Evidence of meeting #47 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vrab.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
They keep a tally of how many times you ruled for or against. What possible benefit, or justification, is there for that?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
Well, one is intimidation. The second one is that we had a higher favourability rate when I first joined the board than the department, and now the tables have turned, so it's worked.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Did I get the impression from your initial remarks that when a case is sent back or overturned by the Federal Court it's treated with some disdain and disrespect? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but explain to me the direction that's given to the board when you have a case that has been overturned on judicial review or sent back by the Federal Court, which is what the ombudsman used all that paper on.
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
Typically, we'll be briefed by our legal unit. We'll have a headnote and they'll go through it. At the end of it, the legal unit will say they don't agree, especially when one comes back and overturns our decision. It plants a seed in some people's minds that we should follow the legal unit, because, for whatever reason, they don't agree.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Thank you, Chair.
One of my colleagues is away today. I don't regularly sit on this committee, but I can tell you that I am honoured to do so today, particularly given my very strong personal feelings and sentiments for veterans issues. My father was a veteran in the Second World War. He served in Holland and Belgium and was injured. He came back. We're both lifetime members of the Legion. I myself am a member as well. I worked with the Prince Edward Regiment. Most important, I'm right near the Trenton air base.
My office deals with a significant number of veterans issues and appeals. I can assure you that I do thank you on behalf of the veterans and their organization. I can tell you, those are not hollow words.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
I think it is important for the record, though, to get some of the minute details read into the text so that we can proceed and the regular members of the committee can deal with this issue.
When were you appointed, Mr. Leduc?
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
I was appointed on November 7, 2005 by the Liberal government. I was reappointed by the Conservatives on November 7, 2007.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
At the time, of course, we always think we make the right decisions in life. I wish I had a dollar for every time I made a mistake. Do you feel the decisions you made throughout your term were consistent with the act, and were not just your personal opinions?
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
I had been working with the department as a veteran since 1992. In fact, I helped create the New Veterans Charter, and I helped amend the Pension Act, so I'm very well aware of what Parliament expects. There were a couple of times when I was ground down by pressure of the staff, and I can count them on one hand. But for the most part, I absolutely stuck by the act.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
For the most part, you agree with the decisions you have made, with an unfortunate—
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Fine, thank you. I appreciate that.
Over your period of time, how many cases do you think you would have reviewed? Would you have any idea? Are we talking 15, 20, 1,000? Give us a ballpark figure, if you would.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Okay, thank you very much.
I'll move to Mr. Small. As an ex-officer, I personally understand how important it is to have the life experiences of a veteran on the board, at least in my humble opinion again.
For the benefit of this committee, and I know it's been stated but I'd like you to extrapolate on why you think it is important to have that hands-on personal experience of someone who has not only lived it, but has felt it.
I'll go back to Mr. Leduc for a response as well, if we have a moment and if I don't run out of time. Mr. Leduc, you had mentioned you didn't feel it was important to have a high composition of veterans. You said maybe 51%, but I'll get back to you in a second for you to respond to that.
Mr. Small, I'm looking for your personal opinion, and maybe Mr. Townsend as well, as to the composition of the veterans on the board. Should it be 70%, 100%, 20%? How important is it to have that personal experience?
5:10 p.m.
National President, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Veterans' Association
It's difficult for me to answer that question. I think if a board member had that type of experience, it would be more easy for him to put things into context. I think that without that context, it may be somewhat lacking if you're just reading a file or listening without being able to put the injury or whatever into a proper context.
Possibly this would be of great value which could be added to the board in instances of that nature.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
From my experience, sir, here is an example of when that works really well.
I heard a case in which a young man said, “I carried a rucksack that weighed about 175 pounds”. I said to him, “Sir, with my experience, in the airborne, the heaviest I carried was between 100 and 125 pounds”. I asked him, “Did you actually weigh the rucksack?” He said, “No”. I said, “So, it's what you believe,” and he said, “Yes”.
I accepted that. It's what he believed. Another colleague may have said his testimony was not credible, but I was able to associate with him.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
National Executive, Staff Relations Representative Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Briefly, if I may, it's very important to us. Peer review.... Who knows our work better than we do? Whether you're a veteran of the RCMP or a veteran of the CF, we're a collection of honourable people who can adhere to principles of law in making decisions about the experiences we've shared with others. We've always struggled because we're the minor client of Veterans Affairs. There should be some RCMP representation in that mix. But I think what is fundamental is that the mix should predominantly be those who walk in the shoes of those being judged, for lack of a better word.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
Thank you very much.
That's your time. Well done, Mr. Kramp.
Ms. Mathyssen, please.