Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 16th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 38 of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Monday, October 3, 2022, the committee is resuming its study on the national strategy for veterans employment after service.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. Some witnesses and committee members are participating online.

To ensure an orderly meeting, please wait for me to recognize you by name. If you are participating by videoconference and you are not talking, please keep your microphone on mute.

I think that the clerk mentioned that you have the choice of listening to the deliberations in French or in English.

I would remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

In accordance with our routine motion, I wish to inform the committee that the witnesses completed the required connection testing prior to the meeting.

Before we begin, allow me to acknowledge a few colleagues who are here with us substituting others.

I'd like to welcome Ms. Tracy Gray to the committee. We have Mr. Yasir Naqvi online, and Mr. Irek Kusmierczyk is with us.

You have surely noticed that we have among us Ms. Vanessa Davies, who is replacing the clerk of the committee this evening.

Before I give the floor to the witnesses, I want to inform you, honourable members of the committee, that I will be shortening your intervention time a bit to give us 10 minutes to discuss upcoming meetings we are having after spending two weeks in our constituencies.

On that, allow me to welcome the witnesses.

Joining us in person we have Mrs. Tara Jones, contract manager at Agilec.

Joining us by videoconference we have Mr. Marc‑André Dufour, regional manager of March of Dimes Canada.

From ReTrain Canada Incorporated is Ms. Jeannine Adams, chief executive officer. She is here by video conference.

Witnesses, you will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

Let's start with Agilec right now.

I invite you, Ms. Jones, to make your opening remarks in five minutes or less. Please go ahead.

[Tara Jones, Contract Manager, Agilec]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Tara Jones. I'm the contract manager at Agilec, overseeing the career transition services on behalf of Veterans Affairs Canada. Agilec has been delivering career transition services since 2018. The services are available to eligible veterans, Canadian Armed Forces members and reservists, as well as their spouses, common-law partners and survivors.

The focus of career transition services is to help individuals from these groups explore, plan for and achieve their employment and/or educational goals as they transition from military to civilian life. Services are delivered virtually in both official languages across Canada and internationally for those still serving. Since 2018 more than 5,200 individuals have accessed career transition services, with roughly 700 individuals participating at any given time.

Participants engage with us at various points in their transition journey and with various needs. Some come to us with very clear goals already established, while others are not sure where to start. Some transitioning participants seek entry-level work, while others seek executive-level positions. Serving members may have their release already planned, or they may just want to explore the possibilities. The service is flexible and designed to identify and address every participant's individual needs.

When someone enters transition services, their journey begins with an assessment of their career transition needs. The continuum of services ranges from exploration—of self, of employment possibilities, of training or education requirements—through career and education decision-making to transition planning. Plans that focus on employment may include such supports as job search skills training, resumé writing, interview preparation and job development. Plans that focus on training or education may include assistance with training and institution selection and support for accessing available funding, including the education and training benefit.

Our employment coaches collaborate one-on-one with each candidate, providing support that matches each person's needs and comfort. We strive to empower by providing the knowledge and skills that people require to take charge of their own transition journey. We offer guidance to help the plan move forward successfully. Of the participants who have engaged career transition services, 60% have set goals focused on employment and 40% have set goals focused on education or training. As well, 24% of plans include both employment and education and/or training goals.

The veterans we serve speak about the invaluable support of a partner in the transition process. The voice of veterans is a critical component in our ongoing assessment of the service's effectiveness and impact. To date, of participants who have completed our satisfaction survey, 91% report being satisfied with the support they receive from their employment coach.

I would like to close with some feedback received directly from one of our veteran participants, who secured employment in a civilian occupation through a successful job development match. These are the veteran's own words:

Looking back, this whole process…the transition out of the military…combined with the uncertainty of not knowing when a next opportunity will be lined up, and whether or not my military experience would be good enough…especially after applying to so many positions…would have been extremely draining and disheartening, but thanks to you all, it was such a fulfilling experience.

It is this type of impact that drives our team forward. We are honoured to deliver career transition services and are thankful for the contributions and sacrifices that veterans, Canadian Armed Forces members and their families have made for our country and our freedoms.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Jones.

We will now hear from Mr. Marc‑André Dufour, from March of Dimes Canada.

You have five minutes.

[Marc-André Dufour, Regional Manager, March of Dimes Canada]

Thank you, Chair,

Thank you members of the committee for inviting March of Dimes Canada to take part in this consultation process.

Allow me to introduce myself. I worked as a manager at Canadian Veterans Vocational Rehabilitation Services from 2011 to 2022. My organization provided vocational rehabilitation services for the duration of the contract awarded to the Canadian Veterans Vocational Rehabilitation Services (CVVRS) and the VAC Rehabilitation and Vocational Assistance Program from 2009 to 2022.

Over the past 12 years, March of Dimes Canada has worked diligently to support more than 12,000 veterans and their family as they transition from military life to civilian life. Currently, as I am sure you are aware, the services provided by the rehabilitation program are delivered by a new consortium that we do not belong to. We therefore no longer provide these services on behalf of the government.

I would remind committee members that our role was to serve veterans who have left the Canadian Forces for medical reasons. Our mandates were to assess veterans' functional capacity, provide recommendations for a possible vocational rehabilitation path or a possible diminished earning capacity status and, when appropriate to do so, support veterans throughout the entire process as they reintegrate into the workforce, which can take several years in some cases.

Having been a manager throughout my entire time with these two consortiums to provide services under the federal program, I have specific expertise in some areas, but I am not an expert in every aspect or issue affecting the professional reintegration of Canadian veterans.

When I was writing this speech, I reflected on what our contribution to this consultation process might be. Now that we no longer deliver official services under the program, we believe we are not in the best position to make recommendations for existing and future services. Unfortunately, we are not familiar with the details of the new measures that have been brought in.

That being said, we believe that we can raise the committee's awareness of issues that we consider to be essential and that directly affect the quality of services provided to Canadian veterans and their families.

My first point is on the importance of taking a holistic approach to rehabilitation services. It is important to combine medical and vocational rehabilitation efforts concurrently. We know that the shorter an individual's period of professional inactivity, the better his or her chances at successfully reintegrating into the workforce.

Originally, both under the VAC Rehabilitation and Vocational Assistance Program and CVVRS, medical rehabilitation was managed by departmental case managers before the client was sent to the vocational rehabilitation program. In practice, it became apparent that the rehabilitation process was generally not a linear process. For example, a veteran taking a course with the aim of returning to the workforce may experience a setback that requires resuming treatment. At the same time, a veteran in treatment might benefit from being assigned to a project quickly as a means of motivation and a launchpad to pursuing his efforts in medical rehabilitation.

My second point is the importance of a common and consistent language by all parties taking part in this service delivery.

We believe it is essential to pay attention to the consistency and quality of communications with veterans at all times. Managing a national rehabilitation program involves the participation of several interdependent entities, for example case managers from Veterans Affairs, service providers such as doctors, psychologists, ergonomists and vocational rehabilitation experts, Veterans Affairs Canada as an institution and partner companies that are in charge of service delivery. There are many entities from various backgrounds that have to work together toward a common objective, the well being of veterans and their family. In order to maximize the quality of services provided to veterans, it is critical to ensure that all the players in this process understand service provision under the program as a whole as well as their respective roles within it.

It is also important for the program to be presented to the veterans and discussed with them in a common and consistent language. This may seem simple, but from an operational point of view, this is very complex. It is a challenge that every entity must meet on a daily basis.

My third and final point is the importance and presence of job developers, in other words ambassadors responsible for representing veterans in Canadian companies. This role was brought in midstream within the program run by CVVRS and it had an immediate impact on the placement rate of participating veterans. The role of these ambassadors was to support more directly veterans actively looking for work and especially to create a multitude of connections with Canadians with a view to creating strategic partnerships to encourage the hiring of this skilled labour.

The presence of these job developers, in our opinion, is critical to such a program and suitable within any type of vocational reintegration initiative for Canadian veterans.

I would be pleased to discuss it in further detail with you as you need, and to answer any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dufour. I know that you did everything you could to stay within your time limit. That is great. Now, I would ask you to speak a bit slower to make things easier for the interpreters.

I invite the witnesses not to hesitate to send their briefs or opening speeches to the clerk.

I'd like to invite Ms. Jeannine Adams, chief executive officer from ReTrain Canada Incorporated, to speak.

You have five minutes or less.

[Jeannine Adams, Chief Executive Officer, ReTrain Canada Incorporated]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm Jeannine Adams, the CEO of ReTrain Canada. ReTrain Canada was founded in 2017. We are a for-profit business, initially created to retrain claimants in the WCB world, or the worker's compensation world. Claimants are rehabilitated physically and psychologically, and then we begin with the career or “voc” rehab. ReTrain has put through over 5,000 students to date, and that number of students each year grows.

We train in technology and helping people negotiate the employment and health processes that they need to go through. We have different types of technology that we train in. We're looking to make sure that people are able to get back to the workforce in a very quick way, so all of our courses are incredibly focused. Again, because we basically started our business working with people who had challenges in terms of psychological or physiological concerns, our staff are able to work with people on dealing with those and how they fit into employment.

Our education program was built entirely online. It is live leader-led. That means we're creating training environments like the one we're in right now. It's also very engaging, which is also like this. The instructors are people who have worked in the industries that they're training on.

The types of training that we offer are ones that are very engaging with employers, so we are always on the leading edge. For things like cybersecurity, we are the leader in Alberta for training cybersecurity people. Each year, we put through over 200 students. We also have a fintech program, which people can barely finish before they're employed. We teach people about things like NFTs and cryptocurrency, and we go into the health and wellness sphere as well.

All of our courses are accredited through us. We have microcredentials and then overarching credentials of those. From an industry perspective, employers are starting to understand and value them. Those credentials give people an opportunity to grow and make sure they're recognized.

In terms of the things that we have dealt with, whether it's somebody who's a veteran or someone who has been injured at work, we have a number of students who are considered “hostile-resistant”, because they're in a situation where they do not embrace the changes that have happened to them, so we work with them to move them forward and meet them where they are.

We go through assessment processes with them as well, so that we know from a technology perspective...sometimes it's basic computing that they need to start with, and then we move them through that. We don't want to waste time teaching somebody something they already know, so, as I said, we do assessments. We make sure that they understand the training they're going through and the information they have are very transferable, so we look for those transferable skills.

We've had the opportunity to do some work in the past with re-skilling oil and gas workers, so being able to understand those transferable skills is important. Of course, working with someone from the military, it's being able to have them see what those skills are—lots of leadership skills, for example—and how they transfer into the new world.

In terms of the size of ReTrain, our company has nearly 60 staff now. We have a 22,000 square-foot facility in Calgary. We have a sister company that is s01ve Cyber Solutions. That's relevant, because we take people from our cyber-program and give them internships—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Adams. I'm so sorry, but your five minutes is finished already. You will have plenty of time to respond to questions from members.

Right now I'd like to invite Ms. Cathay Wagantall, for six minutes or less, to ask questions.

Please go ahead.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you all for being here this evening. I appreciate the work that you are doing on behalf of our veterans.

Ms. Jones, my concern is especially around those who find it hardest to find work following their service. In some cases they're very young and haven't served for very long. Our women, ground forces and those who are involuntary or medically released seem to struggle the most. Of the 5,200 individuals you have assisted, are those all veterans?

[Tara Jones]

No. That would be a mix of veterans, CAF members, members who have started the release process, eligible—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Oh, I see. But they're all within the forces or the veterans'—

[Tara Jones]

It includes eligible spouses, common-law partners and survivors as well. However, those numbers has been on the lower end.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Do you have a sense of how many would fit into these categories that I mentioned?

[Tara Jones]

I do have some data: 17% of the population has been female. We do have it broken down further by the eligibility type. The average age is about 58. The youngest is 20, and the oldest we have seen is 79.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's interesting.

How many of those who come to you are in that category of not knowing where to start? Are the majority experienced or...?

[Tara Jones]

I'd say they're at both ends of the spectrum. Some have a pretty clear path and want some guidance and support along the way. Some want a sounding board. Others are not sure where to start. We've seen success with those who enter the services early—CAF members who are thinking about maybe considering...in six months, a year, or a few years down the road. They will get access to their online resources through the services.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

They're choosing to plan ahead, whereas the ones who are maybe younger, think they're in there forever, and then all of a sudden they have an injury or something. Do they—

[Tara Jones]

I'm not sure I would say they're younger versus older. We had a CAF member who knew that they were going to release in a labour market that was a little tough, and they were looking for a pretty senior position in the education field, in a leadership position. They engaged the services early, and then were deployed to Kuwait. They continued to participate in the services. They were able to participate through video call and our secure portal.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

One of the things that we've been learning is that, of course, when they're in the forces they're always being trained for something. They're going through courses and they develop lots of skills, but those aren't transferable directly into their civilian life. It seems they have to retrain. They don't get the same credit for those programs.

When they come to you, do they have a clear understanding of all the things that they've done and what they have available to them? We've heard that they would like to see those skills recognized immediately as they take the courses. They're often the same as the civilian courses. Do you hear a lot about that side of things?

[Tara Jones]

Yes, we do.

It's interesting. There are many participants—or candidates, as we call them—who come to the services looking to do something completely different. It's more like a career change. We're building out the ability to transfer the skills and the training that they've had. Others want to do something similar. For those who have identified gaps, or aren't sure whether there are gaps, we support them, through labour market research, to understand where they fit or what those challenges are. That early access into the services also helps them to plan and take action before they find themselves released.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

You talked about one-on-one communications. When they have that one-on-one at the beginning of their process, is it the same person throughout?

[Tara Jones]

Yes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's good to hear.

[Tara Jones]

Yes, they have a designated employment coach. We also have some employer liaison resources on our team who work with the participants and the coach in collaboration, as well as our employer facing...so they're out building those relationships.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

We're aware that out of 3,455 full-time equivalents working at VAC, only 4.95% of its employees are actually veterans. Within the full public service, there are only 330 appointments of veterans out of the 64,796 hires in 2021-22. For the entire public service, that's half a per cent.

As an HR company or a service provider with VAC, do you work with VAC in the HR side of the public service in assisting them in hiring veterans? It seems like a very low number who are actually employed.

[Tara Jones]

We do have a number of participants who are interested in pursuing the public service. We work very closely with the veterans employment unit to collaborate on public service department events, multi-department events, to raise awareness for the participants on the opportunities—