Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Yes. I'll take that last minute and a half, if you don't mind. Thank you, Chair.

I see in the estimates an increase of 5.8% in the education and training program. Can you speak to that? We had some witnesses here not too long ago who said that the program was expanding and had more uptake. I'd like you to share some information on that.

[Steven Harris]

Thanks very much.

Very quickly, we have seen an increase in the number of veterans coming to use the education and training benefit. It allows them an opportunity to follow a short course up to a little over $5,000, or to use an entire $80,000 allotment for a more formal education program. It's an excellent tool for them to use for transition. It's also a tool that many members use after they've transitioned and maybe even after a second career to find something else they want to do that is of use to them and their well-being. It can be employment-focused or it can be more for their professional development and personal development. We have seen an increase in veterans coming forward to use it, as it is a valuable program, across the broad spectrum of veterans who have left the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I know my time has run out, but I'm going to have to re-educate myself because it was a simple number of $40,000 for six years and $80,000 for 12, and now it's $44,000, $45,000 and $86,000. I see an increase, so I'll have to go back to the drawing board.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

Mr. Desilets, the chair will give you three minutes. The floor is yours.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you for your generosity, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Harris, in September 2020, the Parliamentary Budget Officer felt that hiring temporary employees with contracts lasting about three years was not an effective method of eliminating the disability benefits backlog.

Do you believe that, had we followed the Parliamentary Budget Officer's recommendations, there would be no more backlog today?

[Steven Harris]

I think there will always be a backlog. The normal processing of applications is 80% in 16 weeks. This means that about 20% of the applications could take longer than 16 weeks, even with a larger workforce in the department. Because those applications are complex, it takes time to obtain information, among other reasons.

There will always be some backlog, but we have made great progress in reducing the number of unprocessed applications. The waiting period for francophone applications has gone from 55 weeks to less than 35 or 30 weeks.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I agree that progress has been made and I have said so. I make a point of mentioning that when it is the case. That said, as of December 31, 2022, the backlog of benefits applications was approximately 8,365. That is a lot. There is progress, but, to me, the progress is never fast enough.

Will you offer permanent positions?

[Steven Harris]

I will use the department's budget to ensure that we have the people needed. I will maximize the flexibility I have in managing my budget to make sure that we can retain trained, bilingual, professional people, to ensure that the employees of Veterans Affairs Canada provide the best possible service.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

So, again, the positions are not permanent.

[Steven Harris]

There are permanent positions, and I am always paying attention to make sure that people with temporary positions can get into permanent positions. Whenever I can give a permanent job to someone who has a temporary one, I do it.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Harris, do you believe in the effectiveness and relevance of permanent positions in retaining employees and making them feel like they are part of the organization?

[Steven Harris]

There is no doubt that it is difficult to always recruit, train and retain experienced people. That's always a more positive and effective way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

The last three minutes go to Ms. Barron.

Please go ahead.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

You saved the best for last. Thank you very much.

My question is for Mr. Ledwell.

Mr. Ledwell, currently there is no policy supporting service dogs for veterans. On February 13, this committee received a letter from the Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services announcing that it has completed the work on national standards for animal-assisted services.

Could you please let us know if the department will work with it to establish specific standards for service dogs for veterans?

[Paul Ledwell]

Mr. Chair, I've not seen the letter and would look forward to reviewing it. I think the department is certainly interested in supporting veterans and making sure that veterans have the supports they require. We've done everything we can to ensure that's the case.

We have sought a standard with respect to service dogs, and I know there is a lot of discussion in the community about that.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I am assuming that's a yes to working with the Canadian Foundation for Animal-Assisted Support Services on this.

[Paul Ledwell]

Yes.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Harris.

Mr. Harris, I want to follow up on some of the numbers you were quoting. You were talking about a 30:1 ratio of veterans to case managers. We have information with those numbers, speaking to the fact that there are 90 case managers currently on leave, which as you can imagine, increases that ratio to 37:1.

I am wondering if you can clarify the current caseload at Veterans Affairs Canada and what's being done to address that.

[Steven Harris]

Thank you very much for the question.

The current caseload average across the case managers is 30:1. You're quite right. There are people who go on leave for any number of reasons. When they go on leave, we try to replace them and make sure there's a case manager, whether that's somebody who's acting in a position or someone else we've recruited in on a temporary basis to fill that.

Sometimes there are some gaps and there are some delays between somebody leaving for one reason or another—a new job, a new opportunity—and getting somebody else in, so there is a variability in the number on average. The average is about 30:1, however. We make sure we try to fill any position that becomes vacant by virtue of somebody moving.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

There was also some mention around the caseload not being maintained over the last couple of years and some of the struggles, which I and many of us around this table are hearing about first-hand in our offices. I'm wondering what you would suggest for us to share with veterans who are experiencing a lack of response, a backlog of cases, and are just waiting for an answer as to when they will, and if they will, be receiving the supports they need and deserve after serving.

[Steven Harris]

We have a couple of programs that run differently. If a veteran needs a case manager, they will get a case manager. There are some wait times that exist within disability benefits applications. We've been speaking about that and our need to improve some of our turnaround times on that front.

With respect to people participating in a rehabilitation program, the actual approval rate is quite quick in terms of getting people in the door and established into rehabilitation and focused with a case manager. There's not a backlog in terms of people waiting for case managers. There are backlogs in some other programs, such as our disability benefits, but no backlog for somebody who needs a case manager.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

On behalf of all members of the committee and myself, I'd like to thank all of you from the Department of Veterans Affairs: Mr. Paul Ledwell, deputy minister; Mr. Ken MacKillop, associate deputy minister by video conference; Ms. Amy Meunier, assistant deputy minister, commemoration and public affairs branch, by video conference; Mr. Steven Harris, assistant deputy minister, service delivery branch; Mr. Pierre Tessier, assistant deputy minister, strategic policy, planning and performance branch, by video conference; and Mr. Jonathan Adams, acting director general and acting chief financial officer, finance.

You can stay, but we have to vote on the estimates.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee will now consider the main estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2024.

We have two options. We can vote in one motion on all of the appropriations, or we will have to vote three times on these appropriations. I am asking the committee members if I have unanimous consent to vote in one motion on all the appropriations.

The committee unanimously consents. Thank you.

DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$1,338,917,705 Vote 5—Grants and contributions..........$4,598,995,179

(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)

VETERANS REVIEW AND APPEAL BOARD Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$13,837,908

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Shall I report the votes to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

In closing, I would also like to remind the committee members that next Thursday we will be meeting in camera to instruct our analyst concerning the study on the national strategy for veterans employment after service.

We will also begin the study on the impact of the new service contract, pending the start of our study on female veterans.

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adjourn this meeting?