Debates of June 5th, 2000

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution Act

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

The recorded division on Motion No. 8 stands deferred.

The recorded division will also apply to Motion No. 11.

The next question is on Motion No. 16. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

The recorded division on Motion No. 16 stands deferred. I will now propose Group No. 3.

[Michelle Dockrill, NDP, Bras D'Or, NS]

moved:

Motion No. 13

That Bill C-11, in Clause 12, be amended by replacing line 35 on page 4 with the following:

“good mine safety, to provide permanent, full-time employment to the residents of the Island of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, and to conduct its operations in a manner that benefits the economy of the Island of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.”

Motion No. 14

That Bill C-11, in Clause 12, be amended by adding after line 10 on page 5 the following:

“17. The Corporation, in conjunction with the Government of Canada or of Nova Scotia or any agency of either of those governments, shall adopt and continue all reasonable measures deemed necessary to reduce as far as possible the unemployment or economic hardship that is expected to result from the closing, privatisation or reduction in the production of coal.”

[Peter Mancini, NDP, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

moved:

Motion No. 15

That Bill C-11, in Clause 12, be amended by adding after line 10 on page 5 the following:

“17. The Corporation shall adopt all reasonable measures to reduce, to the fullest extent possible, any economic hardship or unemployment that may result from the closing of any coal mine operated by the Corporation.”

Madam Speaker, I rise to speak to the Group No. 3 motions moved by the member for Bras d'Or—Cape Breton and by me with regard to Bill C-11. A fair amount of quoting has been going on. I began my debate on Group No. 2 by quoting from the arbitrator's decision. Following that there was some quoting by the member from Bras d'Or of former Liberals, notably Prime Minister Pearson and Allan MacEachen.

I should point out that the arbitrator too quoted from the debates of 1967. This is what the arbitrator had to say about the passage of the Cape Breton Development Corporation Act and specifically section 17 which, as I said earlier, is the section we relied on to suggest that this package was not fair from the beginning. I will read what the arbitrator wrote. This is not political rhetoric. This is the actual decision.

On June 20, 1967, when the legislation was being examined in committee of the whole House when there were Liberals on that side who believed in the dignity of the working people—

[An hon. member]

When was that?

[Peter Mancini, NDP, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

That was in 1967. Let me go further because section 17 provides for the government to do whatever is necessary to reduce hardship. There is some sense of history repeating itself because here is what the arbitrator wrote on June 20, 1967, and here we are on June 5, 2000. Members of the New Democratic Party, in particular David Lewis, and of the Progressive Conservative Party, in particular Robert Muir who represented the community I represent today, expressed concern about the language of section 17 and proposed amendments which would have required Devco to provide alternate employment for employees laid off as a result of a mine closure.

In 1967, some 32 years ago, New Democrats stood in the House and suggested to the Liberal Party which was in power that there should be alternative employment for the miners in Cape Breton in the event of a mine closure. Here we are 32 years later fighting the same fight. Once again it is members of the New Democratic Party who are arguing that there should be fairer treatment of the miners in Cape Breton.

That being said, the Liberal government of that day did move section 17. So far we have Lester Pearson, Allan MacEachen and now we have Jean-Luc Pepin in 1967 talking about the need to take all reasonable measures to reduce as far as possible any unemployment or economic hardship that can be expected to result from the closure of any mine. That was then.

Today we have the pretender to that throne in Berlin talking about the Canadian way, proudly boasting that his party understands the need for government intervention in a mixed economy. While he says that, while he speaks the words of Lester Pearson, Allan MacEachen and Jean-Luc Pepin, his government passes a bill that refuses to allow Cape Bretoners to have the majority of the vote on the board of directors.

That is covered by the group of amendments we have already dealt with, so let us look at this group that the government will oppose. Let us read my motion and compare it to Jean-Luc Pepin's bill that the Liberal Party passed. Jean-Luc Pepin said that all reasonable measures to reduce as far as possible any unemployment or economic hardship should be taken. Let me read my motion:

That corporation shall adopt all reasonable measures to reduce, to the fullest extent possible, any economic hardship or unemployment that may result from the closing of any coal mine operated by the Corporation.

Those are the words of the New Democratic Party today. Those were the words of the Liberals 32 years ago.

[An hon. member]

What happened?

[Peter Mancini, NDP, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

That is a question that Cape Bretoners will ask. That is a question Canadians should ask. As the Prime Minister stands in Berlin and delivers his speech on the Canadian way, the headlines say that the Prime Minister wants to take the party back to its roots. Its roots are here. When members opposite vote down these amendments and vote in favour of Bill C-11 they will have ripped up the roots of the Liberal Party.

I know this is not easy because I have had discussions with colleagues of mine on the other side. I know that they struggle with it. Some members opposite shake their heads. When the member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar talked about the labour situation in Colombia, some of the members shook their heads. I know they said he was not being relevant.

Let me tell the House what will happen with the passage of the bill. The number one asset of the Cape Breton Development Corporation is the contract to sell coal to Nova Scotia Power. It is worth millions. The proposed buyer for the assets of the Cape Breton Development Corporation will be an American multinational that will ship coal. It is already coming in. It is already feeding Nova Scotia Power. It is turning a profit for Colombian mine owners who murder trade unionists in their country.

When the bill passes there is no guarantee that Cape Breton coal will be mined. There is no guarantee that Cape Breton coal miners will have work. The government cannot guarantee that. We asked it that at committee.

I urge members to ask the minister in their caucus meeting whether Cape Breton coal will feed Nova Scotia Power. Will it feed that asset? The minister should be honest with his own caucus. Members will have an opportunity to find out at the caucus meeting. I urge members of the Liberal Party who believe in the vision of Pearson, Pepin and MacEachen to ask the minister in caucus whether there a guarantee that Cape Breton coal will feed the Nova Scotia Power contract. If he says yes, with some guarantees, I think they can vote in conscience on Bill C-11, but I do not think he can give them that guarantee. I know he cannot give them that guarantee.

I asked the chairman of the board when he testified. We asked the miners. We asked the minister when he came. We asked Nova Scotia Power who it would buy coal from. It said whoever could produce quality coal at the cheapest price.

In a year, when Colombian coal is coming into Sydney harbour, if it comes and it will, it will be on their shoulders and the responsibility of members of the Liberal Party. They cannot say they were not told. I have told them. They cannot say they were not warned. They have been warned.

Tomorrow night we will see how they will vote. I should say for the record what is going on here tonight. This is one of the last debates on the amendments to the bill. We are having the debate tonight in extended hours because government members, again in an effort to push the legislation through the House, moved a motion that we would have extended hours. We have extended hours and there has only been passion in this debate by members of the New Democratic Party.

On behalf of the people of Cape Breton, I want to thank the 20 members of the fourth party in the House who have led the fight with my colleague and myself to try to bring forward some justice. It has only been us. We have been alone.

Let me conclude by talking about what a miner's wife said to me who came to testify before the committee. I ask Liberal members to listen. I will admit that after she testified we went out for a beer. There were two young former Liberals there. We went down to D'Arcy McGee's for a beer and surprise, surprise, there was a Cape Breton band playing. The bar was packed as they played Celtic music. This woman looked at me and said “Peter, I do not understand it. They like our music. They like our culture. Why do they hate us so much?”

[Michelle Dockrill, NDP, Bras D'Or, NS]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. There does not appear to be a quorum in the House.

And the count having been taken:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

There is no quorum. Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

I see a quorum.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Madam Speaker, it is the second time in three hours I have had the opportunity to rise in defence of Cape Breton miners. Mind you, my hon. colleagues from Bras d'Or—Cape Breton and Sydney—Victoria seem to do an extremely good job on their own in defending the interests of Canada and workers within the Cape Breton area.

My number one concern is that the member of the New Democratic Party from Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar understands the situation completely and wholeheartedly but the Minister of Natural Resources who comes from Saskatchewan does not even have a clue as to what is going on. Why is that? Why is it that the minister displays such arrogance toward Cape Breton people that it permeates throughout the entire Liberal caucus and over to members of the Canadian Alliance, the Bloc and the Conservative Party who have been very silent on this serious issue.

One story I have not yet told in the House is that my father worked in the coal mines of Holland. After the war he was an electrician and worked in the coal mines in the south of Holland in the territory of Limburg. In the late 1950s and early 1960s Holland decided to shut down the coal mines. The answer at that time was outmigration. For thousands of people, including my mother, father and six of us, and I was just eight months old, the only answer was to leave the country.

My father was a POW during the war. Holland was liberated by the Canadians. The 55th anniversary of the liberation of Holland is this year and there will be a big celebration in Halifax from June 10 to 14. That was a little plug for my veteran friends.

My father always said that with a military like that, imagine what kind of country it is. In 1956 we came to Canada. During the 1950s, 1960s and 1980s we prospered and did very well as a large family. If my father were alive today, he would hang his head in shame over what the Liberals are doing to the people and the miners of Cape Breton.

The amendments the two members from Cape Breton have put forward are very simple and reasonable. They are almost identical to amendments Jean-Luc Pepin proposed in 1967, as we heard the hon. member for Sydney—Victoria say. They are almost word for word what one of the famous Liberals said back in the 1960s.

What do the Liberals of the year 2000 say? There is complete silence. They obey like lapdogs and sheep. I know most of them are not. I know most Liberals personally and they are very independent thinkers and fight for their constituents as well. But when it comes to legislation like this, they become lapdogs and sheep in the hands of one individual.

That individual is the Minister of Natural Resources. He has displayed his arrogance on every single question when it comes to Devco. His attitude is one of resistance, not one of help, understanding or anything else.

As the hon. member for Sydney—Victoria has stated very clearly, the Liberals have a very simple task to do. Ask the minister tomorrow or whenever they get the opportunity, will Cape Breton coal be used in Nova Scotia power? It is a very simple question.

We want to have economic opportunities. The people of Cape Breton have a right to economic opportunities, as do all Canadians from coast to coast coast. As the hon. member for Sydney—Victoria pointed out, it may very well be imported coal that fuels the power for Nova Scotia. That does not make any sense at all.

The hon. member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar pointed out that in Berlin the Prime Minister was talking about the Canadian way and how we have a public pension and everything else but he forgot to mention that it was the Liberal government through forced legislation with closure that took the $30 billion surplus from the superannuation fund. That superannuation money belonged to all current and retired members of the public service. That $30 billion was taken in a flash. The money belonged to retired judges, military personnel, RCMP, public service workers and anyone who has ever worked for the public service. The money was taken by the Liberals to use at their bidding.

It is very similar to what the Liberals did with the EI legislation which also hurt the people of Cape Breton. They took that money in a huge surplus. Of course, the Canadian Alliance's position in its 1997 document was to give it back to the employers, forget the workers and just give it back to the employers.

The New Democratic Party is here to ensure that all parties, especially the government, do not ignore the workers and the plight of the families of Cape Breton. I can tell anyone listening out there and our fans in the gallery here that if the government can do it to Cape Breton, it can do it to any other spot across the country. Why? The precedent will have already been set.

Let me remind the government that the people do not want its pensions. They do not want a handout. They do not want buyout packages. They do not want to sit around. They want to be able to work, just like every other Canadian across the country. All they are asking the centrally based and centrally thinking government to do is to get out of the Windsor to Quebec City corridor and send a committee down to Cape Breton to listen to the stories and the truth. It would hear about the impact of the government's decisions on Cape Breton's people, families who have been there for generations and generations.

I am the New Democratic Party's critic for fisheries and oceans. I have seen what former Conservative and current Liberal policies have done when the enactment of DFO policies hit the inshore fishermen of Nova Scotia, and all of Atlantic Canada for that matter. It was absolutely devastating.

We all remember the 1992 cod collapse when 40,000 Atlantic Canadians were forced onto the welfare and assistance rolls and their livelihoods were taken away. What was the answer? Corporatization of a public resource, the fish stocks, and the system of ITQs, individual transferable quotas, given away to corporations, many of them large financial contributors to the Liberal Party over the years. If we connect the dots and follow the money, we will see exactly why the decisions of the Liberal Party have been made.

For the life of me, I cannot understand for one second why a backbench Liberal would not accept the rational amendments in Groups Nos. 2 and 3 in order to have Cape Breton representation in the bill. That is all we are asking for, for them to have representation when decisions are made. They do not like decisions being made in Ottawa. They want decisions that are made for the people of Cape Breton by the people of Cape Breton. That is common sense and, I would say to the Prime Minister who is now in Windsor, it is the real Canadian way.

It is too bad that the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Official Opposition, the leader of the Bloc, and Mr. Joe Clark of the Conservative Party collectively did not have the backbone and spine of our leader the hon. member for Halifax. If they did, they would understand exactly what is going on.

As the member for Winnipeg North Centre said about the tragedy of what is happening to health care in this country, the only solution for the Liberals, the Canadian Alliance and the Conservative Party is to privatize it, just like they did to the fish stocks. Again when the dots are connected it will end up in their corporate friends' hands.

I must say it is unfortunate that the Atlantic caucus of the Liberal Party came up with something called “Catch the Wave”. In it was a shipbuilding policy. They have been snooping in on NDP caucus meetings again because we have been fighting for that as well. It is another example of how the Liberal Party again has constantly ignored the issues which affect Atlantic Canada, my new home province of Nova Scotia and the beautiful island of Cape Breton.

There was a gentleman here before, a 17 year member of the Liberal Party, named David Dingwall. Where is David right now? Whoops, he lost. There was another member, and I am sure a lot of Liberals are very appreciative of the fact that Mr. Doug Young is now gone. When we speak to a lot of the Liberals, they are very pleased that man is gone, along with his arrogance which he displayed to the Canadian people and Atlantic Canada.

I only have one minute left but I just want to say this one last time and I say it practically on bended knee. I cannot get down because I will be ruled out of order. To my friends in the Liberal Party and to members on this side of the House, especially to my friends in the Canadian Alliance, the Bloc and the Conservative Party, please have a good night's sleep tonight. I ask them to look into their hearts and support the amendments brought forward by our two Cape Breton representatives. I assure everyone that things will go much smoother in Cape Breton if such a thing is done.

I have appreciated the opportunity to speak once again on behalf of the wonderful people of Cape Breton.