Evidence of meeting #32 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was years.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Retired Constable, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Could I make one other comment?
10:15 a.m.
Retired Constable, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
When some people leave the RCMP or the Canadian Armed Forces, maybe all they want to do is get out because of their mind frame. Maybe that's the day they just want out of the organization; they don't care where they're going or where they're at. They don't have the proper mind frame because of stress or post-traumatic stress, which they might not even know they have. They just say, “Let's just get out of here.”
Now, after the fact, they're going to deal with this stuff, but they're not thinking straight that day. Because we, as armed forces people or RCMP members, go out and deal with the criminals in this world, and maybe the day we want to get out, we just want to get out of there. They don't know what's going to happen afterwards; they just want to leave the job and get out of there.
10:15 a.m.
Retired Constable, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Thank you for asking the question.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank the witnesses for being here.
This is a big issue for my constituency. I'm from British Columbia, and there are many veteran RCMP who have retired in our area--we're in kind of a retirement area--so I get a lot of e-mails on this issue. I do appreciate it.
Separating the issues around disability...and I'm very sympathetic with some of those things that maybe need to be changed. With regard to the actual pension and the term “clawback”, when it was set up there was a superannuation premium paid, but when the CPP came along it was blended into that payment. So you didn't have to pay the superannuation premium out of your paycheque on a monthly basis because it was blended into your superannuation.
Part of that whole agreement was that even though you wouldn't be able to collect your CPP until you were 65 or 60, there would be a bridge there--a pension--if you retired earlier. That's the way it was set up. It's unfortunate that maybe it wasn't communicated well enough to those who were being employed by the Government of Canada, whether it was the Canadian Forces or the RCMP.
As we all know, ignorance of a law is not an excuse. When you enter into a labour contract and go to work for somebody, you have those things--what your roles and responsibilities are, and what your compensation is going to be. This was over 40 years ago.
I've heard two comments. One is that it wasn't in your package about your compensation; then I heard that it was but you didn't realize the impact until afterwards. Was it in the package and just overlooked, or maybe the implications of that agreement...? It was basically signed by those who started employment, whether it was with the RCMP or the Canadian Forces.
Maybe I could direct that to Mr. White.
10:15 a.m.
Dominion Secretary, Royal Canadian Legion
Thank you.
I can only say from my own personal experience that when I retired 12 years ago I was briefed on what my reduced annuity would be because I got out before 25 years. But I was not told about a pension reduction at age 65 to do this bridging exercise.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
This is a really tough one. As was said earlier, we are so appreciative of the work people have done, not only in the Canadian Forces, the RCMP, and Corrections, but also in serving the government and Canadians.
Looking at the blended premium you're paying for CPP and superannuation, I know this is a challenge because you didn't have anybody representing you in negotiating this, but if that were separated so you were making a superannuation payment of x dollars for your pension, your 2%, and then paying your CPP premium, you would have less take-home pay because they wouldn't be blended. You would be paying for both.
That's a little of the difference between some of the pensions. It has been suggested that other people who collect pensions from the Government of Canada, for instance, don't get this clawback. But that's because they pay both premiums separately and have less take-home pay during the time they are working. You were getting more money when you were working because you were paying less into the plan.
So that's a little bit of a thought. That's the way the plan was set up for you, and it carried on for over 40 years. This has really come to a head in the last four years. I have to say there is a bit of a responsibility in knowing what you signed up for.
Mr. Labelle, please.
10:20 a.m.
Military and Royal Canadian Mounted Police Veteran, As an Individual
With regard to contributions, contributions are listed separately on our pay guides. This is where the misinformation starts. We believe we're entitled to both benefits. When you speak of a retirement package at release centres and so on, you must understand that a lot of the individuals in charge of those sections may come from any trade requirement; they're not experts themselves.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I appreciate that. As was said earlier....
Am I out of time?
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
It has been recognized by the public service that better communications and sitting down with the people who are signing that contract for the Government of Canada will ensure that they are going to be better informed and have a better knowledge of what they are signing.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Mr. Mayes.
Now we go on to the Bloc Québécois pour cinq minutes.
Monsieur Gaudet.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I will start with you, Mr. Mallette.
I'm not talking about someone who is injured or sick, but about a corrections officer who works for the public service. How much time do they need to be entitled to a pension?
10:20 a.m.
National President, Syndicat des agents correctionnels du Canada, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
At present, a corrections officer can retire after 25 years' service. They will then receive 2% per year of service, so 50% of their salary.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
It would be 50% of salary. So if they start working at age 20, they are entitled to retire at 45 years.
10:20 a.m.
National President, Syndicat des agents correctionnels du Canada, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
Yes.
10:20 a.m.
National President, Syndicat des agents correctionnels du Canada, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
There is no maximum, you can work more than 35 years, but after 35, you stop paying into the pension plan.
10:20 a.m.
National President, Syndicat des agents correctionnels du Canada, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
Yes, and after 35 years, you get 70% of your salary.
10:20 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Fine.
Would it be possible to get a table? How much will an ordinary corrections officer who works for 35 years and retires at age 55 get? At age 60, how much will they get from the Quebec Pension Plan or another source of income? And last, at age 65, how much will they receive? To make a decision on Bill C-201, I have to have something concrete.
I would like to have the same thing for the RCMP and the Canadian Forces. I'm asking for the same thing from all four of you. Even you, Mr. O'Handley, I would like to have figures about your specific case. Sometimes, when it comes to figures, we can get lost. I would like to have a complete table of your case. I'm not talking about your deafness, that's another thing. But you are retired. I don't know how old you were when you retired and how long you have been retired, how much you got at age 60 and age 65. I would like to have your complete table, to understand properly.