House of Commons Hansard #120 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:35 p.m.

Vaughan Ontario

Conservative

Julian Fantino ConservativeAssociate Minister of National Defence

Madam Chair, I am pleased to be here this evening with my colleagues and the representatives of the Canadian armed forces to discuss a number of important issues and what they mean for the Canadian Forces and Canadians in general.

The opposition would want us to return to the decade of darkness and not provide the essential tools our men and women in uniform need to do their job.

Our Conservative government has been clear. This will not happen. With the support of the Canadian public, we are equipping the military for the challenges of today and for those of the future.

As a government, we have responsibility to keep our country strong and free. This government will continue to ensure our men and women in uniform have the support they need to protect our country and represent our interests abroad.

We have a duty to Canadians to prepare for situations and circumstances in advance so we are ready and able to deal with future challenges.

Through my many years in policing and decades of work with the Canadian Forces Liaison Council, I have a developed a deep appreciation for the professionalism of our Canadian Forces and what proper equipment and preparation means in an emergency situation both at home and abroad.

As the Associate Minister of National Defence, I oversee the procurement of major assets and equipment. Meeting this important responsibility is best done through methods I know work from my previous public service sector.

We need to provide value for the hard-earned dollars of Canadians. As trusted custodians of the public purse, we must continually balance needs against available resources and affordability. Determining this balance requires a hands-on approach. It requires that I go beyond the executive summary and immerse myself in the finer aspects of the file to witness, experience and engage in the issues first hand and up close.

This is my style. I have learned valuable lessons by immersing myself in my portfolio and personally engaging with Canadians who do the heavy lifting on a daily basis, our men and women in uniform.

In my current role, I have travelled to Afghanistan to see first hand the brave work our soldiers are doing to help rebuild the country. Our soldiers told me that the enhanced equipment they received saved lives and even better equipment on the way would save more lives, injury and trauma.

I met with our highly-skilled fighter pilots who returned from a successful mission in Libya. They told me that although their current equipment worked well today, it would not suffice in the battle space of tomorrow, and they are absolutely right.

My trip to Winnipeg to meet with search and rescue teams allowed me to see first hand how Canadians were being well-served by some of our best SAR technicians in the world. Canadians who find themselves in distress depend upon them.That is why it is important to have the right equipment ready for the task, at any time, in any weather.

In Vancouver I was proud to see first hand the hundreds of skilled workers who were in the process of modernizing our Halifax class frigates. These are Canadian workers who take their jobs very seriously. They have every right to be proud of the state-of-the-art equipment and services they provide to strengthen the effectiveness of our Royal Canadian Navy.

While touring Canadian industries that are contributing to the joint strike fighter program, I also saw first hand the benefits to Canadian workers in our economy our industrial benefits policies provide.

These experiences have given me the unique opportunity to witness the pride of Canadians as they help design and build for both our nation and allies, cutting-edge fighters for the next generation. They have told me how participation in this program ensures they have good paying, skilled jobs in Canada well into the future.

I feel privileged to have a front-row seat to witness first hand the leadership that Canadians are taking on multiple fronts around the world.

In Washington we gathered our allies together at our Canadian embassy to demonstrate leadership on the complicated joint strike fighter file.

In Texas I heard how Canadian industry was providing unique solutions to the toughest technological challenges of today and of tomorrow. Our workers are providing aerospace skills and knowledge other nations strive to achieve.

During the Libya campaign, I met with General Bouchard in Italy. I also met other NATO commanders who praised our Canadian military that took a leading role in the international mission.

Our air crews were among the most respected, and we should be proud of their successful efforts.

Our service abroad does come at a cost and it is appropriate to acknowledge the many Canadians who paid the ultimate sacrifice in service to Canada in current and past conflicts.

The repatriation ceremonies I have attended in Trenton attest to the fact that the actions on foreign battlefields have lasting impacts at home. I cannot put into words the emotion one goes through on these sad but proud occasions, which have also enhanced my resolve to provide our military men and women with the best equipment available to achieve mission success and optimum safety. Never do I want to have to explain to a grieving family that we did not do our best to provide the essential tools and support for its loved one to return home safely.

I challenge the opposition this evening to put itself in this head space and think carefully about its questions and what it has really asked this government to do.

We know that military equipment is expensive, but one must understand we cannot be penny-wise and proud foolish when lives are at stake, as is the reputation of Canada among our allies.

Being responsible for military procurement, I must balance a moral obligation with the responsibility to provide value for money. This balance is the responsibility of all members of the House and most assuredly of this government.

As I saw first hand in London, Ontario, Canadians are taking the many lessons learned in Afghanistan and elsewhere to make our light armoured vehicles safer for our soldiers. This upgrade is expensive, but the additional safety and likelihood of mission success is worth every penny.

Those who have studied military procurement understand it is very complex. It is difficult to comment definitively on these matters because often there are challenges in sharing sensitive information and to make accurate assessments. Commentary is often misunderstood, misreported and misinformed. It adds little to explaining for some why we procure such equipment.

Tonight I ask the opposition to focus as much on the why as to the how in these matters. Our government, through the Canada first defence strategy, is committed to providing the equipment our military needs. We are doing this in a fiscally responsible manner, while ensuring we meet the needs of today along with the anticipated challenges of tomorrow.

My pledge to Canadians has always been to spend their money as I would my own. I recognize the trust that has been placed in us and the importance of honouring those expectations.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Madam Chair, after a decade of darkness under the Liberals, which I know very well because I served in the CF in that period, Canada's armed forces were left in a state of disrepair, unable to perform as well as they could have. Our government, since taking office, has made a remarkable effort to correct the misguided polices of the previous Liberal government.

While it has never been with the support of the opposition, we have made substantial investments in our military so we can regain our once proud standing on the world stage and, more important, be ready to defend Canada and protect our interests.

Could the associate minister tell us what the government record is in this regard?

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Conservative

Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON

Madam Chair, I thank the hon. member, not only for his question but also for his years of dedicated service to this country. I applaud his contributions in this regard.

I would suggest that it is no secret that our military was suffering from rust out under the previous government. Early in our mandate, we released the Canada first defence strategy, which has been our guiding policy in revitalizing our military for today and the future. Our actions speak for themselves. We now have four Globemaster cargo planes that have allowed Canada to respond to humanitarian disasters and get critical people and equipment to our operations abroad. They also play an important role in moving equipment throughout Canada.

We have successfully replaced our workhorse aircraft, the Hercules, with a newer model that can carry more, fly faster, fly further and provide the strategic airlift needed. We are replacing our aging fixed wing search and rescue aircraft to ensure we can continue to provide world-leading search and rescue services. New capability in the Arctic offshore patrol ships, which Canada has never had before, will allow us to patrol our Arctic shores and defend our sovereignty.

New joint support ships and fleet of service combatant ships will fully equip members of our Royal Canadian Navy to do the job we ask of them and they will be better able to respond to our current and future needs.

To better protect our troops, we are upgrading our light armoured vehicles with the latest protection and weapons systems. We are also replacing our vehicle fleets to make it safer for those men and women who put their lives on the line on the battlefield. We are taking possession of a new fleet of tanks to ensure we are prepared for theatres like Afghanistan, and, unlike the Liberals, we will not send our troops unprepared into lethal situations. We have successfully procured 37 lightweight towed Howitzers, which allow us to play a key role in protecting our troops in Afghanistan.

By any means, our efforts to revitalize the military and properly equip its members for their job is ambitious, successful and, unfortunately, at this time much needed. Had the previous government done its job properly, our military would have the equipment it needs. I would also like to remind the members opposite that military procurement provides thousands of jobs for Canadians and benefits our national economy. These jobs are often highly skilled, high paying jobs that bring economic benefit to communities across this nation and I invite the hon. members opposite to get on with the program.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

North Vancouver B.C.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board and for Western Economic Diversification

Madam Chair, my question is also for the Associate Minister of National Defence.

Under the previous Liberal government, Canada did not have the ability to move much equipment by air. Our aircraft were not large enough and were already fully tasked to other duties. Any time we wanted to move large equipment or lots of it by air, it was embarrassing, to say the least. As a G7 country, we had to beg a lift from our allies or hitch a ride on a rented cargo plane from another country. When the Conservatives took government, they were criticized by the opposition for moving so quickly with such an expensive procurement.

I would like to ask the minister to tell us, in hindsight, whether it was worth it. Did Canada make the right decision?

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON

Madam Chair, this procurement was completed in 2008, record time for a procurement of this size and complexity. Just weeks after we took delivery of these aircraft, we put them to valuable use, meeting the dire needs of those in Jamaica after hurricane Dean. Since that time, these critical assets have allowed us to properly serve our troops in Afghanistan and around the globe. Their sheer size and flexibility have unquestionably given our military the strategic independence it could have only dreamed of under the Liberal government.

For my colleagues in the NDP, I only need remind them of the many humanitarian missions these very capable aircraft have provided in areas such as Afghanistan, Haiti, in the wake of Katrina and even domestically. This procurement is one of the shining examples of why it is dangerous to let the NDP and the Liberals define our military procurements. If they had their way, we would be calling for help when others need us most.

I am proud of what our government has been able to provide for our military and, just as important, what we have been able to provide to those in need, and I stand by that statement.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Ajax—Pickering Ontario

Conservative

Chris Alexander ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence

Madam Chair, I would ask the Minister of National Defence, given the exchanges we have had tonight, to clarify the mission of Canada's fighter fleet and the question of first strike versus multi-purpose.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Madam Chair, I appreciate the opportunity for clarification. It was a question that came earlier from a Liberal member with respect to the term “first strike capability”. This is a term that is commonly used, as most would know. It is around a doctrine that governs the use of nuclear weapons, and, as Canadians know, we do not possess nuclear weapons and have no intention to obtain nuclear weapons. So this first strike capability question is, in this context, quite irrelevant. There is no doctrine in that regard that would apply to the Canadian Forces and its use.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Madam Chair, with your permission, I would like to share my time with the hon. member for St. John's East.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Denise Savoie

Is there unanimous consent of the House?

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Denise Savoie

There is no unanimous consent.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Madam Chair, why did the Minister of National Defence ask Public Works and Government Services Canada to relinquish its procurement role?

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Madam Chair, it is no secret that, based on the recommendation from the Auditor General, now the Department of Public Works has taken on an expanded role with respect to the acquisition of the next generation fighter. In that role, we are acting on the recommendation of the Auditor General. There is a seven step process that includes greater transparency, reporting to Parliament and the independent verification of numbers. This will enhance the co-operation that is already well known and historically based between—

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Denise Savoie

Order, please. The hon. member for Pontiac.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Madam Chair, the minister should perhaps clean his ears. My question was clear. I did not ask a question about the current situation and the Auditor General's report. I asked him why, originally, he asked Public Works and Government Services Canada to relinquish its procurement responsibilities for the F-35 jets.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Madam Chair, I think the member might want to try to rephrase his question if he is not asking why Public Works has an expanded role. I am responding to the reality that has occurred as a result of the recommendation of the Auditor General. Public Works has taken on an expanded role, continuing to work with the Department of National Defence and industry, to look at the procurement of the next generation fighter aircraft. As part of that process, it will include an injection of a number—

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Denise Savoie

Order, please. The hon. member for Pontiac.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Madam Chair, if he does not wish to answer, perhaps he could tell me why his letter, which was addressed to Public Works and Government Services Canada and which requested that the department relinquish its procurement role, did not contain any more details about the specific requirements for the F-35 jets.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Madam Chair, the hon. member may want to be more specific. I have responded to his question with information that is well-documented and on the public record. I will not tell him how to ask his questions if he does not tell me how to answer them.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Madam Chair, if he would answer my questions, I would not need to tell him how to answer my questions, as is the case at present.

Why did DND wait until August 2010 to complete a statement of operational requirements for Public Works and Government Services Canada?

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Madam Chair, the Department of Public Works and Government Services never abdicated its role in this process. As the hon. member knows, Canada has a Defence Production Act and PWGSC is responsible for it. The department clearly took on that responsibility by carrying out many procurement exercises, including the work that has been done to date to replace the CF-18s.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Madam Chair, I will try again.

You tried to answer the question that I asked earlier, but you did not really succeed. Perhaps you should wait for the translation.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Denise Savoie

Order, please. I once again ask all hon. members to address their questions to the Chair.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Madam Chair, I asked why the department waited until August 2010 to provide a statement of operational requirements to the Department of Public Works and Government Services. That was the question.

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Conservative

Chris Alexander Conservative Ajax—Pickering, ON

Madam Chair, all of the measures taken to date by the Department of National Defence and the Department of Public Works and Government Services were very well analyzed in the Auditor General's report. I would recommend that the hon. member reread the report if he has not yet memorized it.

The important thing right now—