Debates of Nov. 7th, 2006

National Defence—Main Estimates 2006-07

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, in terms of the provincial reconstruction team, could the minister share with the House the amount of spending by DND that actually goes to reconstruction and is actually being spent on reconstruction?

We know an enormous of money has been spent so far on the tanks and on upgraded vehicles, but has there been a similar increase in the spending on reconstruction work by the PRTs, and what have they spent that money on?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I said, we have had to increase the protection on the PRT to ensure they are effective. The only money that I can talk about with respect to the PRT is the DND portion. I think we are spending something like $3.4 million on projects there but I have asked the military chiefs to look at possibly increasing the DND portion of development projects under the PRT.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I was hoping to get some kind of indication on what projects have been completed by the PRTs but maybe the minister could go into that later.

I would like to ask some specific questions regarding support operations in Kandahar. Who owns the Kandahar air base? I know we employ some local Afghans there but what about the base itself. Is it owned by the Afghan government, by the Americans or by a private company? If so, which one, and how much does Canada pay for the use of the facility for our troops and equipment?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, the base, as such, is owned by the U.S. government at this time but it will be transferred to the ownership of NATO. I do not have the immediate cost at hand right now but we pay a proportional share of running the base. There are British, American, Danes and a whole bunch of people at that base and we pay our proportional share.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, on procurement, I know the minister made a number of announcements over the summer. These included supply ships, new transport aircraft and helicopters. I wonder if he could tell us now how far along that process is and what considerations have been made for Canadian industrial involvement?

Many people have said that the process around the heavy lift aircraft seems to be tantamount to a sole source contract. I wonder if the minister can assure us that it will not be sole sourced and at what stage this is in the process now?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, with respect to the heavy lift aircraft, I believe the choice is the C-17. As I said about all the projects, all the projects are doing dollar for dollar. They will be invested in Canada so that hundreds of companies in Canada will benefit from this.

In the case of the support contract, I believe Boeing will manage the support contract but it will be employing Canadians in the support contract.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I have spoken to the minister personally in the past about Arctic sovereignty and I know t he also takes this issue very seriously. One of the Conservative Party's election promises concerned icebreakers. I would like to know where the government is and where the minister is with that right now. There have been suggestions that instead of icebreakers, that hovercraft could be used in the north.

I wonder if the minister is aware of the significant difficulties experienced by the Canadian Coast Guard when using hovercraft in cold water and cold air conditions in the Gulf of St. Lawrence as the spray freezes and builds up as a thick ice on the equipment. Certainly this would be an even bigger problem in the north. I wonder if the minister could comment both on where we are with icebreakers and the other issue around hovercraft.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, our policy asks that the navy be able to operate in three oceans, that is the Atlantic, Pacific and the Arctic Oceans. The navy was tasked with looking at a number of options of how it would achieve that and , what kind of vessels it would need to achieve that. It is looking at a range of vessels and we are waiting for the recommendation.

Once we get the recommendation, which will be part of our overall defence strategy, we will need to seek the approval of the cabinet. At that stage we will know what we have.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am not exactly sure what that answer meant. Does that mean that the government is committed to the election promise that it made around icebreakers or does it mean that the government is waffling on that now?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think the waffle was a part of the NDP in the past. It is not part of our group. We are not waffling on it. As I have said, the navy is looking at a range of options and I am waiting for the recommendation from the navy.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I take it that is a commitment to proceed with icebreakers for the north.

I would like to ask some more questions with regard to the north. Are there any U.S. military forces stationed in the Canadian Arctic? Does the United States operate or maintain underwater acoustic sensors anywhere in the Canadian Arctic? If so, is the surveillance information obtained shared with Canada, especially now that the Norad agreement has been expanded to include the sharing of maritime surveillance, including, as the minister clarified to me earlier this year, in the Northwest Passage?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, to my knowledge there are no U.S. military stationed in our north and there are no U.S. military sensor systems operating under water in our north or in any other place.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I thank the minister for his very clear answer.

I want to return now to the situation in Kandahar. At the defence committee, a question was raised about the auxiliary police of the Afghan national police system. It was reported that they were hiring teenagers, giving them 10 days of training and an AK-47 to work as auxiliary police officers around the road in Kandahar that Canadians are working to build.

I am wondering whether the minister has had an opportunity to investigate that situation. What are the minister's feelings about youngsters with AK-47s being brought on board as auxiliary police officers for the Afghan national police?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I understand it, the auxiliary police were authorized by the Karzai government. These youngsters are 18 years or older. They may be teenagers in a teenage sense but they are adults and they are trained to use weapons. They reinforce the local police and the local army.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, in terms of Afghanistan and the Canadian mission there, the minister knows that we have had some very serious concerns with the counter-insurgency nature of the mission.

I would like to know how the road building is going in Kandahar? When does the minister expect that project will be completed?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think the hon. member is referring to the road where we have had six Canadians killed. It is progressing quite well. There is now a sharing of costs. Basically, we have been building the road but there is now a sharing a costs and Germany will be picking up the price to pave the road. The Americans are picking up the price of building a bridge and we are picking up the price of other parts of the road. The road is progressing quite well and the number of attacks in that area have decreased over time.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am pleased to hear that and I think Canadians will be pleased to hear that. Of course we all hope there will not be any further loss of life as Canadians work to provide that kind of transportation in Afghanistan.

The minister has said before that the situation in Afghanistan will not be resolved by military means alone, which is something we in the New Democratic Party certainly understand.

What kind of diplomacy is taking place at this point in Kandahar province? What kind of relationship do the Canadians on the ground have with the governor in Kandahar province? I guess I would ask the minister how he foresees the diplomatic part of our role in Afghanistan proceeding? It appears from any information that we are getting that is not part of the mission at this point.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order. I just want to ensure that everyone is aware of the procedures here. Although the Minister of National Defence likes to take all question related to the mission, it is quite clear in Marleau and Montpetit that the questions should pertain to the minister's portfolio. The question being asked by the hon. member would be one, I would suggest, better suited for the Minister of Foreign Affairs, not the Minister of National Defence. I therefore would humbly suggest, Mr. Chair, that the question be ruled out of order.

[The Chair, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

Actually the 15 minutes has run out. The minister may or may not want to respond. If he does, I will give him a few seconds. If not, we will move on to the next section.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will respond that it is basically a foreign affairs question. The only area in which we get involved with the government, the Karzai government not the Kandahar government, is with our strategic advisory team in Kabul.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, this past August, I had a unique opportunity to get to know our Canadian Forces better. I joined in an all-night military training exercise in Kamloops, British Columbia. I had only an hour's rest that night but that was more than most of the camouflaged soldiers who stood around me. These soldiers were dirty, tired and had been living on military rations for weeks. However, as the dawn broke, their mood was jubilant. They were celebrating. After weeks of intense training in the wilderness of those mountains, these soldiers emerged into the early sunlight that morning to be congratulated as the members of Canada's newest regiment. They were now part of Canada's special forces and I was so fortunate to get the opportunity to tag along on their final night of training and to stand by them that morning during a mountaintop ceremony.

My conversations with the soldiers through the night had been brief because most of the time they had to remain silent. Their jobs require stealth. Despite the brevity of our conversations, I gained insight into the kind of people they are. They are strong, confident and even fierce, but they are also humble and very approachable. They have families and friends, homes, future plans and career ambitions.

Some members might be asking what that has to do with tonight's debate. Tonight's debate is about the 2006-2007 main estimates for National Defence. To some, these numbers are just financial allocations, but to me these numbers represent real people, equipment, support and operational achievement. They represent real things that are happening on the ground, in the mountains around Kamloops, at the air force base in Trenton and as far away as Afghanistan.

I want to remind the House that at the heart of every project, plan and initiative that we talk about this evening are people, real people, amazingly dedicated people. They are soldiers, sailors and air force personnel of our Canadian armed forces.

The Minister of National Defence framed this debate well by laying out the program activity architecture that is now guiding the work of the Department of National Defence. As he said, the overarching goals of the Department of National Defence are threefold: first, to have a military in which Canadians have great confidence; second, to succeed in our operations; and third, to support the Government of Canada, to contribute to Canadian society and to extend Canada's influence in the world.

However, National Defence is not alone in this. The Treasury Board requires that all federal departments use this type of planning and accountability structure. Nonetheless, it is important—if we want to debate defence expenditures—to remember the goals of the department.

When I reflect upon the department's three strategic outcomes, I am reminded that none of them can be achieved without the brave Canadians who volunteer to put on a military uniform every day. Our investments need to reflect the essential role that people play in Canada's defence and security.

The current government is determined to do more.

We need more soldiers in uniform so that the burden on our existing troops is manageable. This year, the government initiated a program to increase the regular force by 13,000 and the reserves by 10,000.

To meet these targets, we are also working to expand and modernize both our recruitment and training systems. Indeed, as of this month, 30% of applicants are now being processed within one week and 50% within one month.

We are currently getting double the recruits compared to this time last year, but the answer does not lie solely in increasing numbers. We also need to take better care of the members we have, whether they are in training, on deployment or returning home.

Our forces can be sent on high risk deployments. When they return, some have to cope with painful physical, mental and emotional wounds. They endure long periods of separation from their families. Even when they are not deployed on operations, they and their families have to manage frequent postings across the country and abroad.

The demands of a military career are high and are borne by both members and families alike. They bear these burdens in order to serve our country. As a government and as parliamentarians, we have a responsibility to make sure they are well compensated for the jobs they undertake and are adequately cared for in their times of need.

That is why the Minister of National Defence personally went to the opening of the operational stress injury social support centre at Gagetown in May. Not all military wounds are visible. Many military personnel suffer from operational stress injuries that are difficult to detect.

In 2002, the operational stress injury social support program was created as a peer support program for Canadian Forces members suffering from these unseen wounds, but the dedicated program staff at CFB Gagetown had been working out of their own homes and coffee shops for the last four years, so the Minister of National Defence went to the opening of their first permanent office, confident that they will now be able to provide even better service to the Canadian Forces community.

That is just one small example. The government's efforts to support our military community are much broader than that. We are working hard to provide fair pay and allowances, to improve base infrastructure and housing, and to provide appropriate compensation for special forces and other members engaged in our operations.

As Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, I have visited military communities across the country to hear directly from our troops and their families and to find out what they need. I have toured bases from B.C. to New Brunswick. I have talked to the troops. I have visited with families and friends at the military family resource centres. I have been to London, England to talk to British officials about their experiences with military recruitment and retention.

I know, and this government knows, that more can be done for the army, navy and air force than has been done in the past. The supplementary estimates recently tabled by this government reflect our commitment to do exactly that.

Supporting the people of the Canadian Forces must be an ongoing effort. We must be attuned to the unique needs of our military personnel and we must be heartfelt in our response. It is often said that we have some of the most highly qualified military forces in the world, and that is absolutely true. I have seen at first hand how true this is. I am grateful that they are the people defending our nation. They can be assured that this government is fully dedicated to supporting them.

I would like to use the balance of my time to ask the Minister of National Defence a question. The new security environment requires that the Canadian Forces maintain multi-role, combat capable defence forces while integrating and increasing their interoperability with their defence partners. Combat capable and interoperable forces will become more important in the future as the Canadian Forces operate increasingly in failed and failing states, including complex urban areas.

In addition, the Canadian Forces must also strike a balance between capabilities required for domestic defence and those required to support international operations. In order to achieve this, would the Minister of National Defence outline the transformation that his department is currently undertaking to introduce these new groups of capabilities?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, transformation will help ensure that the Canadian Forces can act quickly in the event of a domestic or international crisis. The CF will arrive on the scene faster, will move more effectively within theatre and will have increased capability to sustain deployments.

The first step in achieving this was to establish a clear delineation between the strategic and operational levels of command by creating a dedicated strategic joint staff and four operational level command structures. I will speak to two of the operational level command headquarters as way of illustration.

The first is Canada Command. It has the sole authority for the conduct of all routine and contingency domestic operations in Canada. The second principal headquarters is the Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command, which ensures that the Canadian Forces will be able to address threats to Canadian security beyond our borders. CEFCOM is the sole operational authority for all conduct of international operations.

One of the hallmarks of transformation is establishing a clear delineation of command responsibilities, one for international operations and another headquarters for domestic operations.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, the minister touched briefly on the issue of recruiting in the armed forces and the plan by the new Conservative government to increase the regular force by 13,000 and reserves by 10,000.

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts recently heard positive feedback from the Auditor General on efforts by the CF in recent years to improve recruitment and retention levels. By 2005, Canadian Forces had stopped the decline in the number of trained and effective members and was actually showing a small increase.

At that time, the department was working toward a national recruiting strategy to bring more focus and cohesion to its recruiting efforts and was working on performance measures for 2007 to help it assess the success of its recruiting efforts. As well, National Defence has taken action to improve its military human resources management and is examining ways of improving its human resources information.

That was a long preamble, I understand, but could the minister elaborate on the specific efforts by the Canadian Forces over the last few years to improve recruitment rates and highlight what progress has been made to date?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, in the fiscal year 2005-06, we have achieved 106% of our strategic intake plan, effectively increasing the strength of the Canadian Forces by more than 1,000. Over the course of this fiscal year, a larger force expansion was announced. This new plan will see the Canadian Forces move to a total paid strength of approximately 75,000 regulars.

Advertising plays a huge role in the attraction process. After all, if people do not know we are hiring, they are less likely to apply. The Canadian Forces advertising budget was recently increased from $8 million to $15.6 million, which is similar to a comparable allied nation such as Australia.

With respect to retention, we continue to develop and build a retention strategy with a view to enhancing the Canadian Forces culture for retention. From quality of life initiatives to fair compensation and education and training opportunities and to family and member support initiatives, we know that all of these types of initiatives contribute to establishing a two way commitment that is essential for creating and sustaining a culture of retention.

To establish conditions for success, the military human resources group has undergone an internal reorganization consistent with the chief of defence staff's principle in which we have established a command-centric, operationally focused entity known as the military personnel command, led by the chief of military personnel.

Internally, we have reorganized the focus on specific lines of operations and to separate policy from service delivery. This new structure is more in keeping with the military personnel generation function and provides the command-centric view so necessary for providing clear direction.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, there is no doubt that Canadian Forces personnel serve Canada well, both in operations abroad and here at home. They are Canada's force of last resort and, as such, Canada asks them to put their lives in harm's way when necessary.

Therefore, it is important that this nation provide, sustain and improve the standard of health care offered to Canadian Forces members at home and abroad. Various parliamentary committees have been made aware of the initiatives undertaken by DND to implement a plan that ensures Canadian Forces members have access to comprehensive primary and occupational health care and that the Canadian Forces have an effective health service system that responds to training and operational needs.

Would the Minister of National Defence outline the initiatives that his department plans to undertake in the coming year to ensure that Canadian Forces members have proper health care?