I agree with the NDP.
Evidence of meeting #72 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was leadership.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #72 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was leadership.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
I support Ms. Blaney on this. I find it unfathomable that we continually find things that are apparently more important than the women's study. If that were not the case, we wouldn't be asking to take time away from the women's study for the other things that have come up and urgently become more important priorities.
I support Ms. Blaney.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
We have five more minutes to discuss this, because we have witnesses with us.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
I agree, and I think it's important that the comment be responded to. We've been in the middle of the women's study since I think April of this year, and things do come up. Supplementary estimates are an example of those things. We have to deal with them. You can't wait until February; they have to be dealt with before we rise for Christmas.
It leaves us in a position where everyone is reluctant to move away for one meeting, but it's required. It's something we are required to do as parliamentarians, so unless you're prepared.... I'm fully comfortable with adding additional meetings if they are required. Unless members are prepared to add additional meetings, it's the only way we can deal with it.
If members are saying they want to add additional meetings, I would be fully happy to do that. If we can find the time for another meeting this week, let's do that.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
I'm fine with additional meetings. I don't want to take away witness time. If I'd known prior to this meeting that this was an important discussion, I would have put my mind to it fulsomely.
The witnesses on Thursday this week are extremely vulnerable, and they're coming to share very important.... They are unique; they are the only witnesses who will come with that particular perspective, which is incredibly important to the study.
I'd be very happy to have an extra meeting. If there's a way we can add an hour on Thursday, I'm very open to that as well. I understand that we need to do committee business, but I want to make sure the study is honoured as it was meant to be by all of us. I know all of us are not debating that at all.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
I understand that. We all know that the women's study is really important and we can add more meetings, but I have one more suggestion. How about having an hour for committee business on Tuesday next week instead of this Thursday, because we don't have any witnesses on the list yet? We have witnesses, but we haven't sent any invitations yet. How about Tuesday?
4:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
On another matter, I'd like to know whether the clerk has any news about our request to invite the two ministers.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
I think the clerk sent a letter telling us that the two ministers couldn't come and testify.
4:10 p.m.
The Clerk
For the time being, the two former ministers declined the invitation.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
In response to my colleague Rachel's comments about the two witnesses next week, I have had witnesses not come because there were three or four witnesses in an hour and they had very little time to try to express themselves and felt they couldn't. Now we have a scenario like we had in another week, when an individual came whose testimony was incredibly valuable but we had no idea what we were facing.
If this is a circumstance where each one of those witnesses needs a full hour, I would appreciate it if we were more prepared on the basis of who the witnesses are.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much.
Let's go back to our business.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Monday, October 3, 2022, the committee is resuming its study on the experience of women veterans.
Today's meeting is being held in a hybrid format. All the connection tests have been done. As you know, this room is equipped with a high-quality audio system, but I would ask all committee members, and the witnesses, to be very careful not to have their headset too close to the microphone to prevent any sound problems. That's for the welfare of our interpreters, who do excellent work.
Before we welcome our witnesses, I would like to provide a trigger warning. We may be discussing experiences related to general health and mental health. This may be triggering to viewers, members or staff with similar experiences. If you feel distressed or need help, please advise the clerk.
I welcome our three witnesses for the two hours.
Today we have, from the RCMP Veteran Women's Council, Ms. Jane Hall, member, and from the Veteran Farm Project Society, Ms. Jessica Miller, CD, founder and director.
We also welcome Ms. Marion Turmine, the director of Quebec operations for the Veterans Transition Network.
You will each have five minutes for your opening remarks. After an hour, we will take a five-minute break.
Ms. Jane Hall, I'd like to start with you. You have five minutes for your opening statement. We already have a copy of it. Please start.
4:10 p.m.
Jane Hall Member, RCMP Veteran Women's Council
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
On behalf of the RCMP Veteran Women's Council, I appreciate each and every one of you for being here in a collegial environment to uncover uncomfortable truths and seek remedies. As honoured members of Parliament, you have not only the power but a duty to ensure your recommendations are acted upon.
My name is Jane Hall. I'm an RCMP veteran, mother, wife, author, past president of Police Futurists International, past chair of the women in leadership team and past member of Rear Admiral Bennett's advisory board. I am currently a member of WREN and the ombud's advisory board, and co-chair of the RCMP Veteran Women's Council. I also lecture at the Law Enforcement Management Institute of Texas.
I joined the RCMP in 1977 and served until 1998. I was an idealistic baby boomer, confident, in my youthful arrogance, that we could change the world. I left the RCMP frustrated and defeated. My book The Red Wall: A Woman in the RCMP was published in 2007. In 2008, I was invited to present at the public safety leadership development consortium conference in Georgia. I joined a powerful networking group of directors of some of the largest advanced public safety educational institutes in the U.S., Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and Australia.
In 2013, two high-profile gender-based harassment lawsuits were launched against the RCMP. At the time, there was no platform for credible, knowledgeable, independent female veteran voices to educate the public and elected officials on the need for systemic change within the RCMP. The RCMP Veteran Women's Council was created to fill that void.
In 2014, Ron Lewis and I attended the experts summit committee meeting in Ottawa, hosted by Senator Grant Mitchell and the honourable MPs Judy Sgro and Wayne Easter. We submitted our 2014 report “Addressing a Crisis in Leadership”, which detailed decades of reports and recommendations that have identified the same toxic cultural issues, the desperate rates of early- and mid-career exits of women compared with men, and essential remedies. Sadly, our council's recommendations have not been actioned.
The RCMP Veteran Women's Council report contained data on the attrition rates of female members from 2008 to 2013 broken down by years of service and rank, and compared them to those of their male peers. It was an uncomfortable truth that I had encountered earlier. In 1984, I included British Columbia division attrition rates in a report to Ottawa, which flagged female attrition rates at three to four times those of male members.
Women, for decades, have been injured physically by poorly designed uniforms and equipment, and by being exposed to toxic work environments that often lead to premature departures from the RCMP. Some only serve for a few years. These women rightly felt silenced and discarded. Many were broken psychologically, and many continue to suffer from physical injuries that occurred during the course of their service. They often do not consider themselves RCMP veterans because they did not serve long enough to receive a pension. The majority of the first and second wave of female members have no idea that VAC is a resource they are entitled to. The research currently undertaken by CAF should be applied to serving and retired RCMP members with the view that, unless there is evidence to the contrary, the more favourable conditions and remedies should rightfully be extended.
Uniforms and equipment not designed for women continue to take tolls on aging bodies. Shift work, isolated postings and specialized duties, such as forensic and drug units dealing with toxic chemicals, create working conditions indistinguishable from some of those that CAF has highlighted. Car accidents while on patrol are common and often devastating. Physical altercations resulting in blunt-force trauma, falls, knife injuries and, increasingly, gun violence-related injuries are just some of the bases for VAC claims.
PTSD is an occupational hazard of operational police work. It is an injury. It is not a character flaw. The use of egg banks and a focus on female reproductive health need to be actioned as soon as possible. No serving member or veteran should be wait-listed if they ask for psychological care.
September 2024 will be the 50th anniversary of women in the RCMP—something that would not have happened if not for the Government of Canada directing the RCMP to allow women to join, without restriction, as Mounties. It took vision and political courage for those members of Parliament in 1970 to direct the RCMP to accept women into their ranks.
It took even more courage for those women to answer the call. They understood that not everyone in the RCMP would be in their corner. They did not know they would be left on their own without organizational or government protection. The women of the RCMP, both serving and retired, have been waiting a long time for backup. Time's up.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Ms. Hall. As you told me at the beginning, it was exactly five minutes. Thank you so much.
Now I'd like to invite, from the Veteran Farm Project Society, Ms. Jessica Miller for five minutes please.
Please go ahead.
4:20 p.m.
Jessica Miller Founder and Director, Veteran Farm Project Society
Good afternoon.
Thank you, Mr. Chair and the committee members, for this privileged invitation to speak to the great work being accomplished in Nova Scotia at the Veteran Farm Project. What I'm going to speak about today is my lived experiences and what I've seen on the farm.
I served Canada for 22 years in the army as a medic and was able to work within all three branches. I loved my time at sea the best. In 2018, I was being medically retired from the forces due to my physical and mental health conditions. It's terrible how common this has become.
I know individuals have come before me to give testimony of traumas they've endured while serving. These reports should not be our new normal. CAF must acknowledge the traumas done to all women and stop ignoring the truth. The truth is that military sexual trauma is woven into the fabric of what makes the Canadian Forces today.
Senior leadership has failed us, period. This sick, pervasive culture and ignorance of reality has given military sexual trauma decades to fester and become a cancer throughout the ranks. DND and Veterans Affairs, to this day, have yet to define what military sexual trauma is. The ombudsman's report, issued November 2020 and updated in May 2023, still reports that there is no clear definition of MST.
Why does sexual misconduct in the forces require a definition that's separate from the rest of Canada? The longer the forces take to give MST the description it deserves, the more that women will continue to fall victim. The second-guessing of themselves and the fear to make any noise cause them extra harm. Give these women the power to understand clearly that non-consensual sexual acts of any kind are not permitted and are not part of the Canadian Forces ethos. Senior leadership needs to give voice to what is really happening. They are allowing women to be harmed by those who should be protecting them.
I understand that all too well. I am a survivor of a long career filled with sexual traumas. I understand the loss of trust and institutional betrayal. It is a deep, festering wound. It is why I decided that the informal support of other women walking the same journey needed to come together. I started the Veteran Farm Project from a need to help others and contribute back to my community. I needed to regain my identity.
Our organization focuses on the healing, discovery and recovery for women. Spending time in nature, getting their hands dirty and looking at beautiful flowers are a few of the ways women find peace and relaxation on the farm. We do not provide formal peer support programs. Rather, we're allowing serving women and veterans a space to use the tools they've learned through other programs on the farm.
Our We Care Food program is now going into its seventh year. To date, our program and volunteers have helped deliver food packages to nearly 300 serving and veteran families. We're reaching nearly 1,000 individuals.
Helping others allows women to spend time together while supporting families with food insecurity. During these days, without even knowing, they are supporting each other through the informal peer support given. When women are supported in a way that fits their needs, they begin to thrive again. It saddens me that nearly all of our veterans and workshop participants on the farm are victims of sexual trauma. That is why the Veteran Farm Project Society is seeing such positive outcomes. It is women sharing with other women the understanding that they all have similar lived experiences.
The project that we started is growing, year after year. It wouldn't be possible without the funding and support we receive through VAC, the veteran and family well-being fund and provincial support from our local MPP. We can't forget the donations from the legions and artisans that also want to help. All of it makes a difference in the lives of veteran women.
Moving forward, I hope to see more local not-for-profit organizations find ways to support women veterans in their communities. Giving a space for women to explore new ideas and try different things only broadens the possibilities of their future. I hope to see long-term funding for projects like ours. We would be able to give them space to grow and we would be able to provide security and forward thinking.
What we do on the farm is very special and successful. We can tangibly see, hear, touch and know we are making a strong difference. It is my hope that one day there will be some beneficial research opportunities to understand how grassroots organizations can be so successful and thrive.
I want thank you again for allowing me to have this time to speak to the importance of giving women a safe place to begin their unique healing journey from the experiences they had in service.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much, Ms. Miller.
Now let's go to the Veterans Transition Network. In Quebec, by video conference, we have Marion Turmine.
Ms. Turmine, you have the floor.
4:25 p.m.
Marion Turmine Operation manager, Quebec, Veterans Transition Network
Good afternoon.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.
I apologize to the English speakers, but because of time, my opening remarks today will be in French only.
My name is Marion Turmine, and I'm the director of Quebec operations for the Veterans Transition Network, I joined the VTN team in April 2018.
I'm an anthropologist, and I have over 30 years of solid management experience in international cooperation for several major international organizations, including nearly 20 years in the field in a variety of contexts, including conflict zones and fragile countries.
For the past five years, I have been working with the Veterans Transition Network. My role with VTNV led me to become a peer supporter for women veterans' programs. My direct involvement with these women's programs has given me a better understanding of the challenges and complexity of the issues faced by women who have worn the uniform and the challenges of transition to civilian life.
The programs we deliver at the Veterans Transition Network, were initially developed in 1998 at the University of British Columbia, and refined over 15 years of development and research.
In 2012, our charity was established to expand these programs to veterans across Canada free of charge, while reducing the barriers of geography, gender, and language.
In 2022, 40% of our programs delivered across Canada were for women, and 25% of our programs were delivered in French.
My testimony today will focus on our recommendations for the development and delivery of mental health services for women veterans. These recommendations are based on the VTN's past 10 years of experience in delivering and evaluating our counselling programs in order to meet the needs of women veterans.
The first recommendation may be summarized as: unique experience, unique needs. Women are a minority in the Canadian Armed Forces and among veterans. This social and cultural reality affects the challenges they experience in service and in transition afterwards.
In our experience working with women veterans, we often hear that to exist as a minority in the Canadian Armed Forces, they work to blend into the larger population of their male colleagues, and they avoid building connections with female peers. As a result, they often lack social and peer support.
Finally, women in our society still perform the majority of family labour such as child care and housework. This places an additional burden on their mental health, and affects their ability to access services and supporters.
Our first recommendation is that mental health services for women veterans must be developed with their unique service, mental health, and accessibility challenges in mind. Services for women veterans should involve social engagement and support, and they must be equipped to deal with the reality of female sexual trauma.
Now for our second recommendation. There is an important difference between a traumatic injury caused by serving an institution, and an injury caused by the institution itself.
In counselling, this is called sanctuary trauma, a traumatic injury caused by a person or a place that was believed to be safe.
Women in the Canadian Armed Forces frequently experience sanctuary trauma. They experience it when they suffer military sexual misconduct, and many experience it again when they attempt to report the misconduct.
This is especially true if they must ask for help from the same institution or system that caused their injury and are disregarded or silenced.
That's why our second recommendation is that mental health services for women veterans must be aware and equipped to address sanctuary trauma. Further, it is important that independent services external to the military system and the government are available for women who have experienced sanctuary trauma.
The third recommendation concerns research and lived experience. In the 1980s, the Canadian Armed Forces opened the majority of occupations to women, thus beginning to expand the participation of women in the Canadian military.
However, the military has been slow to adapt its practices to the participation of women, and as a veterans service provider, we see first-hand the negative impacts of this problem.
We see physical impacts such as chronic injuries experienced by women who have been issued gear designed for men's bodies. We see the mental health impacts of women having to navigate male military culture.
So our third recommendation is that we need continued research to understand the specific challenges that women face in service and in transition. The findings of this research and the perspective of women service members should be integrated in a meaningful way into the planning and decision-making practices of the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Canada.
We believe that incorporating this lived experience into decision making can create meaningful change, which will in future help prevent many of the issues that women veterans currently face because of their service to Canada.
Before concluding, I'd like to thank women veterans for their service to our country.
Thank you for your time. I welcome your questions.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much, Ms. Turmine.
Thank you Ms. Miller and Ms. Hall, for telling us about your experience. You are very courageous.
We will now move on to the second round of questions. Each party will have six minutes. We'll take a break after that.
I invite Mrs. Cathay Wagantall to go ahead for six minutes, please.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you so much, Chair.
I would like to thank you all for being here today and for what you're providing to us. It's very important.
I would like to put my first question to you, Ms. Turmine. Your program is one of my favourites. It's so impressive that you are part of this. First, how did you end up being engaged in this program?
Also, this program is not actually offered by VAC. You work independently but you are obviously supported by VAC in veterans coming forward. Why do you think the organization went in that direction, if you're aware of it? I know you're newer to it.