Veterans Affairs Committee on May 27th, 2009

[Col Pat Stogran]

The short answer, Mr. Chair, is yes.

I have to qualify that, in that for every contact we make, we don't take notes on the individual. In the United States, for example, ombudsmen actually destroy their files to prevent the possibility that confidentiality will be breached. So in routine communications we don't take notes, as I might expect a police officer to do.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

When you're dealing with clients, as a general rule, when someone is coming forward, you have access to their client files from Veterans Affairs?

[Col Pat Stogran]

Mr. Chair, yes, we do. When a case is opened, we are as rigorous in terms of notes as the department is.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

So do you personally review the file as well to make sure the proper follow-ups are coming through from your staff?

[Col Pat Stogran]

Mr. Chair, I do as much as humanly possible. I would say I haven't for the last six or eight months, as we have been in the process of changing over to a new system. Having said that, we do have a process within the office, a series of filters. When there are compelling cases that are qualified as cases in which there's potential hardship, either physical or financial, possible harm to a veteran or somebody else, where time is of the essence, where there is potential public controversy, or where there are sensitive issues, then there are filters before these files come to my attention.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

It's pretty straightforward here. So what other information do you have access to--what other files?

[Col Pat Stogran]

Mr. Chair, I have access to the VAC file base on all of the clients, so all of the notes to file that they make in dealing with issues.

I don't know if I understand the question.

For example, the Veterans Review and Appeal Board does not provide us their files or their judgments on cases, but Veterans Affairs does. Veterans Affairs also provides us solicitor-client-privileged documents from their dealings with the Bureau of Pensions Advocates and those types of things.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You have heard of the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act, right?

[Col Pat Stogran]

Yes, I have.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You are saying you can't get information. Have you used that avenue to gain information?

[Col Pat Stogran]

As a matter of fact, Mr. Chair, we've submitted an access to information request to do with homelessness to find out what exactly we are missing in this. It was suggested to us that we should be taking this course. It's an extremely onerous way of doing it. It is time-consuming. I think the department is going to find, much as the Department of National Defence did when it asked the DND Ombudsman to do this in days gone by, that it's just not worth its effort to have to bring those documents out, censor them, and go through all of the processes. It's better off to work in a collegial fashion and, in our case, serve the veteran at the end of the day.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You mentioned you had received...and you did not read it. Is that correct?

[Col Pat Stogran]

No, I did read it.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

But you did not provide any input into the report.

[Col Pat Stogran]

As we drew attention to the issue, an individual within the department tasked with putting together this study, along with one of my staff who had been in the lead in our liaison with people in the United States and the United Kingdom, provided some advice based on their findings and what I'd learned in the shelters. That information went away and we had no further input into it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a brief question.

What does it mean when it says: “the “Westminster” type of government”? This is the first time in six years that I have heard this expression.

[Col Pat Stogran]

I have a document on the Westminster system, a brief that was provided me by the Privy Council Office that describes it. I would be happy to share this with the committee in the future. It basically describes the parliamentary system, the parliamentary privileges, the relationship between the deputy minister and the minister, and the accountability chain. I can provide the document that was provided to me.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you very much. That would be very interesting.

Mr. Clarke asked you a question earlier. You said that the notes on file were those taken by your officials, officials working for the ombudsman. Do you have access to the notes made by the Department of Veterans Affairs?

You said that you have requested access to information. I have a problem with that. Does that mean that you did not receive any of the notes, files and reports from the Department of Veterans Affairs, with the exception of the information provided to you by the veterans? Does the department give you nothing?

Gee whiz! That means that the same work has been started over twice or thrice, and they seem to like that. Everyone is working on the same thing. I just do not get it. We will soon be hearing from departmental representatives.

[Col Pat Stogran]

With respect to information-sharing in individual cases, I can recall no complaints about resolving issues—level 1, level 2. Information-sharing, however, has in the past been problematic in the areas of policy development, cabinet confidences, and things of that nature. I think we are getting good access to case information on our veterans, whom I call stakeholders, people who have a stake in what we're doing.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

You began a systemic investigation into the administrative slowness noted in the Department of Veterans Affairs process, which is supposed to include public consultations. How far have you got with this investigation?

[Col Pat Stogran]

With respect to the public consultation process, we embarked on what I'll refer to as an omnibus investigation into red tape. The impact it has on the veterans' community is very broad. We've been experimenting with a public consultation approach. We hang out information on our website, and we ask the veteran community to contribute evidence, discussion, and guidance. It's a system that Veterans Affairs Canada has used in the policy realm—they have a different title for it. We've experimented with it on our current website, where we ask for feedback from anybody who's had problems with red tape. We received two dozen useful responses from the veteran community, with ideas or suggestions on how things could be improved. I'm encouraged by our approach to this public consultation, and I'm hopeful that by the end of the summer we'll actually have it operating. I've laid down a challenge with my staff that by November of this year, by the two-year mark, we will have the public consultation approach to veterans' issues going full-steam.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Did you read the report on the homeless that was prepared by the Department of Veterans Affairs? You mentioned it earlier. Do you have this report? Did you read it?

[Col Pat Stogran]

Mr. Chair, I'll just clarify that again. It's really a strategic study of the situation, with a series of recommendations on what the department could do as they move forward in planning to address the situation of homelessness. I have read that particular strategic study.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Did it provide you with any good ideas?