House of Commons Hansard #108 of the 37th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was norad.

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National Children's Memorial DayPrivate Members' Business

6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Scott Reid Canadian Alliance Lanark—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, on February 20, I raised a question in question period expressing my concern with the federal government's unwillingness to respect provincial jurisdiction in its budget, which had been delivered a few days earlier. I noted that while there had been nationwide disappointment with the budget expressed by many provincial governments, opposition to the federal budget had been particularly clearly stated in the Quebec legislature.

The then minister of finance for Quebec, the leader of the ADQ and the finance critic for the Quebec Liberal Party, which was still at that point in opposition, all expressed their complete disapproval of the federal government's interference in provincial jurisdiction. At the time I wanted to know why the minister did not trust the provinces to administer programs for health, families, social housing and education.

The minister responsible for intergovernmental affairs gave a most unsatisfactory response to my question. I am here today to further question the federal government's infringement on the rights of the provinces to deliver social programs such as education.

Let me give a clear example of the kind of insensitivity to educational priorities that has been shown in this budget.

In Bill C-28, the budget implementation act, the federal government plans to retroactively amend the provisions of the Excise Tax Act relating to school bus transportation. This takes place after the federal government lost a test case in Quebec and was ordered by the courts to pay back GST paid by the schools for transportation. Astonishingly, the Liberal government's solution is not to simply pay the money that it owes to school boards, but instead the budget is pushing through a retroactive clause to justify a tax on local school funding that the courts have said is unlawful.

Technically speaking, the federal government may have a legal right to impose retroactive taxes on schools, but it goes without saying that there is no moral justification for this. Money that would have been used to educate our kids will now have to be diverted to the bottomless money pit known as the federal consolidated revenue fund.

This is not just a Quebec issue. In Eastern Ontario, the Upper Canada School Board will be particularly hard hit by this retroactive tax. This school board will be deprived of $2.59 million. That is $2.5 million that could have been used for school repairs, the hiring of more teachers, or for the replacement of infrastructure.

My fellow Ontario Alliance MP, the hon. member for Renfrew--Nipissing--Pembroke, has raised this issue in the House of Commons, poignantly stating the problem as well as the effects it will have on school districts in her riding. On May 12 she stated, and I quote:

The decision to grant only a partial GST exemption of 68% to school boards for the supply of transportation services has meant that school boards have had to pay millions of dollars in GST payments to the federal government instead of applying the funds to important educational requirements.

That applies to the Upper Canada School Board as well which is in my riding and it applies to school boards in many other parts of the country, particularly in Quebec where this test case took place.

Therefore I ask the parliamentary secretary this. How can she and her minister claim that the federal government is working, as he said in his response to my question in question period, cooperatively with provincial and local authorities when it refuses to even allow them to keep moneys that it owes to them under the law?

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:05 p.m.

Shefford Québec

Liberal

Diane St-Jacques LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak in this debate requested by the hon. member for Lanark—Carleton who, on February 20, asked the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs about the federal transfer payments to the provinces and funding for various social program.

The member for Lanark—Carleton is suggesting that the current government does not trust the provinces to administer programs in these sectors. He also maintains that additional tax points are, as he puts it, the only way to guarantee stable and long-term funding. On these two points, I beg to differ with my hon. colleague.

First, it is incorrect to say that our government does not trust the provinces to administer their social programs. As the minister himself said on February 20, in each of these areas, our government has, in fact, established excellent cooperation with the provinces. So, it is incorrect to say that the Canadian government does not trust the provincial governments.

My time is limited, and I would have liked to examine this issue more fully, but I want to provide just one example of this spirit of cooperation: the agreement on health signed last February 5.

Under this agreement, the first ministers agreed on a new health plan that would contribute to improving health care in all areas of the country. The Canadian government will contribute $34.8 billion to this plan over five years, to alleviate the current pressure on the health care system, to establish a health reform fund for home care and catastrophic drug coverage, to purchase diagnostic and medical equipment, and to invest in information technologies.

In addition, every year, governments will inform Canadians how the funds will be used to meet the targeted objectives.

Clearly this is not a sign of any mistrust in the ability of the provinces to manage their social programs. I would see it more as a willingness of the two main levels of government to work together for the greater good of the people we are called upon to serve.

I was just talking about health, but there are other social sectors that our government is addressing under the Canada Health and Social Transfer. The government will make $37.8 billion available in 2003-04 for such areas as health care, post-secondary education, social assistance, social services and early childhood development.

Of this amount, almost $17 billion will be in the form of tax points. The formula the member for Lanark—Carleton refers to in one of his questions on February 20 is already used by our government for funding social programs throughout Canada.

I am therefore surprised that the Alliance member would raise this issue in the House today. In my humble opinion, the government can be proud of its record in federal-provincial relations. It is because of its spirit of cooperation that this country has become what it is today and it is in this same vein that we intend to continue making it prosper in the future.

That is why I feel the statements by the member for Lanark—Carleton are unfounded and I wanted to refute them.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:05 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Scott Reid Canadian Alliance Lanark—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, on the question of the unreliability of federal funding to provinces, the federal government has a much larger tax base than the provinces and certainly more than the local authorities, such as school boards and municipal governments.

For that reason there is a perpetual problem with what the government in Quebec refers to as fiscal disequilibrium, what the rest of us might think of as a simple incapacity of the provincial governments, without a reliable, stable and growing source of funding as the population grows and ages, to take care of their vital needs. That includes being able to take care of health care.

Uncertain federal funding has created tremendous problems for provinces in this regard. Very little of the excise tax collected on gasoline is passed on to the provincial governments. When it comes to the question of school buses, we find that in its relations with local governments and school boards, the federal government is unwilling to simply allow them to keep the money to which they are legally entitled. This is a serious problem and I do hope the government will take it seriously.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:10 p.m.

Liberal

Diane St-Jacques Liberal Shefford, QC

Mr. Speaker, my Alliance colleague can criticize our government's policy with regard to the provinces if he wants, but the facts belie the alarmist report he seems to take pleasure in giving.

When our country succeeds, in almost all areas of human endeavour, in being one of the top and most enviable performers in the world, it is okay to say, very humbly, that Canada is on the right track.

Quite honestly, I do not think that we have anything to learn about respect, cooperation and, above all, tolerance from the Canadian Alliance in terms of our relationship with our provincial partners.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:10 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, on May 14, I asked a question of the Minister of Human Resources Development.

As you are well aware, the Atlantic crab fisheries crisis in northeastern New Brunswick and Gaspé has been widely covered by the press all over the country. This was certainly not the way we wanted to make the newspapers. This was certainly not how we wanted to advertise the beauty of our part of the province to people in the rest of Canada and the rest of the world. Unfortunately, though, it has happened.

There have been victims of this crab fisheries crisis, and those victims are the fish plant workers who have not been able to go to work.

Today, in L'Acadie nouvelle, there is a headline that reads, “Caraquet fish plant workers overworked and exhausted”. The article goes on to quote the workers as saying “The crab fisheries were put off, and now the only way to reach the quota in time is to bring in huge catches. We are working like crazy”.

If that is what is happening at the present time, heavy crab catches and fish catches arriving at the plants at the same time, obviously the people will not have time to accumulate the number of weeks they need, even the number of hours required to be eligible for employment insurance. They will not get enough weeks of benefits to take them to the next season.

This is a crisis that is taking place. Once the crab fishery is over, there will be people who do not qualify for employment insurance and who will not have jobs.

I asked the Minister of Human Resources Development very clearly if she was ready to meet with representatives of the workers who are dealing with the crab crisis so that they can explain the situation to her. The minister may not want to listen to the member for Acadie—Bathurst and she may have issues with him, but she could at least meet with the representatives of the workers so that they can explain the problem to her.

Unfortunately, she responded that $90 million had been given to the Government of New Brunswick. I expect that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development will again mention this $90 million. However, this $90 million was already allocated for programs to diversify the region's economy, to provide employment and training for people. This money has already been promised to people who do not have jobs. That is why we needed a special program, and why we still need one.

My only question for the ministthe er is a simple one. Is she prepared to meet with representatives of the workers? We do not want to hear about the $90 million; we have already heard about it 90 million times. That is not what we want to hear. We want to know if the minister is prepared to meet with the representatives. She will say, “Yes, I am ready to meet them”, but she has yet to set a time and place for the meeting. The representatives want to have a meeting with the minister.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:15 p.m.

Shefford Québec

Liberal

Diane St-Jacques LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, certainly the government is aware of the challenges facing seasonal workers in the crab processing industry, both in Quebec and New Brunswick. We know that seasonal workers contribute to the local economy, and they must also overcome obstacles that other workers do not face.

As the hon. member mentioned, the crab fishers have now gone out and the plant workers have been able to start work, and they are working very hard. But I want to reassure the House that, throughout the boycott by the crab fishers, we kept the door open in case the workers wanted to discuss possible solutions.

As the minister said in this House, I will say again, and I will quote her for the benefit of my hon. colleague:

I never refused to meet with these Canadians, who are important for our country, and I dare hope that the hon. member will see, in light of my record, that I have never hesitated to meet with Canadians no matter where they live.

So, this is proof that the minister is listening.

Moreover, the governments of New Brunswick and Quebec have both announced measures to help those workers affected by the recent boycott. In New Brunswick, training programs were extended so that affected workers qualify for EI. In addition, the Government of Canada pledged to ensure that the EI plan would continue to meet the needs of workers, including seasonal workers.

Recent changes to the Employment Insurance Act, such as the elimination of the intensity rule, were designed to meet the needs of seasonal workers.

But the best way of helping workers in the long run is more jobs, not more employment insurance benefits. That is why we are continuing to help communities diversify their local economy and create new employment opportunities.

Perhaps the hon. member will not appreciate what I am about to tell him, but I will say it anyway. In 2002 and 2003, the Government of Canada transferred nearly $91 million under the labour market development agreement signed with New Brunswick.

Under this agreement between Canada and New Brunswick, the province is responsible for developing and implementing locally employment programs with funding from the EI plan.

Through this partnership, the government can support the development of long term solutions to employment problems specific to seasonal workers in that province.

We are continuing to ensure that our programs meet the needs of Canadians to the greatest extent possible.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:15 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, the only new thing I have learned is that that $90 million seems to have become $91 million, which is one million dollars more.

It is simple, because the minister said in her reply:

—to ensure that workers have access to jobs and long term opportunities.

No, she has not done so.There has been a crisis in New Brunswick and the Gaspé. We are talking about something out of the ordinary. That is what we are talking about.

The parliamentary secretary says that the minister is prepared to meet any Canadian who wants to talk to her. For the information of the House, two weeks ago, the Association des travailleurs et des travailleuses de la péninsule acadienne sent a request to the minister asking to meet with her; she never answered the request. I personally faxed a letter to the minister last Friday; she still has not answered the request. And the workers want to meet with her. Not next fall. Now.

So, is the minister prepared—yes or no?— to meet with the workers from northwestern New Brunswick and the Gaspé? Yes or no? It is simple.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

Diane St-Jacques Liberal Shefford, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to confirm the minister's promise to meet with New Brunswick workers. She said:

I have never refused to meet these Canadians, who are important to our country, and I would hope that my record would show the hon. member that I have never hesitated to meet Canadians wherever they may live.

I wish to conclude by saying, as I have said many times, that workers can count on help from our government and we will continue to do what we can for the workers affected by this situation.

National Children's Memorial DayAdjournment Proceedings

6:20 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Monday, June 2, at 11 a.m., pursuant to order made on Tuesday, May 6.

(The House adjourned at 6:20 p.m.)