Veterans Affairs Committee on March 12th, 2015

[Tim Laidler]

I was a reservist.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

When you came back, did you use the vocational program to help fund the university program that you wanted to pursue?

[Tim Laidler]

No, I did not.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. Was that available to you?

[Tim Laidler]

It would have been if I had gone through the whole process.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You weren't sure whether you would be accepted or not. You just decided to go on your own to return to university?

[Tim Laidler]

I didn't feel that I needed it.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

All right.

Let me ask about a few other programs. If you don't mind sharing your experience with the committee in terms of how you transitioned out of the military, were you a voluntary release? Were you a medical release? Did you find that the military was looking after your needs up to the point of release? Perhaps you could share some of that with us.

[Tim Laidler]

Sure. I'm still going through the process. I'm still in the military. I'm still in the reserves. On my transition out and what I found, I think the most useful thing to talk about is that there was not a moment when I realized that I had to leave the military. It was a longer process. It was quite a challenging process to get to that point and decide things, and ask, “Am I no longer going to be a soldier and not go overseas on tour again?” and “What am I going to remake myself to be in the civilian world?” It was something that I struggled with for a long time.

Sometimes it would change. I'd wake up and say that I wanted to go back overseas and do it again. Sometimes I'd say that maybe it was just not good for me, that I should really look at getting out. I think that process is still ongoing, to a certain extent. I think a lot of my colleagues are in a similar spot. It's not like one day they wake up and realize it's time to get out and start getting services. It's an ongoing conversation. I did find that the medical doctors were quite collaborative with me in making that decision.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. Have you found within DND, then, that if.... For example, we had a presentation by the Department of National Defence at our last meeting. We were talking about categories, temporary medical categories and permanent medical categories, as well as the medical support and assessment that's provided throughout that stage or, actually, those multiple stages. The stages can last anywhere from two to five years from the time when either a serving member self-discloses and says they have an issue and they think they need medical help, or the service looks at them and says they think that member has an issue and needs medical help.

Are you able to perhaps shed some light from your experience on that process, if you don't mind? Were you part of that process of the temporary medical categories and the permanent medical categories, and did you find that the military was looking after your medical needs as you were going through that process?

[Tim Laidler]

The short answer is yes. Within the military, I felt very well taken care of.

Another program that's available and that we've had other veterans take advantage of is that when they're in that two- to five-year window, they can actually go and work for another organization. We've now had five military personnel paid for by DND come to work for our organization in different parts of Canada to get civilian credentials as part of their transition out.

Again, I just want to bring awareness of this. We speak about these programs and we really get into the nitty-gritty on them, which is good. We always want to evolve and improve them, but there are a lot of other veterans we've met who've felt something different, who are voluntarily released from the military and who now come back to us five years later without a 3(b) medical release, without having gone through anything. We find that they are the people who are really struggling and we need to really pay attention to them and try to get them into the retraining programs quickly.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I think that's a very valid point, because I think that in the military, as I say, once the system has been flagged, they do look after their soldiers, and I think that with all the supports it eases transition into Veterans Affairs and into civilian life. It doesn't guarantee it.

[Tim Laidler]

That's right.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

There are always improvements, as you say. I do agree that someone who does a voluntary release, for example, and then has to plug into Veterans Affairs, could feel that they're facing obstacles in doing so.

[Tim Laidler]

That's correct.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'll end it there. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

You have 10 seconds.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Tim Laidler]

I think you got the points made.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemieux.

I want to thank all three witnesses for the enlightenment you provided the committee.

We'll now suspend for a few moments before we welcome our next witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I'd like to call the meeting to order. Perhaps members could come back to their seats.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for being here today. We're in the second half of our 40th meeting and we have three witnesses. We have two organizations facing us. I don't know if it's an aptly named organization; they call themselves Monster Canada, but they don't look very scary. We have Scott Byrne and Greg Smith. From VeteranVoice.info we have Mr. Perry Gray, the editor-in-chief.

Mr. Gray, you'll be first at bat. You have the floor for 10 minutes and then we will hear from the other witnesses, after which members of the committee will try to elicit more information from you.

[Captain, N) (Retired) Perry Gray (Editor in Chief, VeteranVoice.info]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm speaking to you both as a client of VAC and a former secretary of the career medical review board for non-commissioned members. Serving on the board provided me with knowledge and experience of how the military determines the nature and extent of any medical condition and how it affects military careers. Ultimately, the board decides whether to retain or release military personnel and it was my job to inform those people affected by the board's decisions.

The board is composed of personnel, known as career managers, who were responsible for assigning personnel to jobs and ensuring that the Canadian Forces had enough people to do its work. The board was advised by a medical doctor who could translate medical information into layman's terms. If the board's recommendation is that the member is expected to be released from the forces, the board ceases consideration of the case and issues a notice of intent to the member via the chain of command. The member has 14 days to respond, and it is normal for a member to be granted more time to respond if needed. The member has three main inherent rights within the procedure: notification, the right to know what is happening; disclosure, the right to see all material that the board has; and representation, the right to respond to the board's decision.

It is important to understand how the board works because it significantly differs from the VAC process. When I was diagnosed with PTSD in 2000, I was subject to a review board for officers. The severity of my condition warranted a medical release because I was not in compliance with the universality of service requirement, being severely ill or injured. Members with permanent limitations who do not comply with the universality of service principles, and who are severely injured or ill and have complex career transition needs, may be retained in the CAF for a period of transition of up to three years. These members work one-on-one with the multi-disciplinary transition team to develop a tailored and flexible plan that features comprehensive health care and social and career transition support. In preparation for release, the member is entitled to a range of transition services and benefits available through various CF agencies.

This is what it is today. It wasn't true in 2000. In 2000, I worked with a transition team here in Ottawa to prepare for my retirement. This included applying for citizen benefits from both VAC and SISIP. It seemed that my transition would be relatively smooth at first. I was enrolled in a training program with SISIP and started to receive financial benefits to augment my military pension. My first indication that there was a problem was when I was informed of my level of disability by VAC. It was quite a shock to learn that my medical condition was said to be minor. Based on the VAC assessment, I could still work with some limitations. This was clearly at odds with the military assessment of severe disability. I checked with my good friend and former colleague, Sean Bruyea, who advised me that I was experiencing the common process practised by VAC, known as low-balling, in which clients are given a much lower disability level than they deserve.

For example, the usual threshold for operational stress injuries is 25% to 30% despite the fact that VAC recognizes that OSIs are difficult to assess and their severity may fluctuate drastically based on a wide variety of factors. A veteran may exhibit anything from rare signs of distress to over-evidence of the disease, chronic psychotic illness. One of the major problems in determining the severity of a condition is that there is too much subjective assessment and a lack of standardization in methodology. Professional therapists are aware of the challenges. The lack of appropriate services for people with serious mental illness is increasingly recognized as a systemic problem.

So began a very traumatic battle to change my disability assessment, which is still ongoing today after more than 15 years. In my opinion, the appeal process is horrific, and regardless of what medical conditions a client may have had, during the appeal process they can develop a traumatic condition. Why is it so traumatic?

Well, this is the perception of VAC:

What we found in the pension system was it was a kind of perverse system, in effect, because we had quite a large number.... We took a number of files between 1998 and 2002 and looked to see how many people were coming back to us for additional pensions. People were making this their life's work. We had people coming back anywhere from 9 to 17 or 18 times, looking to boost a pension.

That was testimony given by the former deputy minister Jack Stagg to this committee.

It has taken me years to change my disability level, during which I have been hospitalized three times, arrested several times under the Mental Health Act of Ontario, and have actually been ordered to leave the Ottawa VAC district office or be arrested. I have been denied the services of the VAC lawyers and exhausted the appeal process. I am left with one option, which is to challenge VAC in a federal court, which could cost $25,000 or more. In addition, my client information has been shared by VAC employees, contrary to the Privacy Act. All of these experiences have contributed to the worsening of my condition.

Of note is that SISIP assessed me as permanently disabled, based on my military medical file, long before VAC grudgingly determined that I was totally and permanently impaired. There has to be a better method employed by VAC to ensure that there is continuity in the determination of the nature and severity of the medical conditions of every client before the end of the three-year transition period.

My recommendations are the following:

VAC and DND must collaborate to ensure that the medical assessments of both departments are similar and that the client is aware of the level of disability. The client must be satisfied that they have been properly and thoroughly assessed before the end of the three-year transition phase.

VAC should not be allowed to determine whether or not a medical condition is a result of military service; only DND should make such assessments.

It should never be necessary to confirm severe medical conditions like the loss of legs. Once a client is assessed as having a permanent condition, then it should only be necessary to record any worsening of the condition.

VAC must change its appeal process. Too often, clients are denied a departmental review and instead are referred directly to VRAB when the client submits their first appeal. The first level appeal should be handled by the district office and involve the VAC assessor, who should have to defend their assessment.

VAC should not be allowed to deny services and to intimidate clients, as I was. Benefit of the doubt, dignity, and respect should always be given to the client.

VAC should also provide the following: front-line approval authority in an experienced case manager's hands, not a bureaucratically labelled case manager; comprehensive, tailor-made programs developed before the last day of release and executed soonest after release; a civilian medical team, lined up and providing appointments before release; thorough education development provided by rehabilitation specialists and psychologists on what the member and the family can expect when dealing with transition, disability, and bureaucratic obstacles and requirements.

Moreover, opportunity with security should mean exactly that: no diminishment in salary for as long as the member pursues a successful vocational rehabilitation program, with plans for more than just trade courses or community college, but full university educations, with post-graduate follow-on if successful, as well as funding and thorough education for starting up businesses.

In summary, the transition should be seamless, allowing the client to concentrate on coping with the transition and adjusting either to a new career or retirement. There should never be a long-term battle to gain and then maintain support from any agency. For many clients, it's hard to concentrate on draining the swamp when you're up to your neck in alligators.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gray.

Go ahead, Mr. Byrne.

[Scott Byrne, Manager, Strategy, Monster Government Solutions, Monster Canada]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting us here today to share our recommendations on enhancing transition services for our veterans.

My name is Scott Byrne, and I'm the director of Monster Government Solutions strategy and client management with Monster Canada. I'll be sharing my time here today with retired navy Admiral Greg Smith, president of Military.com and vice-president of Monster Worldwide.

He will provide the committee with an overview of how Monster's partnership with the U.S. Department of Defense, the private sector, and non-profit organizations has resulted in a highly valuable set of online resources, tools, and services for military service personnel transitioning back to civilian life, many after years of combat duty in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We know that Canada's military veterans face many of the same challenges, notably translating the skills they have developed and mastered while in service into the skills needed by employers here in Canada. We also know, sadly, that this lack of clear translation results in higher than normal unemployment and, equally frustrating or more frustrating, underemployment. We all accept that the more tangible skills of leadership, commitment, self-discipline, teamwork, adherence to standards, staying focused under pressure, and eagerness to take on new challenges are all attributes that every employer wants in an employee. But how does a 30-year-old service member demonstrate those valued attributes in an application process? Equally important, how does a recruiter or supervisor who never served in the military see these intangible attributes in a veteran's application?

While service members recognize their leadership and management potential, recognition and understanding of these qualities within human resources departments is severely lacking. A recent Veterans Transition Advisory Council survey of 850 corporate human resources departments in Canada revealed that only 13% of the respondents said they knew how to read a resumé from a military veteran applicant.

The veteran pool of talent is unique and skilled and would certainly serve as a significant asset to Canadian employers if we could unlock the veteran's full civilian potential. The federal government has an opportunity to bridge this gap by investing in a tool that interprets an individual's military skills, experience, and training and matches them with prospective employers.

Monster has developed and deployed such a tool, the military skills translator. Admiral Smith will provide a few more details in just a moment. Some of your colleagues in other committees have referenced the importance of bringing such a tool to Canada.

Recommendation 32 of the June 2014 report of the Standing Committee on National Defence, “Caring for Canada's Ill and Injured Military Personnel”, calls on the government to “develop a comprehensive, algorithmic, military skills translation software tool to facilitate CF members to obtain civilian employment upon release.”

Further, recommendation 47 of the December 2014 Report on the Standing Committee on Finance, “Towards Prosperity: Federal Budgetary Priorities for People, Businesses and Communities” calls on the federal government to “maintain its strong support for veterans by providing key investments and services, and by exploring new ways to connect veterans with jobs after their service, such as a military skills translator.”

l will now hand this over to Admiral Smith who will talk about the specifies of our skills translator.

[Admiral, Retired) Greg Smith (Representative, President, Military.com and Vice-President, Monster Worldwide Inc., Monster Canada]

Thanks, Scott.

Thanks to the committee for allowing me to speak on this important topic.

I served in the U.S. military for 30 years, the last four in combat both in Iraq and Afghanistan. I retired in October 2011 and began my own transition into civilian life. While my story is not unique, it highlights many of the same issues young men and women face when they take off the uniform. Notably, how do I tell my story of what I can bring to an employer? How can I translate these seemingly unique experiences into a language they will understand? Even I, the two-star admiral, face such questions. I have the greatest empathy for the young men and women who have the same challenge and hurdles when they re-enter the job market.

Monster understood the value I brought as a senior executive and today I represent Military.com as its president. We're the largest online community resource for military personnel, active and reserve, veterans, and their families. We boast over 10 million members, and while the vast majority are from the United States, thousands of Canadians visit our website each and every month.

At Monster, we realize the importance of the overall transition challenge to our service personnel as they prepare for civilian life. Military.com serves both as an online community and as an information portal to help them with the myriad of complex issues around pay, benefits, and for purposes of today's discussion, employment.

One of the features of our website is the transition centre. This section is dedicated to supporting the specific needs of service members as they transition out of uniform. The resources include guidance to transitioning health care for the ill and injured, relocation resources, benefit eligibility, and career mentoring, along with timely information, planning guides, and checklists for finding the right job. The key to all this is the military skills translator.

Our military skills translator uses world-leading algorithms that literally take every single documented skill set that a service member has achieved and been trained and certified in, and translates that into matching civilian skill sets used by human resources departments to code open jobs. The military skills translator also factors in years of service and rank, etc., to better match a service member to future employment. When this set of data is compared against open jobs, such as the hundreds of thousands we carry on Monster.com, a service member receives immediate feedback on potential opportunities.

We all recognize that there is still more to getting a job than just matching military skills to civilian skills, but the success of this translator is undeniable. There were 2.5 million unique views of the military skills translator in 2014, and over 800,000 U.S. veterans have used the tool to date to support their transition. In December 2014, the military skills translator was awarded the most innovative use of technology by the Northern Virginia Technology Council for its contributions to furthering veterans' employment.

Equally exciting and powerful, there are customized versions of this tool now with more than 50 private companies in the United States, along with a number of veteran support organizations and trade associations. For example, The Home Depot has integrated a customized version of the MST, the military skills translator, into its own employment website, helping to hire veterans to meet its internal hiring goals.

Let me close by thanking the committee for taking on this critical issue. You should be proud of the highly skilled and professional military personnel that represent and protect Canada. They have a great contribution to make to the civilian world. Investing in a military skills translator is a tangible way for the Canadian government to ensure that it retains the investments made in its military long after they step down from uniform. Canada deserves the very best and its veterans will continue to serve in equally meaningful ways in the civilian job market. All they ask is a little help making that transition a reality.

Thank you very much.