Debates of May 17th, 2007

National Defence—Main Estimates 2007-08

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Well, that is what they say.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, why has this taken so long? Has the delay been from the air force? Has it been from the Chief of Defence Staff, or has it been from the minister's office? It is incredible to me that this file does not move.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, the military comes up with the requirements. It defines what it requires. It even defines when it needs it. My part of the project is to ensure that it project makes sense, that it is within our policy, which it is, and that we have the funds for it.

At the moment, the air force staff have yet to come forward with its concrete proposal of what it wants to do in the future for search and rescue.

[The Deputy Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

We now move to the next round and the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence has the floor.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, I will allocate 10 minutes to this speech and five minutes for questions and answers.

Mr. Chair, the debate today is about the 2006-07 main estimates for the Department of National Defence.

We are examining the expenditures to ensure that the Department of National Defence can continue to operate and that the Canadian Forces can carry out their mission.

Over the past 16 months, as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, I have had the opportunity to meet a great many members of the Canadian Forces.

I have come to know them. I have come to know their families. I have visited them where they have been posted, where they train and where they unselfishly risk so much to carry out the duties assigned to them. I have gained a great respect for the Canadian Forces and what they do every day, the very real and very human face to the pages and pages of seemingly abstract figures presented here tonight.

Tonight we are discussing numbers. Canada has regular forces of just over 64,000 and a reserve force numbering 24,000. Approximately 2,500 Canadians are currently serving in Afghanistan. Last January, I travelled to Afghanistan to gain a better appreciation of the conditions under which our troops were living and working. I met soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen from all ranks, regular force and reserve force.

I spent time with our task force in Kandahar. I met with the provincial reconstruction team. I spoke with them about what life was like outside the wire and back at camp. They took me to visit their barracks. They showed me how they get needed equipment and they gave me a taste of what they did for fun and recreation.

I also visited the Afghan national army barracks and saw for myself the progress that we are fostering. I was impressed. Morale was high. Enthusiasm and pride abundant. Of course everyone misses Canada and their families, but many soldiers commented on their desire to return for a second or third deployment.

At the main base in Kandahar it was also plain. Keeping in mind the environment they are working in, some of the comforts of home our soldiers need to stay fresh and sharp were readily available, things like hot showers, regular mail delivery, a thriving ball hockey league, good food and phones to call home to keep in touch with loved ones. And they have a memorial, a place they can go to quietly pay their respects and remember their fallen friends and comrades.

Canadians can be proud of their professional and well-trained armed forces. Canadians should be proud of what they have accomplished in a poor and conflict-ridden country over a very short period of time. Our forces are making the world a better and safer place for Canadians and for those less fortunate than we are.

The job of this government is to support their efforts, and that is exactly what we are doing. With budget 2006, this government provided $5.3 billion over five years to help rebuild and revitalize the Canadian Forces. Budget 2007 has further recognized the tremendous demands we place on Canadian Forces members and the unique needs of our veterans and military families.

This fiscal year the defence budget will increase by $2.1 billion. Notably this fiscal year, the portion of the overall defence program, dedicated to capital projects, has increased to 21%. DND has increased the allowances of our soldiers. Veterans Affairs Canada has established funding for five new operational stress injury clinics across the country. We know we need to keep up our efforts, but let us look beyond the numbers and what our investment really means.

During my visit to Afghanistan, I stood at a medical clinic in Camp Sherzai where I met an Afghan man named Ramazan. One evening last fall, as he walked home in Kandahar city, Ramazan became the innocent victim of a suicide bomber. Having lost his left leg in the blast, he faces a difficult future made a little easier by the generosity of the Wheelchair Foundation of Canada, which has distributed 560 wheelchairs to ensure that Ramazan and others like him can retain their mobility.

This was a project initiated by an anonymous Canadian donor, a second world war veteran. Canadians kept this project going by sending donations large and small. Like the generous Canadians who have made an impact through their donations, the Canadian Forces are helping to stabilize and rebuild Afghanistan, doing their jobs quietly helping Afghans and making a huge impression. They are establishing a secure and stable environment to allow for much needed development and reconstruction.

This year's report on plans and priorities recognizes the important work carried out by the Canadian Forces.

The stated outcomes—within the program activity architecture—help to guide the men and women of the Defence team. They are:

First, Canadians’ confidence that DND and the Canadian Forces have relevant and credible capacity to meet defence and security commitments;

Second, success in assigned missions.

Third, military forces have an impact, provide informed professional advice with respect to the decision-making of the Government of Canada, contribute to a strong sense of Canadian identity and heritage, and exercise Canadian influence in the global community.

To achieve these goals requires careful planning and prior organization, a step by step process toward success. Based on this, DND has established its priorities for fiscal year 2007-08.

Our priorities mean that the Canadian Forces must be capable of providing support to provincial and municipal authorities when in crisis such as a flood, or a forest fire or a catastrophic storm threatens here at home. They mean supporting other government departments and agencies in protecting Canada's borders.

Internationally, they mean making our mark in places like Haiti, the Sudan and Afghanistan and fulfilling our international commitments to the UN, to NATO and to our allies.

However, to be successful in operations Canada needs to ensure our regular and reserves have the training, the people, the financial and materiel resources they need to do their duties.

This government is making the Canadian Forces an employer of choice, ensuring that benefits for our men and women in uniform are commensurate with all they offer Canada. This government is also working to implement its “Canada First” defence strategy. This is dependent upon not only good people, but also good equipment. Therefore, we are moving ahead with major capital acquisitions.

In the past year alone we announced plans to acquire or signed contracts for strategic and tactical airlift, medium to heavy lift helicopters, medium and heavy trucks, joint support ships and Leopard 2 main battle tanks.

At the same time, we are strengthening our key defence relationships through active participation in the United Nations, NATO and Norad. Of course the foregoing priorities require an administrative efficiency. That is why the Department of National Defence is making the procurement system more responsive. We are doing so by buying more off-the-shelf products and by reducing the requirement for costly prototype development and customization.

In conclusion, the goals and priorities of the Department of National Defence allow Canada to take up its leadership role in the world.

Canadians wish to be world leaders. This spirit of leadership spurs a young man or woman to don the Canadian Forces uniform in order to protect their fellow citizens or to help stabilize and rebuild a distant country. The Canadian government's responsibility is to ensure that the Canadian Forces have the means and the capacity to carry out these responsibilities.

That is why, Mr. Chair, the main estimates presented this evening are so important.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, Canadian reservists in army, navy and air force reserve units of the Canadian Forces are an integral part of Canada's defence mission. Together with the regular force counterparts, they have selflessly committed themselves to defending Canada and Canadians in North America and helping Canada ensure that we live in a peaceful and stable international community.

These reservists are exemplary citizens and they make us all proud. Not only are they serving Canada in the Canadian Forces, but as citizen soldiers, they are also representatives of the Canadian Forces to their communities and to the Canadian public. In many respects they are ambassadors of the CF to their families, neighbours and civilian co-workers.

In domestic crises, whether it may have been wildfires in British Columbia, flooding in Manitoba or ice storms in Quebec, these reservists have answered the call. In our current mission in Afghanistan reservists have answered the call and are serving with distinction alongside the regular force and our NATO and Afghan allies.

I remind the assembled members that, under the terms of service of a reservist, all of these deployments are voluntary. Reservist who respond to a domestic crisis or international deployment have to balance their civilian lives, their career, family and other civilian responsibilities with their service and dedication to Canada and Canadians.

Like their regular force counterparts, they have made the choice to serve Canada. It is an admirable one that all members here respect and pay tribute to.

This service is invaluable to Canada. That is why Canadians are pleased to hear that the Government of Canada has announced a modernized pension plan for the Canadian Forces that, for the first time, extends pension coverage to reserve force members.

Could the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence provide the assembled members with details on how this modernized pension plan will benefit our men and women in the Canadian Forces, both in the regular force and reserves?

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am happy to answer the member's excellent question.

This government was pleased to introduce a modernized pension plan for the Canadian Forces that benefits regular and reserve members of the Canadian Forces. This modernization was recommended in 1998 and now we are following through and getting the job done for the Canadian Forces.

All members of the Canadian Forces, regular and reserve, will benefit from the modernization of the pension system. These changes will improve the quality of life of our members. They will encourage Canadians to join the Canadian Forces. They will also encourage our regular and reserve force members to continue their service to Canada and Canadians.

For the regular force, the changes to current pension arrangements include a broader range of pension benefits.

The reserve force is the last large federal public sector workforce without a pension plan. It is estimated that in excess of 21,000 reserve force members will now be entitled to coverage under the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act.

Implementation of the new pension arrangements will give all CF members pension coverage comparable to the pension plans provided to other federal public sector employees, and the coverage will still take into account the exigencies of military service.

For example, the new pension arrangements include an immediate pension payable after 25 years of service in the CF and also provide an expanded opportunity for the portability of members' earned pension entitlements. This means that pension credits will not be adversely affected by members' military service and Canadian Forces members will have greater financial flexibility and security in planning their future.

The modernization of this pension plan is of benefit to all Canadian Forces members, both regular and reserve, but as the member has pointed out, it is also a historic recognition of the service of reservists. Their contribution to the defence of Canada and support of Canada's role in the world are appreciated by all Canadians. Canada's new government is pleased to extend pension benefits to our brave men and women in the army, navy and air force reserves.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, improvised explosive devices are one of the most deadly things that our men and women in Afghanistan have to deal with. They have been a scourge for many years. They show up unpredictably. They take their toll in lives and injuries, not just for Canadians but for Afghan civilians as well.

This government of course is moving to give the Canadian Forces the capability to deal with devices like this and to keep our men and women safe. The government is rapidly moving to make sure the Canadian Forces have what they need to get the job done in this area. Canadians know this and support it, and they know it is the right thing to do.

I would like to ask the parliamentary secretary to describe to the assembled members how the plan to acquire a new detection and route clearing system is coming along.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, this responsibility is being fulfilled by acquiring a new detection and route clearing system for the Canadian Forces. This new vehicle-based system for detecting, investigating and disposing of explosive threats such as improvised explosive devices and mines will provide Canadian soldiers with the protection they need.

This is an urgent operational requirement and these proven systems will ensure that it is met.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Before I recognize the member for Halifax West, I will ask him how he intends to package his time.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chair, I will splitting my time with the member for Oakville and the member for Richmond Hill. We each will ask questions for approximately five minutes.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

You have a block of 15 minutes. It is all yours.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate your kindness.

My question is for the minister. The government ordered tanks that will not arrive until after February 2009, but the minister said tonight that the government has a responsibility “to make sure that they have the right resources at the right time to do their jobs”.

Does this mean, in fact, that contrary to what we have heard, the government has in fact committed to have our troops in southern Afghanistan after February 2009?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, the 20 tanks that we are leasing from the German army should be in Kandahar sometime in July or August, and the 100 tanks we are buying from the Netherlands will be here in October or November of this year.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chair, these tanks, I understand, cost in the range of $650 million. That is the amount set aside for them. Of those dollars, the government has taken $368 million from the navy to pay for these tanks. Is it the minister's view that the navy is overfunded? Is that why he pulled out $368 million from the navy?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do not know where the member opposite gets those figures. Not a dollar has been taken from the navy. In fact, if he checks, he will see that the navy actually got more money this year than it got last year and it will get more money next year than it got this year. There is no money being taken from the navy at all.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chair, I guess the question is, then, how does the government pay the rent for all these tanks? Where did the money come from?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, the money came from the increased budgets that the Conservative government has given the defence department, from the $5.3 billion extra the defence department was given. Also, we are into accrual accounting. As I said, the costs of capital are spread over 20 years.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chair, from the point of view of the navy it seems more like cruel accounting than accrual accounting.

In fact, we have a situation whereby the government is cutting one destroyer and retiring the navy's two refuelling and resupply ships, which will be gone two years before the three new ones that the Liberal government ordered will arrive. There will be a two year gap and yet he is saying there is no loss to the navy whatsoever, that the navy obviously has enough funding.

How can the navy have enough funding if there is going to be a two year gap before the new resupply vessels arrive?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, again the member opposite has incorrect information. There is not going to be any gap. The current support ships will continue in service until they are replaced.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chair, although the minister says it is important to have the right resources at the right time, the evidence is that the government is not providing the right resources at the right time.

In fact, in the Halifax Chronicle-Herald on Wednesday, we saw a report from a woman who is a mother of someone who works in the forces. Ms. Pauline Clarke of Kentville, Nova Scotia, does not think they are being supplied at the right time. I will quote from the story, which states:

Her son, who works in supplies, told her that soldiers have been waiting months to get their boots replaced....

[ She says,] “They do a lot of walking and those boots just wear out, (but) they have to wear the old boots because they have no other choice”.

I see members across the way smiling and joking about this because it is about boots. They seem to feel that is not important to soldiers. They are making a joke about the fact that soldiers' boots are wearing out.

Is this what the minister means by the right resources at the right time?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, when I was made aware, through a newspaper article, of this mother saying that her son reported there were not enough boots in Afghanistan, I checked it out immediately.

There are enough boots for everybody in Afghanistan. As I said earlier in answer to a question, there is no need for anybody to buy boots. There are sufficient boots for everybody. Also, a new contract has just been let for additional boots, so there is no shortage of boots.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Chair, the minister said in his formal estimates statement tonight that he wants Canadian soldiers to achieve success in operations. May I ask what he is measuring success by in his operations in Afghanistan?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, the success of operations has many aspects to it. One is that when our troops engage the Taliban, they succeed every time. One is that when our PRT does its job, it actually improves the life of the local Afghans with development projects. Another is that when our team called the OMLT trains the Afghan army, over time the Afghan army improves, and its numbers increase. That is the kind of success we are talking about.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am wondering whether the minister approves of the aggressive and high risk combat style that is being used in Afghanistan, a style that has resulted in the highest percentage of troop loss and injury of any NATO nation involved, including those fighting by our side in Kandahar province.