Debates of Feb. 10th, 2022

Opposition Motion—Federal COVID-19 Mandates and Restrictions

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for an excellent speech and the enlightening information. I want to know. What percentage of Canadians needs to be vaccinated before the mandates will be lifted?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is the first time a Conservative ever said I gave an excellent speech, and I thank him for that. I will give him the benefit of the doubt that it may have been a slightly wrong choice of words, in all fairness.

It is a great question, but I am not a medical expert. They are sighing. They are disappointed that I cannot answer that. They are disappointed that as a politician, I am willing to refuse to pretend to be a medical expert. I am not a medical expert. What I do know is that, all along, we have been taking medical expert advice from the experts, not the Conservative Party. As a result, whether you correlate it positively or not, we have the highest vaccination rate among the G7 countries. That is from listening to the experts. They are clapping. Why do we not listen to the experts as it relates to when it will be time to remove such measures?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague’s speech was certainly passionate. He brought up some inconsistencies, but there are inconsistencies on the other side as well, and that is not where I want to go.

Politicians are not the only ones putting together a plan to lift restrictions. This must be done with the public health experts. However, this has never come up in debate, even though I think that, obviously, if there is to be a plan, the experts have to be involved.

Today, we are hearing that there needs to be such a plan, and in my speech this morning I gave some options about what should be included, particularly the experts. On February 28, will the government give us a plan put together with the experts?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate to hear that it appears as though the Bloc Québécois will be voting in favour of this motion, but I will say that we need to let the experts make the plan.

The member's question to me, which I will try to answer as directly as I can, is why we do not involve the experts in making that plan. I can tell her that the experts have been making plans. Look at Ontario. The province has to keep reworking it, because it cannot predict things. There are lots of variables that happen. Why should we be forcing people to give us something when it is not in the best medical practice to do that?

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians deserve honest answers and responsible leadership from their elected officials. I have spoken with constituents in my riding of Nanaimo—Ladysmith who have told me they want clear, consistent and transparent communication from leadership. This is an area that I think we can all agree on. I am hearing from constituents who are exhausted and who want to see the light at the end of the pandemic. Again, I think we can all agree.

How to best keep us safe throughout this pandemic has been ever-evolving, and the way public health responds must be the same. We have learned critical lessons. We know that we need to keep increasing health care transfers to provinces and territories. We know we need to increase access to testing and PPE.

Does the member agree it is time for the government to act on these critical lessons today?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I always think there is an opportunity to learn, in terms of lessons and doing better wherever we can.

To the member's comment about Canadians deserving clear information, I could not agree more. It is unfortunate that my office has to spend a lot of time correcting misinformation that is out there. My office spends a lot of time correcting misinformation that, quite frankly, the Conservative Party is more than happy to promote, providing it attains its political objective.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health and to the Minister of Sport]

Mr. Speaker, like the member for Kingston and the Islands, I have been absolutely mystified. Frankly, I think I am suffering from whiplash with the Conservative Party just not being able to decide what side of the conversation it is on. I do not know if Conservatives are outside handing out coffee to anti-vax protesters, or in the House telling them they need to go home.

By the same token, I have not seen too many of my Conservative colleagues suggesting that their constituents get vaccinated. It has been very seldom that I have seen information about a vaccine clinic or suggestions to get vaccinated. My question to my colleague—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

There is a point of order by the hon. member for Yorkton—Melville.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am confused as to how this conversation has anything to do with asking a question with regard to the motion versus simply challenging the position of the Conservative Party.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

There is debate going on in the House and I am trying to allow things to flow.

I am going to ask the member for Milton to finish his question.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is the time for questions and comments. I thought I was entitled to ask a question or make a comment.

I will ask my colleague for Kingston and the Islands if he thinks there is anything we can do, as Liberal, science-believing MPs, to encourage members in ridings presided over by Conservatives who have not been sharing vaccine and clinic information to ensure that more Canadians get vaccinated so that we can get ourselves out of this pandemic.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is always more we can do. We should be encouraging people whenever we have the opportunity. In fairness, I will say that I have heard some Conservatives say that, although not as loudly those in other parties, but some of them have been saying that.

I will say one other thing. A lot of people in here might think that restrictions are being forced on people and that the mandates are forcing people to get vaccinated, but that is a misconception between what is being forced on people and them just going out to get it done.

I have an extended family member who had not yet been vaccinated. When the restrictions came in, and the mandate was that people had to be vaccinated to go into a restaurant, he said he would go and get vaccinated because he had not done it yet. We have this misconception that the mandates are forcing people when, as we have seen in Quebec, they are encouraging more people to get vaccinated. We know that vaccine appointments increased by something like 90,000, and do not quote me on that number, overnight when Quebec brought in its mandates. The mandates are another tool to encourage more people to get vaccinated, as we have seen.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I want to draw attention to the fact that the major focus of the member's speech was that they listen to the experts, and they do not make decisions as politicians or parliamentarians. I have some confusion about this because, when I spoke to the Speaker of the House when this first began, he made it clear that, when it came to sitting in the House of Commons, only the medical professional, the House of Commons nurse, would be making those decisions, and those decisions would be made privately.

However, when she made her decision, this leader did not like what he heard, and they changed those expert recommendations. How is it that the member thinks there is one set of rules for over here, but they are breaking their very own statements?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will bite my tongue as to where I really want to go with that one. I look forward to the opportunity to see the member in person again.

The reality is that we listen to the experts. The experts advise us, and then we make decisions based on that expert advice. This member seems to have an axe to grind with one particular issue with somebody in the House of Commons. I am sure she can go through the proper channels for that.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am a constructive person and always ready to help.

Politics, partisanship and political games are not my strong suit. I will reiterate what I proposed this morning, noting that there is no timeline in what I am suggesting for preparing a plan of action. The approach I am proposing is very flexible.

There will need to be a clearly defined status update, qualifiable and quantifiable objectives and questions to be asked now, during and after. There will also need to be an outline of the steps and tangible actions to take, as well as the conditions to meet to go from one step to the next. It will have to be clear who is responsible for achieving and validating these actions, including the experts and people who are accountable. The communications, evaluation and validation tools will need to be specified, and an overview of potential obstacles and solutions for overcoming them will need to be provided. None of these suggestions has a deadline.

Is it possible to implement such a plan?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, the member lost me at not wanting to play partisan games and having a partisan approach when she is choosing to side with the Leader of the Opposition, who was, literally a week ago, calling for the protestors to keep up the fight out there. Now she is suddenly coming in here to be the saviour of this place—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member for Beauport—Limoilou is rising on a point of order.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I never, and I mean never, said that I agree with what is happening outside.

Protesting, yes; blockading, no; putting people's lives at risk, never. Let the member withdraw his comments.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on the same point of order.

I did not say that the member was engaging in a partisan approach. I said she is willing to go along with the Leader of the Opposition, who is engaging in an overly hyperpartisan approach.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Members are descending into further debate, so we will cut it off here.

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay, Disaster Assistance; the hon. member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith, Indigenous Affairs; the hon. member for Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, Small Business.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Lethbridge.

Once again, Canada's Conservatives are called out to speak on behalf of all Canadians. A continued and profound lack of leadership has allowed us to get and remain in this quagmire pitting east versus west, rural versus urban, vaccinated versus unvaccinated and Canadian versus Canadian.

As many of us in the House have attempted previously, I will once again attempt to turn down the temperature using measured arguments and examples to help the Liberal government make informed decisions. It is unbelievable that just yesterday members of the House from across the aisle chose to mislead Canadians. I cannot count the number of times that the leadership of the Conservative Party has reiterated the fact that Conservatives support vaccination.

Often, when we move toward a more perfect union, there are those with differing opinions. To me, this is indicative of what we all see as Canadians. We can have different opinions, yet somehow those things which unite us in the greatness of Canada are much stronger bonds than those forces which strive, perhaps, to tear us apart.

While l was a practising physician, if a patient came into my office and they had significant issues or hesitancy around perhaps vaccines or treatments, my job was to build trust and a relationship, and then encourage those people to develop a behaviour that would be different and that, perhaps most importantly, benefited them. When we do that in a very kind, caring, compassionate and hand-holding manner, in a way that shows those folks that we respect them and that we are content experts, we know that the likelihood of change goes up significantly.

Does this mean that those people should be stigmatized, vilified, marginalized, mocked, called names, excluded from society and have their ability to support their families removed? I really think not. As a friend of mine once said, this is akin to a schoolyard bully not only winning the fight, but also taking our lunch money and our lunch box. It is shameful. Is this really the type of Canada that we want to be?

This week, I had the opportunity to speak to Trevor. He is a middle-aged man. He went away from his hometown to university. He filled his dream of becoming a math teacher. He then had the opportunity to move back to his hometown. He worked hard, and indeed he became a very well-respected math teacher and coach of the varsity soccer team.

Unfortunately for Trevor in our society, he has decided not to be immunized. Why is this unfortunate? We all know exactly what happened. Trevor lost his job. He can no longer coach the soccer team. He can no longer take either of his children to their leisure activities such as the 4-H club or to their soccer games.

This is the important part that Canadians need to remember. Trevor is not a villain. Trevor is not uncaring. He is not disrespectful, and he is not against those who have been immunized. Who is Trevor? Trevor is our next door neighbour. Trevor is our cousin. Trevor is our brother. He is the guy who shovelled our driveway. He has coached our kids in soccer. He used to teach our children math. Now because of mandates supported by the federal government, he is unemployed. He is no longer a productive member of society, and his physical health, mental health and relationships have suffered beyond anyone's imagination.

I want to also tell the story of Douglas. Admittedly his story is similar to Trevor's, but perhaps slightly different. Douglas has had COVID twice. Thankfully, he has recovered, and because of somewhat unusual circumstances, he agreed to be part of an antibodies study for those who have been infected with COVID.

Therefore, Douglas knows he has antibodies against COVID-19. Perhaps many out there will be quick to remark that antibodies do not tell the whole story with respect to our immunity against COVID. We can talk about that all day if we choose to.

However, this gentleman has agreed to become part of our greater scientific understanding of the most damaging worldwide pandemic in over 100 years. Now why would Douglas agree to do such a thing?

Oddly enough, Douglas is a Ph.D. level scientist in organic chemistry. He knows science. He believes in science. He studied science. Members can guess what happened. I know this may come as a terrible shock, but once again, we have another Canadian who was a productive member of society, but who is now not, because he too has lost his job. He worked from home by himself. This is the unfair and divisive mandates we see here today.

It would be very easy at this time to launch into a tirade about the Prime Minister's lack of leadership, his inability to deviate from an ill-advised course, or to talk about his continued inability to show any compassion for someone who might disagree with his overly embellished view of the world. However, I took enough of the House's time during the emergency debate on Tuesday evening to lecture more on the topic of leadership, such as what we have already heard about a great leader like, perhaps, Colin Powell.

During a time of crisis, nations need leadership, and the Liberal government has not stepped up. It has failed Canadians. Indeed, from the most recent misery index, Canadians have become even more miserable, year upon year, under the failed leadership of the Prime Minister. I think that is enough said.

It is important, also, that Canadians reflect upon the negative impact mandates are likely to have upon children and adolescents. I have had the opportunity to speak to representatives from the Canadian pediatric society, who are arguably experts. The deep concern they have for the ongoing emotional trauma placed upon Canada's children and adolescents is beyond belief.

As the world has never seen this type of mandate and loss of hope, the effects on multiple generations could be catastrophic. Most distressing is that we do not know what the future holds for these traumatized young people. What happens to a developing brain when it is continually presented with mixed messaging, an uncertain future, despair, isolation from their friends, lack of physical activity, inability to see facial expressions, a lack of physical touch and a population-wide division based on a failure of leadership?

How do these young people get help, and what do they need? How can a health system or a mental health system, which is already improperly funded and staffed with professionals who are tired and burned out, come to the aid of these children and adolescents? What are we to do for them in the future? As a physician, father, grandfather, politician and concerned Canadian, this question keeps me up at night.

There are those out there who wish to continue to dodge the blame and muddy the waters of federal versus provincial mandates. Certainly, the Prime Minister would rather have Canadians put the blame on their premiers. This is not leadership. I think many Canadians in this time of crisis would echo those words used by former president Truman: “The buck stops here.”

As I begin to close my remarks, I think it is important for all Canadians to reflect upon this pandemic as an unprecedented crisis affecting the entire world. It has been a situation that has led scientists and physicians and, indeed, everyday Canadians, to look at scientific studies and statistics. This pandemic and the accompanying data and statistics have changed, and it is important that good public policy changes with the science. I implore the Liberal government to revisit their policy and understand the plight of everyday Canadians.

Finally, Canadians need to have a plan to end the COVID-19 federal mandates. Once again I will be clear, we need to talk about science, not political science, and we need to hear from medical doctors, not the spin doctors.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health and to the Minister of Sport]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to ask my colleague from the health committee a question.

My heart goes out to people like Trevor and the other gentleman he mentioned. They have had such a difficult time. I certainly have had my fair share of hard conversations with constituents here in Milton as well.

However, I am still a bit confused. What could the federal government have done differently to ensure that people like Trevor could have kept teaching? My colleague mentioned that we are treading on two jurisdictions here, but what aspect of the federal mandate that he is referencing had an impact on Trevor's ability to teach?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. parliamentary secretary has missed part of the point. The biggest point here is that Canadians expect leadership. Canadians, during a time of crisis, need to be given hope, to be given some certainty for their future, to be given some direction.

Let us think back about the other times of crisis that we have had in this great nation. We have been led by leaders. What do we have now? We have a Prime Minister who continues to use disparaging language, who wants to divide Canadians. He wants to call them names. He likes to mock them. He likes to point a finger at them. I do not know what other mean things he would like to do to them, but he continues to do them. He has dug his heels in all the way up to his neck and he refuses to change course, despite the negative consequences for all Canadians,

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Cumberland—Colchester for his thoughtful speech, which gave examples of what people are going through.

I would like him to elaborate on that. We agree that there are people who are going through difficult times and are afraid of this pandemic. There are people who are more vulnerable, including children, parents, the immunocompromised and seniors. In the current context, these people are not reassured by these protests and by the fact that health measures may be relaxed.

What message are we sending them now? Ultimately, do we want to have a clear plan from the federal government for them as well?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the important thing that we are asking of the government is to have a plan. It continues to refuse. All it wants to do is to continue this idea that this pandemic is going to continue incessantly. That is what leads Canadians to have no hope going forward.

Regardless of whether people are vaccinated or unvaccinated, old or young, everybody wants to hear what the government has for a plan. Whether Conservative, Liberal or NDP, they still want to hear from Canada's Prime Minister. They do not want to hear from the Prime Minister for just the Liberal people or just the people who are vaccinated or who believe what he has to say; they want to hear from Canada's Prime Minister.