Veterans Affairs Committee on March 12th, 2015

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you.

I gather that you're talking about individuals who are still serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces. There's a difference, I believe.

[Donald Leonardo]

Yes. Some people get the opportunity to take additional education while they are in the forces. If I am not mistaken, National Defence has cut back on those opportunities through its budget cuts. Those opportunities to continue education have been greatly reduced. The non-commissioned members have a difficult time to advance their education while they are serving.

We have the JPSU, where the injured veterans are going. If they could start their education while they're in there, as they transition from the JPSU to Veterans Affairs, that would be wonderful. Over the past 10 years, we have never seen Veterans Affairs and National Defence work together very well. They used to have the centre, which was a collaboration, though that program wasn't very successful in getting the two departments working together.

We could put on rose-coloured glasses and have the two departments work together in transitioning, so that our injured veterans and our soldiers, sailors, and airmen and airwomen would be able to have every opportunity in the world to become successful. That would be wonderful.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you for those observations.

At the end of your presentation, you also made two other recommendations and you didn't have much time to explain them. Would you like to take a moment to discuss them in a bit more detail?

[Donald Leonardo]

Yes, I very much would.

At present, injured veterans are already taking a 25% pay cut when they go on their earnings loss benefit. Had they not been injured, it's money that they would have put aside, put into savings, in the best part of their career, in the end years. In the U.S., ever since the GI Bill came out during the Second World War, there have always been low-interest home loans available for injured veterans get them on their feet, to make them stable in their home life, thereby taking stress off the family.

An injured veteran at this time cannot get home mortgage insurance. Because they're injured, they don't qualify. If they happen to pass away due to their injuries, then the wife is left with the burden.

These are some programs in the U.S. that aren't available in Canada. I think it's something this committee should recommend correcting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Leonardo.

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank you all for being here.

Chief Armstrong, are you familiar with—it doesn't sound like you are—a facility in Edmonton called Valour Place?

[Tim Armstrong]

No, I am not.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

We turned the sod on that in 2011. There are 12 units for families, all accessible. It's the same kind of program, same everything. It's been pretty full, maybe because Edmonton is a bigger centre and it's easier for the word to get out and so on.

I am going to give you a card with a guy's name on it, Honorary Colonel Dennis Erker. Just Google Valour Place; you'd be really advised to give Dennis a call. He's an absolutely fabulous person. He was the driver behind Valour Place. You could get a lot of information from him. I mean, it a huge initiative, a great initiative, and there are others. Honour House and Valour Place I think could certainly serve as models for the rest of the country.

So I'm going to give you his name, because you really need to talk to him.

[Tim Armstrong]

Great. Thank you, sir.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

I have a couple of points of clarification on what Mr. Chicoine said. The amount for an individual to take training is actually $75,800. There is no limit or cap. The $5 million set aside was just initially. If a hundred people apply, a hundred get served, and if a thousand people apply, a thousand get served. There is no cap on that. Veterans Affairs programs are demand-driven. If the demand is there, then they will get—

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

On a point of order, while I respect your experience, Laurie, and all of your contributions, I'm not sure you're an authority to give evidence before the committee that if a thousand apply, a thousand get served.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

No, no, I am clarifying, as a point of order, what was said.

The fact is that every Veterans Affairs program—this isn't my testifying, but just my correcting a misimpression—is demand-driven. Everybody will be served who meets the requirements of whatever the demand is.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

By “served” you mean they will be given the money if they apply for it?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Yes, if they qualify, there is no limit. Numbers are set aside as an initial budgetary guess, but as many step forward who qualify, they will get it. That's a fact.

I want to talk a little bit to you, Mr. Leonardo. Now, you say you haven't been heard. Actually, I think you were heard.

Are you familiar with the 14 recommendations of the House committee—

[Donald Leonardo]

I am very familiar with them, but they haven't been implemented.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Well, Mr. Leonardo, they actually have. The very first one goes to exactly what you and Mr. Laidler talked about, and that is transition. It was the most important recommendation by this whole committee, that nobody should leave the CF, should leave as a soldier, become a veteran with Veterans Affairs, until everything has been adjudicated—until they have been medically stabilized, until their records are back, until the case manager of VAC is holding hands with the member while he is still a member of the Department of National Defence. If somebody is medically releasing, that can take three to five years.

Are you familiar with some of the progress that's been made on that?

[Donald Leonardo]

I'm very familiar with the progress, Mr. Hawn. The fact is that Veterans Affairs is still readjudicating a case that medical doctors have given a medical release for. Yes, there is a transition now from National Defence to Veterans Affairs, where your paperwork, your medical records, will be moved as you work towards it, but there's still the readjudication, where a team from Veterans Affairs, instead of just giving the doctor the benefit of the doubt that he's the expert on the injuries....

I think part of the problem might be the table of disabilities not matching up to the injuries.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Are you aware that Veterans Affairs and DND are going to be able to match those tables. Are you aware of the...?

You can always find one that is still caught up under the old system, but are you aware of the progress?

[Donald Leonardo]

But, again, the National Defence ombudsman even brought this point up recently.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Are you aware that the National Defence ombudsman and the veterans ombudsman are working together hand-in-hand and moving forward on all of these issues? Are you aware of that?

[Donald Leonardo]

Okay. That's why I brought it up. We brought this up last time and recently with the announcement of the priority hiring in the public service, his concern was the length of time it's going to take. Remember, this program is five years to get a public service job.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Are you aware of the fact that they are working hand-in-glove and making progress on that?

[Donald Leonardo]

I understand they are. I was just reiterating that it wasn't completed yet.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Well, I think everything is going to be a work-in-progress.

Mr. Laidler, kind of along the same lines, you've been an expert on the transition process, having been through it yourself and so on. I think you've probably paid some attention to some of the things that have gone on in that regard. Do you have a comment on the recommendations the committee made and what you're aware of that's been done on any of them, particularly the transition piece?

[Tim Laidler]

Yes, and it even perhaps goes to this education piece of $75,000. I have a good friend who's just entered that program. His schooling is being paid for him to go back and get re-trained.