The Chair is not certain the Chair heard the accusation that the member was lying, but the Chair would ask all members not to address other members in that way under any circumstances at any time.

PairingPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Ted White Reform North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, if there is evidence that can be shown to me that people in other parties do not always vote their party line, I would be pleased to see it.

The speaker from the government side tried to mix the participation in debates with the voting, as if somehow the debates were meaningful. The fact is even on government bills there is hardly anybody in this place. Members stood today and acted as if this place was full of people taking notice of the debate and not even a dozen people are here.

PairingPrivate Members' Business

February 6th, 1998 / 1:55 p.m.

NDP

John Solomon NDP Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The Reform private member is casting aspersions upon all members of this House by making reference to either presence or non-presence of members of Parliament, talking about naivety—

PairingPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The hon. member for Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre is quite right in saying that we have a convention not to refer to the absence or presence of other members. He was perhaps stretching the notion of a point of order and went into debate. The hon. member for North Vancouver.

PairingPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Ted White Reform North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, we are certainly hitting some nerves today. And we understand why that certain convention is in place, don't we?

They talk about tradition. The member opposite on the government side talked about tradition and how we could not change anything because we have got to live up to tradition. The fact is, he just wants to find a reason not to do something. It used to be tradition in this place that there were not any women. It used to be tradition in this place that we sat for six weeks a year. The fact is it does not have to be a tradition. We can change anything we want to in this place.

To say or to imply that the only reason one would want to vote by proxy is to avoid ever coming here is also ridiculous. The proxy votes would be under the control of the whip. The whip would not have to allow a single person to be absent. But the whip would have the right, if necessary, to issue a proxy vote privilege to a member who had to be away for some reason.

I just see it as a modernization of the procedures of the House. To say that the member has to be in the House to vote is just a crock frankly. As anyone except the most naive will know, most members monitor the proceedings of the House on television from their Hill offices or their riding offices when they have to be away. There is absolutely no earthly reason why a member could not provide an intelligent proxy vote on any type of bill.

As a member myself who has the opportunity to speak many times in this House, I take ever possible opportunity to do so. Every day that I am here on duty I get up to speak in this House. I recognize the value of speaking here. But to pretend or to claim that I would not be able to vote intelligently if I was not standing in here every day is totally ludicrous. In these days of telecommunications, members simply do not have to be here in order to make intelligent voting decisions.

I think we should wrap it up here. It has obviously created a fair amount of emotion among the members. If I have been successful in anything today, I would be thankful that I have done that because we should be discussing these things, and frankly, we should be doing it openly and publicly. We should not be pretending to the public out there that certain things happen here when they do not. And the public already knows they do not.

The public knows that people vote the party line in this place. The public knows that MPs for the most part do not represent them. They represent the parties. We really have to do something to put real democracy into this place instead of constantly pretending.

PairingPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

There being no further members rising for debate and the motion not being designated as a votable item, the time provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired and the order is dropped from the Order Paper.

It being 1.58 p.m, this House stands adjourned until Monday next at 11 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 1.58 p.m.)