Evidence of meeting #26 for Veterans Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Mr. Chairman, my colleague has one question, so I'll just let Mr. Mayes go with his question.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I'm curious, in your role as chair of the board, to make sure that balance is given to the veteran, do you review the decisions of the individual board members to make sure there isn't a board member who maybe makes a greater number of arbitrary decisions? Do you monitor that to ensure that the philosophy or the position of the board is followed?
February 15th, 2007 / 10 a.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
The chair and deputy chair monitor the performance of our board members. We do not monitor the merit of their decisions. We make sure they show up for work on time. We make sure they put out their decisions in a timely fashion. We will maintain overall certain sets of statistics, and we use that, along with quality assurance systems we have in place at the board, through analysts and assistants who prepare the decisions, review the decisions. We try to build a system of feedback to the board member so he knows how he's doing from a performance point of view.
From a merit point of view, usually what happens is if a decision is issued and the veteran is incredibly dissatisfied with the result, I'll hear about it--and I want to hear about it--or if something went wrong in the hearing: the board member wanted to be friendly and made a joke the veteran didn't think was a joke, things like that. Little events sometimes pop up and make you ask what happened, but rarely does it go beyond that.
Honestly, with the complement of board members that I have and the complement and the quality of the staff I have at the board, I can honestly say that things are running smoothly. I like the way we're going. I like the way we're doing business. Unfortunately, some things always crop up that you can't expect, but overall the system is working well.
If we get a dozen complaints a year about the performance of the board members, it would be a big year.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Mr. Marchand, I have two more questions. I'll give them both to you so you can speak to them.
I heard Mr. Perron's concern about objectivity. My first question is whether you have had a lot of concerns from veterans regarding the lawyers you have.
Secondly, are these lawyers who are called to the bar? Are they responsible to an authority higher than the board, as far as their credentials are concerned?
10:05 a.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
You're speaking about the advocates?
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
They aren't our advocates and they don't report to the board. Well, they report to the board in the sense that they're officers of the court.
Often advocates will try to talk to board members about how they present their cases, how they could do better. Board members will tell them maybe they shouldn't concentrate on certain areas, or don't worry about this, we've read the files. There is a conversation between most advocates and board members on how to carry the business through the day. That's a good thing. There's a dynamic relationship there, and they learn to work with each other. There's a working relationship.
What sometimes happens when there are a lot of files is that clients call in asking where their file is or when their case will be presented. We can't manage that for the lawyers. They have to learn that for themselves. We don't get involved in the lawyer or client relationship.
Could the board help the lawyers manage their files better? Of course we could. But they don't necessarily want the boards to tell them how to manage their cases. What can I say? We can sit down with them and try to to work things out, but ultimately they're the ones who are managing their caseload.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
Of course they are--in each province. There were 40 of them at last count.
I've often suggested that they be moved to the board, but nobody wants to manage lawyers, basically. They're not an easy group.
I was at Air Canada for many years, and we had a huge law branch there. I remember the vice-president saying you can't manage lawyers.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
On the other aspect of the question, have you had a lot of complaints from veterans?
10:10 a.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
I think the issue for BPA to be considering is the following. We could all ask ourselves what people want. Do they want independent lawyers, or do they want lawyers who work well and fast? If you have to choose between a management system.... The ideal is to get the two working in conjunction. How do you work that? Maybe one solution is to get them to administratively report to the board--a deputy-chair who say he wants 700 cases ready to proceed to a hearing by next month and this is how he sees it evolving to meet the objectives.
Is that feathering the lawyers, or is that pushing them along to get the files prepared? We could discuss that at length, but that's obviously an avenue. It's a balancing act, and it's not an easy one.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
It's going to be less than that.
If at all possible, could you possibly supply me with a list of the 26, 27 or 28 members of your Board? I can't recall the exact number of members.
10:10 a.m.
An hon. member
There are 26 members in total.
10:10 a.m.
GIlles-A. Perron
Then I'd be interested in getting the names of the 26 members.
I have something I'd like to say, having observed that people seem to have some reservations about the ombudsman. I think it's clear to everyone here that the ombudsman is not there to do your job. His mandate is to conduct inquiries and studies and, first and foremost, to make recommendations. His job is to advise the House and minister that a particular situation isn't working and to ask that problems be rectified, if at all possible. That's his job.
He cannot change situations. He can only make recommendations. Therefore, everyone must have a clear understanding of his role, because everyone seems to think that this is just one more person carrying a big stick. That will not be the case. His role will be to review situations and make recommendations.
I have nothing further.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
Now we'll go to Ms. Guarnieri and Mr. Valley. I assume you're splitting your time.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Albina Guarnieri Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
Yes, and I will prove that I can be succinct.
Monsieur Marchand, earlier you cited exhaustive numbers about your pending workload. I can appreciate that you don't have all the stats surrounding Agent Orange at your fingertips, but perhaps you'd be good enough to provide the committee at the earliest date possible.... You mentioned a backlog of 8,000?
10:10 a.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
There are 8,000 cases registered in the system, some 4,200 of which are not with the board; they're with BPA at this juncture. At the board there are 700 pending cases for hearings, 700 cases in preparation, and 1,700 cases registered.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Albina Guarnieri Liberal Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
Perhaps you'd be good enough to provide the committee, at the earliest date possible, a breakdown of how many of those pertain to Agent Orange specifically, and how many you have refused to date surrounding Agent Orange. I believe earlier you cited figures on how many had been approved, but perhaps you could also shed some light on those that have been refused.
Thank you. I'll pass the floor to my colleague.