Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[Caleigh Wong]

The incident that happened while I was on duty, right before my basic training happened, was reported by someone other than me, and I was told what the timeline would be for how things would roll out and that I would be expected to testify at a certain thing and that this person's unit in Cape Breton would probably facilitate that to a certain degree.

That was the last I heard about it. I wasn't given a follow-up about that. The last I heard about this was when I was telling the story to someone in my unit. I named the person, and they said, “Oh, yeah, he's still in Cape Breton at his home unit.” I don't imagine anything has happened there.

There have been other reports that I've been somewhat a part of. On the ones that have anything to do with sexual violence or discrimination, I can't think of one that I've been a part of or that I've heard about that has seen what would be my idea of justice.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Even when you had the chance to share with your peers about the incident or this terrible experience, was there any other action taken to address the Snapchat you mentioned, or the child pornography or the Asian fetish? I imagine that these kinds of things are still happening right now in the military. Is that right?

[Caleigh Wong]

The only story I shared or alluded to in my testimony on which I will say something did happen quite quickly had to do with one of the instructors on my basic training course. He had talked about wanting to sleep with one of the students after the course was done. That came to light along with many other things he was doing. He was calling students faggots and he said the “N” word at one point during the course. That came to light with our course warrant officer—a higher-up—and he was removed as an instructor from the course. Other than that, no penalty came to him.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Not to say that it will repeat itself, but what would you like to see if another member of the CAF experienced a situation similar to what you experienced? What would you suggest to our committee would be a better way of addressing concerns like this?

[Caleigh Wong]

With regard to the example of the instructor on the basic training, I think that a big thing is not just acting in the short term to make the situation more comfortable for everyone. In that situation, he was removed from the course as an instructor. However, that was it; that would never have been on his record. It would not have impeded his ability, as an instructor, to be an instructor at other basic courses. It was just the immediate fix.

With regard to that specific example, I think that when an issue like that comes to light, it needs to be marked in a way that has an impact on their total career and on their character as a soldier, not just with a circumstantial solution.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I believe my time is up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, MP Miao.

We're going to take a short break. We're going to try to have Ms. Hayward with us. I will pause the meeting for a few seconds.

Communication with Stephanie Hayward has been restored.

Ms. Stephanie Hayward, you have an opening statement even though you have sent us a lot of material.

You have five minutes for your opening statement. Please go ahead.

[Stephanie Hayward, Veteran, As an Individual]

Hello. My name is Stephanie Hayward. I am a Canadian veteran.

I attended basic training in Saint-Jean, Quebec, in 2009. Little did I know that I was in more danger entering a basic training campus on Canadian territory than if I had deployed to go to war in a third world country. I was drugged, kidnapped and gang-raped while attending mandatory training. The last thing I remember is dozing off in class after our lunch break in the cafeteria, and waking in complete fear in an unknown location, with motel staff waking me. I was completely naked, with no identification, covered in blood and bruises, and I couldn't walk. While the military government covered up a crime, the criminals climbed the ranks.

I was forced into poverty and suffered medically untreated conditions for 11 years. I experienced homelessness, extreme poverty and poor living conditions, and for many years I could only feed my daughter and not myself, as I couldn't afford food or essentials.

In both my pregnancies I had severe complications and pain from untreated physical conditions from the military injuries. The pain got so bad for my second pregnancy in 2020 that I was put on bedrest and prescribed morphine. Both of my children have medical conditions due to complications in labour due to military injuries.

After four attempts to apply to Veterans Affairs over the years of 2010 to 2020, in 2020, when I was hospitalized for extreme PTSD and depression while pregnant, a social worker advocated for me to apply to Veterans Affairs again. I was approved for the rehabilitation program 11 years after the date of my release. Veterans Affairs, even with my being in a rehab program, didn't help me when I was on bedrest and on pain medications while in the hospital, or with medical expenses, even when they were directly related to my military injuries.

In November 2020 I started with the OSI clinic at Deer Lodge in Winnipeg. I started my PTSD therapy, and it truly saved my life. I'm so grateful for the team of doctors and professionals, as I was able to get secure housing to provide a safe and stable home for me and my children.

I want to make it very clear that I'm extremely grateful for the Veterans Affairs programs and benefits, as they had a huge part in gaining stability in my children's lives and my own. The matters I'm going to speak on are in areas where women fall through the cracks because the programs are designed for males and their anatomy.

Having received an award in 2021 of 21% for sexual dysfunction and the first critical injury benefit for sexual assault in 2021, and also other disability claims that equal 100% due to my military conditions, I still have been fighting for basic treatments, such as pelvic floor and physical therapy related to my women's reproductive health issues from my military injuries. I have spent the last three years fighting for medical treatments and have been denied. I've had to pay out of pocket, just to be told that women's reproductive health hasn't had any treatment codes for women since 1992. I live in chronic pain and have been fighting for basic medical coverage for the last 14 years, and I received no pay from Veterans Affairs until 2020.

As a single mother, I have very little support outside the home. Sometimes I have none. I had to fight for two years to get the Veterans Affairs independence program, as I was told I was choosing to be a victim over a survivor when I was just asking for assistance in my home. With being the lowest-paid veteran and Veterans Affairs only allowing me to apply in June 2020 and Veterans Affairs refusing to pay for the lost years of pay, it resulted in a huge overpayment by Veterans Affairs, taking disability lump sums, withholding of my pay for the rest of my life, and a huge tax burden.

Also, due to the new threshold for income replacement, I'm not entitled to career progression, even with having a DEC—diminished earning capacity—decision. The monthly amounts are not enough to cover my basic needs and allow me to attend my rehabilitation program appointments, and with the delay of reimbursement, fighting for dependent care is making it impossible to continue.

Even after I might finally be able to start pelvic floor therapy and other treatments related to physical health, my children have high-cost needs from my military injuries, causing them to need ongoing treatments and rehabilitation, with no coverage or help from Veterans Affairs.

My question for Veterans Affairs is this: Why are women not worthy of the same standard of care and entitled to the same benefits as our male counterparts? Women veterans' pay is 17% less than it is for males.

Second, why doesn't Veterans Affairs care for veterans' children? We are raising the next generation of potential serving members, as I came from two serving grandparents, and my children had better coverage while I was on assistance. Military veterans' children deserve better, and they matter too.

The headlines talk about national defence and sexual misconduct, but no one looks at the treatment of victims. They are being retraumatized in working with an outdated system and outdated beliefs at Veterans Affairs. Veterans Affairs has the ability and the resources to help empower women veterans. Instead we are forgotten service members.

I have an educational background in community economic development. I have a list of recommendations for programs that can help bridge the gap of services.

My right to serve was stolen, but I hope my testimony today will help protect future recruits at basic training...human rights and help improve aftercare for sexual assault for all women.

I would like to thank the sexual resource centre, the Bureau of Pensions Advocates, VETS Canada, the Poppy Fund and the national defence and Canadian Armed Forces ombudsman for helping me try to navigate this very complex process.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Ms. Stephanie Hayward.

As I said, if you need a break during this session, just let us know. Thank you also for your service and courage.

We've already started questions with members of the committee, so we're going to continue.

I'm sorry, Ms. Hayward. The interpreters ask that maybe during questions you go a little bit slower. I know that you said you wanted to stay within your five minutes for your opening statement, but the interpreters ask you to go a little bit slower.

Dear committee members, kindly indicate who your question is for.

Mr. Luc Desilets now has the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, colleagues.

Ms. Hayward and Ms. Wong, thank you for being with us today. Thank you also for your service to the country. You are extremely brave to share your experiences with us, things that were not always easy.

Ms. Hayward, do you still have outstanding claims with Veterans Affairs Canada?

[Stephanie Hayward]

I've been trying to fight with them since I started. I tried to appeal it twice for the income replacement, as my pay is actually honoured by SISIP as a basic corporal, but Veterans Affairs won't honour that amount, even though my injury was from 2009 and SISIP long-term disability honoured that pay.

The problem is that SISIP is paying me one amount and Veterans Affairs is paying me a different amount. There are two programs, but they do not coincide, so I'm not entitled to the 90% pay of my release; I'm only entitled to the threshold, which is substantially lower than what my pay would have been today.

I'm trying to fight with them, but they took overpayments and they've taken disability payments and they've taken my pay. Anything they can take, they've taken.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you have any other outstanding claims right now?

[Stephanie Hayward]

I'm hoping to have some help. I've kind of hit a brick wall. At this point, I don't have any resources to pursue any more because VAC says this is a military grievance, but then when I talk to DND they say it's a VAC issue. I'm just between two different people telling me it's this one's fault or that one's fault, but no one.... Other veterans who were hurt at the same time as I was have basic corporal pay, but I'm not entitled to it.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Would you say that your military service had an impact on the physical or psychological health of your children?

[Stephanie Hayward]

Yes. Due to my labour for my daughter, because of the scarring that I received from my sexual assault and the pain that I was in, I was on bedrest. I was contracting early on, but then when I was in labour with my daughter, she got stuck at nine and a half centimetres. She couldn't engage more because of my scarring. I actually tore my cervix because I couldn't properly deliver. It was due to untreated scarring and injury because of a sexual misconduct.

That was in 2009, so I was six years without medical treatment.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

With regard to your claims, did Veterans Affairs Canada take into account the problems you experienced during labour that you say are related to your time in the armed forces?

[Stephanie Hayward]

They said no. They said they wouldn't look at it because it's childbirth, so it's another misunderstanding about women's health, and they wouldn't even consider it.

I was literally hospitalized for extreme depression. I had to go for surgery. When they were counting down, I didn't want to be alive anymore. I told them I was in so much pain and my kids deserve better, and I woke to a social worker helping me apply for VAC and stuff, but they wouldn't even cover mental health supports when I was in the hospital while I was pregnant. I was having a complete mental breakdown because my nightmares were the worst when I was pregnant because it's the same traumatic experience to my insides that it was in my assault. It makes the nightmares and the night terrors flood back. I was in extreme pain, extreme poverty, struggling with a four-year-old and pregnant.

They still wouldn't cover the time that I was there, even after being on a ward at the rehabilitation program. They still wouldn't cover any of the treatments. They said it was because it was pregnancy-related, but it wasn't. They wouldn't even listen to my gynecologist at all. They prescribed me morphine when my son was born. The doctors don't prescribe that for just anybody.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Would you encourage young people to serve in the armed forces?

[Stephanie Hayward]

Coming from a family of military professionals who served, I love the idea of serving because you get to travel and you get to experience different things. I think if the culture could change and actually respect human rights....

I understand that you can't control every single person who comes into the military and you can't judge them when they first come in, but the fact is that after my injury, I was treated like a criminal. I was treated like I was the bad person because I wouldn't change my story to meet their mandates. Instead of treating me like a human being, they treated me like an animal and kept me in basically a sea can until I was to go home because I wouldn't change my story to what they wanted it to be. They threatened me by saying I could keep my employment as long as I changed my story to whatever brackets of hazing they considered my assault. They consider it as a hazing, like a ritual. They didn't consider it a sexual assault. During the last three weeks of my basic training, before I was to go back home, while I was being contained, they threatened my life and they showed me all those things.

If they can change and hold people accountable and treat people fairly and provide essential medical treatment after an assault.... If I had been provided a rape kit at the time of my assault, they would never have questioned my injuries, because there would be proof and evidence and I could charge somebody criminally. Because they destroyed evidence and they did these things, I couldn't come forward with any information because they were the ones who hurt me.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

I forgot to welcome one of our colleagues, MP Sonia Sidhu, who replaced Mr. Randeep Sarai. She's on video conference.

I would like to ask Ms. Blaney to take the floor for six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I want to thank both the witnesses for their powerful testimony today.

We've heard again and again from women veterans that they often feel their experience is invisible. In both of your testimonies you talked very clearly about how what happened to you was made invisible; there was no follow-up, there was no rape kit provided, there were no actions taken to move forward. I think this just re-emphasizes that reality of feeling invisible and ignored.

I'm going to start with Ms. Wong, but I'm asking both of you the question.

One of the things that has been very clear through this study is that data is a concern. Because it's isn't gathered appropriately while women veterans are serving, when they get to VAC it's often challenging to prove the things that happened, because that data is not there.

I have a two-part question. First, what data do you feel should be collected in the future so that when you get to VAC you actually receive the supports you need? Second, should that documentation happen internally, in the same way that it's happening now—when things happen, everything is reported internally—or should it be an external process so that there's a step away from the CAF while reporting incidents like the ones you experienced?

Ms. Wong, can I start with you first?

[Caleigh Wong]

Thank you.

I think Stephanie will probably be able to speak a little more to data in terms of going to VAC afterwards.

I do think that it needs to be externalized. The nature of the military environment is that in PMQ situations, you are friends with, live with, cohabit with, train with everyone you work with. In military settings, sexual assaults usually happen with people the victims already know. I think the entire mechanism of reporting of data for incidents should be externalized, because even if there was a more casual way to make note of something happening rather than engaging the formal reporting mechanism, I think that would be beneficial.

I hope that's answered your question. I know it was a two-parter, and I'm struggling with the other part.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I think you got it. Thank you.

Ms. Hayward, would you comment?

[Stephanie Hayward]

The problem with regard to my assaults and the information that was collected was that the pensions advocate had to call basic training in Saint-Jean, Quebec, to get my medical file, which was sealed in an area and was never attached to my VAC document. The only reason I was able to go forward with my critical injury benefit was that we found the medical documents. They treated me for my sexual assault and I had everything to keep me alive, but they wouldn't provide a rape kit.

When that information got to VAC, my decision was awarded through the medical information that was on file, but Veterans Affairs still doesn't use that information as valid information. Even though it comes directly from DND, it's still not recognized as information on my file to prove my medical conditions, even though it was enough to award a critical injury benefit.