Evidence of meeting #14 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
If I do have 20 seconds left, both of you have identified communication as being one of the big problems here, and I hope that everyone in the room is taking note of that particular comment, because both of you have mentioned that.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you both for being here.
Mr. Griffis, you talked about the schedule. If I understood properly, you mentioned some of the difficulty of the schedule identifying the level of incapacity, and so on. Do you have some specific suggestions? I'm not asking you for them off the top of your head, but would you be able to supply some suggestions to the committee about how you think that schedule could be revamped to make it more meaningful?
4:15 p.m.
National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping
I'm well aware that in Veterans Affairs and in the adjudication division of Veterans Affairs, they have some very good, very intelligent people. I think if they looked at it a little more closely—and there are certain times of the day when decision-making is a really good thing, and there are certain times of the day when decision-making is not a good thing. Perhaps if they looked at the case more than once, they might come up with a different answer, an answer that is going to be successful.
For instance, I don't know the criteria, the percentage with respect to the incapacitation that results in $543 or $1,088 or $1,631. I don't know how they do that. I know they have a schedule, but when they look at that schedule, what are they doing?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
To me, you're either severely incapacitated, or you're not. I'm not sure we need three amounts. I think perhaps we need one amount. You are or you're not, but that might be just me.
4:20 p.m.
National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping
For instance, the other gentleman mentioned Alberta. In Alberta there's Major Campbell, and also Major Henwood in Calgary. They both lost limbs. They were very seriously injured, very seriously.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
The topic of the lump sum comes up, as it always does, and the intimation is that it's the lump sum and nothing else. But if you are severely injured and you get the maximum lump sum, which is $301,275 at the moment, if it's service related you're also going to get $275,000 from SISIP, the service income security insurance plan. That's an insurance plan you pay into, and I appreciate that, but it is another lump sum you get.
Also, if you're that seriously injured, you are going to get what in effect are pensions, earnings loss benefit, the PIA, permanent incapacity allowance, and the PIAS, permanent incapacity allowance supplement. I suggest that maybe whenever this was done we should have used the word “pension” in there somewhere instead of what it's called. That might make it a little bit more clear to people that it is in fact a pension. Some go to age 65; some go for life.
Is that a fair statement?
4:20 p.m.
National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping
I agree with you. I've been asking VAC to change that word to “pension”, so thank you very much. I don't know how many times we've said that. Of course we're asking that it continue for life, but the selling of the ELB would be easier sell if you said “pension”.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Exactly.
Tim, you mentioned in response to Mr. Karygiannis that you would go to the Legion, that you would do this, get the advice, and so on. Why not go to a VAC office if there's a VAC office there?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
I prefer not to travel. I do things electronically, but—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Okay, but if you're in a location with a VAC office, would you pick the Legion or the VAC office?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
The person who I deal with was a fellow veteran in Afghanistan. He knows the system inside out. I have the feeling that he's going to be an advocate for me, and it's a lot less paperwork.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
You are who you are, and you represent a lot of other folks by circumstance, and so on. Do you think that with all the talk about the VAC offices closing, guys would probably go to the Legion anyway? Is that what you're saying?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
Yes, essentially, and to be able to just scan it and send it over to the Legion, not have to use a fax machine to communicate with VAC, all these sorts of things are significant factors.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Okay, that's interesting.
You talked about PTSD. Are you familiar with Willy MacDonald, master warrant officer?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
He is a medal of valour winner, read like a VC, but that's another story. He started a program, which I think is called, It's Okay to be Okay.
I've been around this a fair bit. We get people back from Afghanistan. We wrap our arms around them, and we want them to tell us how bad they feel. Sometimes they don't feel bad. Sometimes they're just fine, but they're told, “No, no, no. You did terrible things. You saw terrible things. You must feel bad.” I've talked to guys who have been in that situation. They say, “They're trying to talk me into PTSD.” After a while they say there must be something wrong with them because they don't feel bad.
Do you have any insight into that? Willy started a program to tell guys that it's okay, they don't have to have PTSD just because they went there.
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
That's why we haven't made it a requirement. We don't talk about it except in a psycho-educational manner in our program, to say that they can be totally switched on, okay, high functioning in a career, and get some extra support if they need it with us. Many don't. You're right. Many go on. That's what we have to be careful of, branding the Canadian soldier as a pity case. It's detrimental when we're trying to apply for jobs.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Exactly, and I hear from soldiers who say, “I'm having trouble getting an interview because they think I'm damaged just because I'm a soldier.” Some of the well-meaning stuff that's out there in fact is counterproductive.
A perfect example of that is Corporal Kirkland. I'm not sure if you're familiar with his case. He took the lump sum, and I guess he got other stuff, but I'm not sure of that. He's now a very successful real estate person in Brandon. I think he's kind of a poster child for getting back on your feet, getting back into business, getting on with life on your own terms.
I think most vets, especially the younger ones, would probably feel the same way. Would you agree with that?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
Absolutely. When I returned, I went back to UBC and completed a masters in counselling psychology while doing all this. I've been able to create the Veterans Transition Network and raise this money.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Royal Galipeau Conservative Ottawa—Orléans, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
It's with some emotion that I welcome you both.
Mr. Laidler, I voted on the Afghanistan motions that probably sent you there. Thank you for coming back.
Mr. Griffiths, I just have one question for you. What's the best time of the day to make decisions?
4:25 p.m.
National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping
It's the morning.
