because there is too much inequity and oppression within the structures that exist. They include indigenous women, girls and gender-diverse persons who are already subject to missing persons reporting and those who are likely to be subject to a red dress alert. This will ensure a more effective and timely response that is respectful of privacy and self-determination and does not further endanger people nor be weaponized against them.

In addition to operating from an indigenous-led initiative and opening space for grassroots leadership grounded in community needs, the alert must include mechanisms wherein persons who may be subject to the alert can speak back or provide feedback about the process, including what has been helpful and what has been harmful. This feedback must also be used to generate improvements to the overall system. LFMO's vision goes beyond a simple alert system and would extend to connect vulnerable people to wraparound care that is rooted in wise practices of indigenous harm reduction and trauma-informed care.

We propose a specific national body such as a red alert response centre distinct from the police, and moving beyond surface level support. The centre could help facilitate search and rescue efforts, provide ongoing support at different stages of missing persons cases, including the long-term missing, and be a direct pathway to services and supports that can increase safety and resilience amongst indigenous women, youth and 2SLGBTQQIA+ persons.

LFMO's target message is that indigenous women, girls and gender-diverse persons deserve safety, protection and equity. Our emphasis would not be on conveying a specific message to the wider public, who are often very anti-indigenous, anti-poor, etc. Instead, we believe that the red dress alert should signal to indigenous women, girls and gender-diverse people four key messages:

If you are missing, we will look for you;

When we find you, we will help you;

You will not be abandoned or ignored;

You are loved.

It's important to LFMO that the creation, implementation and evaluation of the red dress alert prioritize the needs and living experiences of indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBT persons above the general public's needs or awareness raising.

The red dress alert must be more than a simple alert system where the case is closed once a person has been located safe or deceased. It must be a tangible way in which we can increase capacity for safety, decrease harms against already hyper surveilled groups and connect those who go missing, or are at risk, to well-funded services and supports.

The overall goal must be for a red dress alert to produce quantifiable material changes in the lives of indigenous women, girls and gender-diverse persons and their families and communities. It must meet the needs and reach those who are already or likely to be impacted by MMIWG.

If a red dress alert response were created, there would also be related contact [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I'm going to stop you for a second, because the connection froze a little bit. If you could go back about two or three sentences in your presentation so we can link it all back together, I'll give you the remaining time.

Please go ahead.

[Melanie Omeniho]

The overall goal must be for a red dress alert to produce actual, quantifiable material changes in the lives of indigenous women and girls, and 2SLGBT persons and their families. If a red dress alert response centre were created, there would also be related contact information and ways for the centre to be of assistance. This would be similar to the Canadian human trafficking hotline where, when a person signals the hotline, they're connected to various supports.

I'm going to end it there, but I would like to advise that LFMO also really appreciates the fact that a red dress alert may be too gender-specific and may not be inclusive enough, and we need to find a way to make sure that whatever terminology we use is inclusive of everybody.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much for your testimony. It's really well appreciated.

I'm now going to turn to the Quebec Native Women Inc., with Marjolaine, who is online.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Marjolaine Étienne, President, Quebec Native Women Inc.]

Kwei, hello.

My name is Marjolaine Étienne and I am the president of Quebec Native Women Inc. In May, our organization will be celebrating its 50th anniversary. I wanted to point out that our organization has been active for 50 years, has picked itself up after setbacks, and has accomplished some great things.

Quebec Native Women is here to comment on the motion that was adopted. I believe there was a meeting in December or January and we were able to provide our comments on the implementation of a red dress alert system, which is similar to the amber alert.

We said there are certain differences that must be considered if such a system is created. In Quebec, we have to consider certain elements that could facilitate the establishment of the system. It is probably different in western Canada. There are systems in place in Quebec, but they are completely different from those in western Canada.

Our organization supports the implementation of such a system and expects that it will be implemented. We see it as one avenue among many for protecting women and young girls as much as possible, whether they are in their own community or outside it, that is, in Quebec's general population.

Implementing the red dress alert system is important. In our opinion, we need to bring together the key stakeholders who will have a role to play and will have responsibilities. I am referring in particular to the police services in the various communities in Quebec. In addition, we have to consider all the police systems outside our communities.

In order to improve safety and act quickly when someone goes missing, I think we need to establish a multidisciplinary team and take the necessary steps. In terms of implementation, though, we are talking about starting up an organization. Before all of that, however, there is preliminary work to be done. It is at that stage that we need to appeal to all the key stakeholders, including our indigenous political leaders, so they recognize that such a system would be effective. We need to take a broad overview in establishing the system and need to determine which stakeholders will have an important role to play in establishing it.

Just recently, we spoke briefly with the head of the Quebec Association of First Nation and Inuit Police Directors.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Could you start winding it up because you're over the time. Please just make a last comment, please.

[Marjolaine Étienne]

Okay.

Creating the team is important, but it has to be done properly. I would call upon the key stakeholders at...

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

There is no interpretation.

I don't think we have translation of that.

There was no translation even on your last couple of minutes. What I'm going to do is to ensure that when we have questions and answers, you have the opportunity to continue with your thoughts.

You had translation?

It was just me?

It shows English and I had no translation. I didn't have any translation on mine.

It's probably me, sir. You know that. You've worked with me many times.

What we are going to do is we will turn it over for the first six minutes for each person. I will pass the floor over to Anna for your lines of questions.

Anna, you have six minutes, please.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here. This is a very important topic.

I have a few questions so I am going to start with Madam Lorraine Augustine.

You mentioned that the alert system has to be administered by indigenous people.

Is that correct?

[Chief Lorraine Augustine]

Yes, that is what I said.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Okay.

I was just looking at some stats. As of December 31, there were 1,186 children who were successfully recovered through the Amber alert.

This is just your opinion, I understand, but do you think that by working together with all police forces across the provinces in the country, we could incorporate that into the system so that it would be widespread?

[Chief Lorraine Augustine]

Absolutely, I think you could. Keep in mind, though, that you need to have indigenous people administering it that rather than just the policing. I think it's really important that our indigenous women or men—it doesn't matter—administer it. The employees or whoever is administering it needs to be indigenous. I feel that we have more of a sense of what's happening within our communities and with our women, rather than looking at it as just they are reported missing. Because of the stats of how many indigenous women who have gone murdered and missing, I think it calls for that type of administration.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

My next question is for Mitch Bourbonniere.

Mitch, thank you very much for helping us better understand this.

My question is how can we, as a committee, put forward an opportunity or a plan to educate the men so that women are just as respected? I find that there's a bit of a misconnect, if you will. I know that you mentioned it and said that little boys see their moms being tortured and grow up to continue this behaviour.

How can we change that attitude?

I know we are going to have to work with women and make them stronger, but also work with young boys and men to appreciate and respect women just as much as they respect each other.

[Mitch Bourbonniere]

I'd like to clarify something. The phenomenon of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls comes from two places.

One is the trauma caused by the colonizer and the men learning to be abusive. That's one thing. As Chief Lorraine Augustine mentioned, there are non-indigenous men in power who are also responsible for the deaths, the murders and the disappearances of indigenous women. That's really important to state.

Getting back to your question, it's happening magically and organically here in Winnipeg. A women's crisis centre and women's shelter approached me and some other men in 2016. They passed tobacco. They asked us to create a healing program and a healing place for men, and actually offered up their sacred space. They invited us into their safe place to work on ourselves and to heal so that we could give back and be helpful in the community.

I work with boys. I work with young people. I work with men. That was the first men's group of its kind in Winnipeg. Now, on any day of the week there's a place for a man to go to be with other men and learn of the sacredness of women as life-givers and matriarchs.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I have data here from Stats Canada showing that 81% of indigenous women and girls were killed by someone they knew, “including an intimate partner (35%), acquaintance (24%), or family member (22%). In most cases, the person accused of their homicide was also Indigenous (86%).”

I'm looking at these stats and thinking that we have a hell of a job ahead of us to change those numbers so that they're not so drastic. I don't know if you've read the book If I Go Missing. It's a really good book, and it also says that.

Are you saying that by working with young men and helping them appreciate and respect women, we can change these numbers?

[Mitch Bourbonniere]

Yes.

We also need to address the other 20% or 25% of people who come into indigenous communities to abuse, take, kill, rape and murder indigenous women and girls. That doesn't happen in any other communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

I'm now going to pass it on to Anita for the next round.

Anita Vandenbeld, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all of you for your testimony and for all of the work you do.

If there's one takeaway from what each of you has said, I think it's this issue of trust: The system needs to be trusted, and that is not easy to do. That is what I'm taking away from some of your testimony.

I'd like to pick up on something I think Ms. Augustine and Ms. Omeniho both touched on, and that is the role of the public. In my mind, when we talk about a red dress alert, the idea is it should be like an Amber alert where everybody's eyes would be out there searching to multiply the chances that these women will be found. Your testimony points out, and I think rightly so, that there's racism and bias in the public, and the trust issue we talked about might also be a distrust of the general public. Then you get into privacy and issues like that.

I'd like Ms. Augustine to comment on that first, and then Ms. Omeniho. Anyone else who wants to jump in is welcome to as well.

[Chief Lorraine Augustine]

I think the biggest issue is awareness. A lot of the general public doesn't even know what's happening to indigenous people, let alone what's happening to our indigenous women. It's going to take a lot of education to raise awareness that this is happening.

One of your colleagues mentioned stats. If you compare the stats for indigenous women to the stats for non-indigenous women, the difference is very alarming. I think we have to let the general public know what's really happening to our indigenous women. Until we do that, a lot of the public—not all, but the majority—really won't give a hoot, I'm sorry to say, unless it happens to them, to someone in their immediate family or to someone they know. That's when they'll say, “Oh, my gosh, this is really happening out there.”

It's going to take a lot of education to make the public aware of what's happening to our indigenous women, and I think the red dress alert would be a good start.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I guess the question that I'm going to ask is: Is it possible that it can cause harm if it goes to the public—