Debates of Oct. 17th, 2023

Alleged Misleading Response to Order Paper Question

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I thank the hon. member for the additional information.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion—Fiscal Plan

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are facing an affordability crisis. Everything costs more, from the grocery store to the gas pumps. Mortgages have doubled, rents have doubled and down payments have doubled. The dream of home ownership is dead for nine out of 10 Canadians. Liberal inflationary spending has caused food prices to skyrocket, and one in five Canadians is skipping meals because they cannot afford to eat.

Families are struggling to make ends meet. Food banks are overwhelmed. In my community, food banks are at risk of bankruptcy because of a surge in demand, and 33%, or one-third, of food bank users are children. Overdose deaths have increased 300% in B.C. The leading cause of death among 10- to 18-year-olds is drug overdose.

This is heartbreaking, and the people in my province need some good news. Unfortunately, StatsCan reported today that inflation remains high. After eight years of reckless spending, Canada's national debt sits at $1.2 trillion. Think about that for a second. That means debt servicing costs will be almost $44 billion this year alone. These are tax dollars that could have been used to invest in addiction recovery services or to help address the housing crisis. Instead, those tax dollars will go to rich bondholders.

At a time when everything feels broken, the Prime Minister has spent the cupboards bare and has no plan to bring the nation's finances into a better position to respond to the real needs of Canadians. This is because of years of blatant disregard for fiscal prudence and monetary policy. We now have a tired, desperate NDP-Liberal government that is out of ideas. It has resorted to recycling broken campaign promises and adopting Conservative policy, albeit watered down.

Its housing accelerator fund has not built a single home. It is nothing more than a housing hoax. The Prime Minister has added more debt than all other prime ministers combined. There is no plan to balance the budget and no plan to get his inflationary deficits under control.

This is the Prime Minister who thinks budgets balance themselves and asks Canadians to forgive him for not thinking about monetary policy. His laissez-faire attitude toward public finance has put the well-being of far too many Canadians in crisis. Government spending has driven up inflation rates, and those rates have put Canada at the brink of a mortgage default crisis.

That is why the leader of the Conservative opposition brought a common-sense motion to the House today. Our motion calls on the Prime Minister to table a fiscal plan that includes a pathway back to a balanced budget. He must do so before the Bank of Canada announces its next rate decision later this month. This motion is urgent and necessary. The government must start spending within its means, something that Canadian families do every day to balance their own household budgets.

In June, the Minister of Finance took to social media to declare victory over inflation. She told Canadians the Liberal plan to tackle inflation is “working” and that the Liberals were making “real progress”. Since then, inflation has gone up 43%. She fails to learn the lesson that excessive government spending and cruel tax hikes are the reason she is losing the war against inflation. After eight years, it is clear that the Liberal fiscal plan is not working and that the Prime Minister is not worth the cost.

Common-sense Conservatives have a plan to reverse these deficits so we can bring down inflation, bring home lower prices and bring homes that people can afford. We will cap government spending, cut waste and bring in a dollar-for-dollar law that requires the government to find a dollar of savings for any new dollar of spending. That is common sense.

We will also axe the punitive carbon tax. When we tax the farmer who grows the food, the trucker who ships the food and the store that sells the food, we are taxing the hard-working Canadian family struggling to pay for that food. The Liberal government has failed to reach any of its emission reduction targets, so all of this financial pain is for no environmental gain.

Liberals and their enablers in the NDP justify their position by suggesting that the carbon tax is not high enough. Speaking about the carbon tax, the Liberal member for Halifax said, “Ultimately they don't want to pay for it, but that's what changes behaviour, so if we rebate them everything they've paid for the pollution price, it defeats the whole purpose. There needs to be a bit of pain there. That's the point of it.”

How out of touch can they be? Other Liberals, such as the member for Avalon, finally admitted that the carbon tax is causing harm to Canadians. When asked about the political consequences the Liberals will face because of the carbon tax, the member for Avalon said:

I think it's hurting them a fair bit. Everywhere I go, people come up to me and say, “We're losing faith in the Liberal Party”.

I've had people tell me they can't afford to buy groceries. They can't afford to heat their homes....

It is too little too late. That member voted to implement the carbon tax, and his party continues to punish Canadians with it.

On housing, the Prime Minister does not think it is his responsibility, but the buck stops with him. It used to take 25 years to pay off a mortgage. Now it takes 25 years to save for a down payment.

Vancouver is the third most unaffordable housing market on the planet. In my community, mortgages now cost thousands of dollars more per month, forcing people out of home ownership. We are not building homes quick enough to keep up with demand because big city gatekeepers impose unnecessary delays and red tape.

A C.D. Howe study determined that gatekeepers and regulations add nearly $1.3 million to the cost of an average home in Vancouver. Meanwhile, CMHC bureaucrats in Ottawa are rewarded with millions of dollars in bonuses for a lackluster performance.

Conservatives know we need to build homes, not bureaucracy. We will reward cities that are getting homes built with additional infrastructure dollars and a building bonus, and we will withhold transit and infrastructure funding from cities until sufficient high density housing around transit stations is built and occupied. We will cut the bonuses and salaries for ineffective bureaucrats, and if needed, we will fire the gatekeepers at CMHC if they are unable to speed up approvals for housing programs to an average of 60 days. We will list 15% of the federal government's 37,000 buildings and all appropriate federal land to be turned into homes people can afford.

Conservatives will turn the hurt the government has inflicted into the hope Canadians deserve. Canada should be a place where our citizens can afford to buy a home, put food on the table and save for the future. This is common sense. Only Conservatives will bring it home.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives, at times, just want to put their heads in the sand and stick with their slogans and bumper stickers, quite frankly. The member talks about inflation. Back in June of 2022, inflation in Canada was at around 8%. In the United States, it was at 9%. Today it is 4% and 3%, or just under 4%. Let us put it that way.

The Conservatives will go around Canada and say that Canada is broken. Does that mean the whole world is broken? The Conservatives are so extreme. They like to get those slogans on the bumper stickers.

Does the member not believe she is misleading Canadians when she tries to give this false impression? Yes, inflation is hurting. That is the reason we bring forward good legislation, such as Bill C-56, which is legislation the Conservatives is filibustering. Why?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my Conservative colleagues, this caucus and our leader are out there talking to Canadians every day. They tell us a very different story than the story this member wants to portray. When they tell us they cannot pay their rent and they tell us they cannot pay their mortgages to hold on to the home they bought some homes ago, they have tears in their eyes. This is real. The food banks facing bankruptcy in my community are real. The demand is so high they cannot keep up.

Liberals are the ones with their heads in the sand. They are the ones who do not know the reality on the ground. They better wake up.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am going to repeat a question I asked my Conservative colleague earlier, because I may not have worded my question correctly. The fact is, we are not at all opposed to the idea put forward today by the Conservatives, which is to ask the government to offer some predictability, act responsibly and introduce a plan for returning to a balanced budget.

However, the Conservatives want to give the government about eight days to do this. They are demanding that it be done by October 25, when we know that this government is not necessarily the quickest at getting things done.

Does my colleague think that we could perhaps give it a little more time, for example, until the next fall budget update? Are the Conservatives really insisting on this October 25 deadline as a way to once again play political games and blame the government for what it has not yet done?

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am always happy to see when members of the House from other parties are able to come together with the Conservatives and agree on something. That is always a pleasure.

With respect to timelines, the government has had eight years to get this right. It certainly has been many years that we have been telling the government that the way it is going about things, with its unnecessary flagrant spending, is going to result in inflation, and what we have now is rampant inflation. The PBO agreed with us that 40% of its spending during COVID was not COVID related. The government also drove up debt before COVID even happened. It cannot run with that cover anymore.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague talked about the carbon tax, as Conservatives are wont to do. Of course, in British Columbia, the federal carbon tax does not apply at all. We have had a provincial carbon tax there since 2008, brought in by a small c conservative government.

Over the past three years, in her riding and my riding, the gas prices that people complain all the time have gone up about a dollar. The carbon tax has gone up five cents, so 95¢ of that increase is something else. What is it? It is corporate greed.

The price of oil has gone up and the oil companies that are producing that gas have had a windfall profit of billions and billions of dollars. The CEO of Shell Canada said that, if they were taxed more, they would be turning money back into the Canadian economy to help people who are suffering. The government is afraid to do that, and the Conservatives do not want to talk about it. The Conservatives in the U.K. have done just that.

I am just wondering if my colleague could comment on the fact that Conservatives and Liberals do not like to talk about the revenue side of the fiscal situation. We should have a windfall tax to bring money to Canadians, to help all Canadians in this time when people are suffering. A windfall fax on groceries and on gasoline would do just that.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I just love the way socialists talk about taxes. They always find a way to somehow reach into someone else's pocket to find money to spend.

We believe in free people who live with free markets and free choice. We are the party of freedom. We will give freedom back to Canadians, and we will do it in a more prosperous economy where a rising tide floats all boats. We will see people with powerful paycheques and homes they can afford. Yes, we will use the God-given resources that Canada has and create prosperity with it.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Rural Economic Development and Minister responsible for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise in the House on behalf of the people of Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook to speak to the opposition motion. I would like to point out that my voice is not very strong today, so it is going to be much quieter.

The Conservatives, in their motion, are making reference to the fall economic statement. Of course, they know that every November the fall economic statement comes forward. Our government will move forward with much of the legislation, but I am very happy that, as a result of the opposition motion, we will hear all of the good things they have to suggest. We will see if any of them work, and then we can fine-tune them if there is something valuable for us to use to support Canadians.

However, let us talk about the framework of our Canadian economy today. Members must keep in mind that the economy just a year ago was at 8.1% inflation. Today, as we speak, it is down to 3.8%. Already we have seen a quick drop in inflation. Now it is about keeping it going downward.

Canada's economy is strong. We have the lowest deficit in the G7 and the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7 as well. Last week, it was once again confirmed that we have maintained a AAA rating, which is extremely important. That shows our strength to the world as well. Both the OECD and the International Monetary Fund have clearly indicated that Canada will have the strongest economy in the G7 in 2024.

As we are trying to cool the economy, it is obvious that the economy is extremely strong. Over the month of September, over 64,000 jobs were created. The unemployment rate is down to 5.5%, which is exceptional for our country. The lowest was 5.2% a couple of years ago, before the pandemic. We have not only recaptured the million jobs Canadians created prior to the pandemic, but also created another million since the pandemic. Those are impressive numbers.

That is why we are able to support the most vulnerable Canadians. That is why we are able to support and invest even more in the public health care system. We know the Conservatives believe in the private sector in that section. As well, we have invested in the future prosperity of the country. It is a two-way street. It is a balance between supporting and investing in Canadians long term and investing in capturing more revenue.

Affordability is an issue. There is no question about that. There is no denying that. My kids, going to the grocery store, send me a text or a picture, saying, “Look at the price of this.” We could use the example, as has been used in the House, of the price of lettuce. We understand that.

That is why our government has come forward with many initiatives, and more initiatives are being spoken about and brought in through bills as we speak. The child care benefit brings $5 million a month to families in Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, which is $60 million a year. The same thing is happening in the riding of my colleague who is speaking across the floor. In his riding, young families are benefiting from the $60 million in support from the child care benefit.

The early learning initiative, which we brought in last year, was a big investment. Early learning is in 50% of the provinces, bringing the cost down to $10 a day. The rest will follow in the next two years. That is not only a very important investment for young families, but it also allows for more women in the workforce, as well as more flexibility for families.

We have doubled the GST payment for two quarterly payments, helping 11 million Canadians. There was a one-time grocery payment that helped 11 million Canadians. We brought forward the dental plan, and so far we have seen 350,000 children benefit from it. By 2025, we will have more.

Mr. Speaker, I thought I had already mentioned this, but I will be sharing my time with the member for Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill.

I want to finish with another big, important framework bill that we brought forward for people with disabilities—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Let us take a moment to allow the hon. member to take a drink of water to get his voice back. I would just remind folks that the member is having a hard time talking, so I will ask members to try to not hold him back too much. We are so used to vibrancy and energy from the hon. member.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Speaker, another initiative that we are bringing forward, as we speak, is the investment in housing and removing the GST on new rental construction. That is essential. We already have five provinces, including Nova Scotia, that have joined this initiative.

It will drop the cost of a building for affordable housing, for example, from $10 million down to $8.5 million. That is $1.5 million in savings. That is why these contractors and developers are jumping to get these projects going so they can benefit from those investments. I want to share some quotes.

Tim Richter, CEO of the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness, said that the federal government is being very serious about taking measures to ensure it is answering the housing crisis.

Carole Saab from the Federation of Canadian Municipalities said, “This is an important and very welcome decision that will have an immediate impact.”

The executive director of The Federation of Community Social Services of BC said, “Big kudos to the federal government. Removing the GST on new rental construction is probably the biggest thing it could do to stimulate construction.”

As I indicated, those are very important for developers and for Canadians. It is also very important to talk about how we can help Canadians. We brought forward the new tax-free first home savings account to save up to $40,000. People saving for their first home can put away $8,000 a year for five years for a total of $40,000, or over 15 years.

This is like an RRSP. People do not pay taxes going in or on the way out. This is a win-win-win for Canadians. We already have 150,000 young people who have taken advantage of this program within the first six months. I say félicitations. It is excellent.

Since 2015, we have found housing for nearly two million people. We have invested $4 billion in the housing accelerator fund. We have already seen houses being built, and up to 100,000 more units will be built soon.

We just signed an agreement with the City of London, Ontario, where 2,000 housing units will be built in the next three years. There will also be 1,700 units built in Vaughan, Ontario, and 2,600 units built in Halifax in the next three years.

Those are big, successful numbers for the quick construction of housing.

I want to finish with something very important. Today, I witnessed, sadly, the Conservative Party members voting against tweaking the Atlantic accord that would allow Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland and Labrador, with the fastest winds in the world, to invest not only on land wind farms, but in offshore wind farms. We have none in Canada right now.

The sad thing about it is I saw a tweet from my colleague, the Premier of Nova Scotia, this afternoon and he is a Conservative. Let me read what he said. He said, “Bill C-49 is a necessary first step in unlocking our energy potential. There will be many steps along the road but we are hopeful that Bill C-49 passes so we can get started.” It did pass, but without the support of the Conservatives, which is sad.

A quick example of offshore wind is next to Sable Island. We can construct, based on the information, 1,000 turbines that would supply 6.5 million Canadians with energy. That is almost twice as much as what all of Atlantic Canada is using today. This is potential. This is growth. This is revenue.

The Conservatives often ask how we are going to pay for it. We are going to bring in more revenue so we can continue to support Canadians. We will not be making the cuts to our veterans, by closing nine offices and firing 1,000 employees.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite a spectacle to watch my friend from across the floor speaking. His blood pressure must be right through the roof.

He is talking about all the wind farms to go around Sable Island.

How many non-indigenous fishermen's organizations were consulted in the forming of the bill? I have spoken with many of them, and they are very discouraged with their involvement in the forming of the bill. They are going to want to get into committee.

How does the member feel about the point of view of all those fishermen in his province?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Speaker, what gets my blood pressure going up is when you people vote for something that is really important to Atlantic Canadians. That is what is bringing the pressure up. I just do not understand how, when we have an opportunity—

[An hon. member]

Answer it.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I will answer it. If you had voted for it, it would have gotten into committee—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Order.

It is through the Chair. The hon. member knows very well whom he is supposed to be talking to.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will have to sing a song to calm things down in the House. I really appreciate all of the passion and conviction of my colleague opposite.

I would like to come back to something essential. The Canada emergency business account, or CEBA, has repayment terms that force businesses to pay back the subsidies they got during the pandemic. The deadline is coming up. In my riding, there are a lot of SMEs that are on the verge of bankruptcy and shutdown because they are required to repay this amount when they are not ready or able to do so in the current economic context.

Does my colleague not agree that the deadline to pay back the CEBA should be extended or that, given the circumstances, every business should have the opportunity to come up with a plan with the government to pay back the money when they can without losing the subsidy?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very important question, because we are talking about small businesses all across Canada. It was tough, but the government was able to give them up to $60,000. They could keep $10,000 of the first $40,000. Of the remaining $20,000, they could keep another $10,000, so that means $20,000 was available.

We also made changes that allow small businesses to defer their loan repayments for a year, so plenty of tools have been offered. I do not know whether this meets the needs of all businesses, but it does meet the needs of some of them. I am sure of that, based on the discussions I have had.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the problem I have with the motion that is being brought forward by the Conservatives today is that it ignores the real cause of inflation in Canada. We only need to look at publicly available figures to see that in the last three years, in whatever corporate sector we want to name, their profits have skyrocketed over the last three years. With the Bank of Canada, the old saying is that when the only tool one has is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. In response to that corporate greed-driven inflation, the Bank of Canada raises interest rates, and that is why we are seeing the pain and suffering.

The Conservatives want to completely ignore corporate greed. That is okay. If they want to defend corporate Canada against the interests of their own constituents, I am fine with that, but the Liberals cannot be let off the hook here. There is an incredible amount of wealth being generated in Canada, but it is going to fewer and fewer people. I want to know why the Liberals are not doing more to tackle corporate greed, which is hurting too many Canadian families.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very important question. We have already started moving toward that, and I appreciate the support we are receiving from my colleague in the NDP. We brought in the top five grocery CEOs. We had some very productive conversations. We are starting to see prices drop, but they are not stabilized as much as they need to be, and we need to bring others in. We need to bring the manufacturers in; we need to bring the banks in; we need to bring the gas companies in. There are a lot of strategies to be had, and I am definitely going to continue to push for those types of approaches and strategies as we move forward.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, Democratic Institutions; and the hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni, Health.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise to represent my constituents, because cost of living, affordability, is a major issue for many of them.

I hesitate to say that it is an honour to rise to speak to this motion. I want to start by saying that I find the opposition day motions put forward by the official opposition are, for the most part, very repetitive. They do not add to the debate. They do not add to trying to solve these problems for Canadians. Rather they seem to be yet another platform for Conservatives to repeat the gimmicky phrases they have come up with, the cute little phrases.

They really do not seem to be addressing the issues. In fact, when I look at this opposition day motion that addresses the affordability crisis, what the Conservatives put forward as a solution is really not a solution at all. What they say to all those listening, those people who are struggling with the cost of living right now, is to ask for a pathway back to balanced budgets. If anybody thinks that is going to help Canadians who are struggling today, then they are sorely mistaken. People are struggling today in my riding.

On this side of the House, we are working to put forward real programs, many of which my colleague before me has discussed. These motions simply serve to put Canadians down, to insult their intelligence, by putting forward half-truths and hoping that by repeating the same phrases over and over again, as is often done in question period, somehow this misinformation will convince Canadians that these are facts and not simply half-baked truths and beliefs, and political speech that is meant to hurt our country by making people feel badly about Canada itself.

I find the negativity and the lack of true concern about coming up with real solutions for Canadians to be disheartening. I find it a waste of time. For a party that presumably puts a lot of emphasis on using scarce resources wisely, I find the time in question period and in opposition day motions is really an insult to this place and to Canadians. That is why I did not say it was an honour to rise to speak to this motion.

Since I have risen to speak to this motion, I would like to address a few things. We all agree that there are major challenges facing Canadians. Most of the motion put forward referred to these challenges. Where we really differ is when it comes to what the cause of that is and what should be done about it.

The Conservatives like to say, constantly, that the reason we have inflation in Canada is because of our deficits and because we are tackling climate change. However, common-sense Canadians can look around the world and see that inflation is not just a problem in Canada, it is a worldwide problem. In fact, there are many countries that do not have a price on pollution but have been suffering from inflation.

We can also look at the fact that inflation was 8.1% a year ago, and it is now 4%. It has come down drastically. Yet, in that same time period, the price on pollution did not change. If their explanation for why inflation is happening is due to the price on pollution or the carbon tax, they need to look at the numbers. I have mentioned it before, but there seems to be a mistaken belief on that side of the House that, because something happens during the same period of time as something else, it is somehow attributable to that. Anyone who took introductory statistics understands the difference between correlation and causality, and because something occurs over a period of time, it does not mean it is caused by that.

I wish the messaging would stop being so simplistic and based on polling of what slogan resonates with Canadians or gets them angry, and rather would try to address the real facts here. Inflation across Canada and the world has been caused by many things, and we all know that.

It has been caused by the climate crisis, it has been caused by the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia and it has been caused by the post-COVID economy. In fact, many economists say that this is a different kind of inflation because a lot of it is from the supply side as opposed to the demand side. Of course, as I am sure everyone knows, the inflationary government spending, if we want to call it that, contributes to the demand side, not the supply side. Therefore, much of this inflation has been caused by the contraction of supply as opposed to an increase in demand.

Having hopefully corrected some of that, I also want to talk about the price on pollution. We know on this side of the House that we must battle climate change and that many of the inflationary pressures, the cost increases we are seeing today, have been driven by the climate crisis. I think it was only two weeks ago that many opposition members were quoting the price of lettuce, carrots and onions. The increase in those prices has been mainly driven by droughts in California. Romaine lettuce is mostly grown there. We can look at what experts are saying and they will tell us that this is why prices have gone up as much as they have.

Tiff Macklem, whom the opposition likes to quote when blaming inflation on government spending, has said that the price on pollution is responsible for about a 0.15% increase in inflation. We are talking about inflation that has gone up by 6% or 7% and has come back down to 4%, but experts and economists would tell us that very little of that has been caused by the price on pollution. These same experts and many others would say that our price on pollution is one of the most effective and efficient ways to battle greenhouse gas emissions. Given that we have a climate action incentive rebate, most Canadians get back more than they pay, so when we talk about affordability, households are better off with this program.

If an opposition day motion were to put forward some realistic programs, some plans that could contribute to tackling these problems and helping us improve the programs we have in place, it would be welcome. However, to hear the same rhetoric over and over again is tiresome, insulting and, quite frankly, a waste of time. The Conservatives should contribute to the programs we have in place or give us some ideas. We have, in fact, already incorporated a few ideas that have been put forward. We welcomed them. We want to better things for Canadians. We are fighting for Canadians every day, and we encourage the Conservatives to join us in doing the same.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this question would apply to any member of the House.

After eight years, we have seen that the Prime Minister has added more to the national debt than all prime ministers in the past. However, I would like to take us back to just over 40 years ago, when the Prime Minister's father was prime minister and was running out-of-control deficits and inflation was out of control. When he rolled through my town in North Okanagan—Shuswap, he gave the one-finger salute to a few previous Liberal supporters who were standing on the railway platform protesting his car when it stopped.

I would ask the member if she believes there is any difference between that prime minister, who rang up deficits and inflation so incredibly, and the current Prime Minister, or if this one really does not care and is simply not worth the cost.