Debates of Oct. 6th, 2023

The House resumed from September 19 consideration of the motion that Bill C-49, An Act to amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Minister of Housing]

Mr. Speaker, before I begin, I would like to inform the House that I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Sydney—Victoria.

It is a pleasure to rise to speak in the debate on Bill C-49. This is an important issue for my region. It is an important issue for me. Two of the main reasons that I decided to seek public office in the first instance was that I care deeply about creating jobs in Atlantic Canada and want to do more to protect our environment as we build a clean economy. These elements are key to the purpose of Bill C-49 and form a major part of the reason I am so strongly in support of this important piece of legislation.

Let me begin by stating what I hope will be taken as obvious: Climate change is real and its impacts are serious. We need to do more to combat climate change and make sure that our communities adapt to mitigate the consequences of severe weather events, which are arriving with a greater sense of frequency.

In Nova Scotia, our shared home province, we know the importance of doing more to combat climate change. In particular, over the past 12 months or so, we have seen severe weather events that I could not possibly have imagined just a few years ago. The devastating impacts of hurricane Fiona are now well understood by members of this House. We have seen forest fires spread through our province like we have never experienced before. We have seen dangerous floods claim the lives of family members of the province we both call home.

Though we may face hurricanes, storm surges and other severe events, Atlantic Canada is not the only region of the country that has been impacted by the changing climate impacting our communities. We see heat waves in Quebec and Ontario. We see atmospheric rivers in British Colombia. We see wildfires that have displaced families and endangered critical infrastructure in nearly every region of this country.

It is important that I make these points and put them on the record to ensure that the perspective of government is well understood. Climate change is real, the impacts are serious and we need to do more to combat it.

In addition to making sure we address climate change fully with the different ideas we can come up with, we need to understand that not only is it the right thing to do from an environmental perspective, but it is in our self-interest because the cost of inaction is simply too great to ignore.

Members will have seen, as I have, the physical damage that can result from severe weather events. Over the course of the first 20 years or so of my life, it was typical to see insured losses in the range of $250 million to $450 million a year across this country. Within a few short years, that number could potentially reach $5 billion. The reality is that it is expensive not to take action on climate change, and we all pay the consequences.

It is not merely an issue of insured losses. Look at the contributions that governments need to make to deal with the fallout of severe weather events. Look at the hundreds of millions of dollars, perhaps in excess of $1 billion, just in Nova Scotia as a result of the fallout of hurricane Fiona last year. Look at the consequences to the health and well-being of families of letting climate change run its course without intervention. Look at the impact we see when businesses are forced to shut down, as we sometimes lose power for weeks. Crops have been lost in this country that have cost local farmers hundreds of thousands of dollars as a result of these severe weather events. As I mentioned, they can endanger our critical infrastructure, upon which our communities rely for their well-being.

The good news, despite the very serious impacts of climate events, is that we can do something about them. Bill C-49 presents an opportunity. In fact, in my opinion, Nova Scotia has the opportunity to be a leader when it comes to creating job opportunities for people in the green economy. Members will have seen increasing global demand for clean energy products when it comes to powering our economies, when it comes to transportation globally and when it comes to construction and manufacturing. The entire world is hungry for climate-friendly solutions to solve problems for businesses.

I can point to a number of examples in our home provinces that are creating good-paying jobs for my neighbours today and for the residents of Nova Scotia. I can point to the carbon sequestration technology from a company like CarbonCure in Nova Scotia, which has been celebrated as one of the leading global companies when it comes to sequestration. I can look at Graphite Innovation and Technologies, which has invented a technology supported by research funding through Transport Canada. It has a more efficient hull paint for vessels that can make them 20% more efficient, not only reducing their fuel consumption but reducing the cost for people who use vessels to transport goods.

There are companies, such as the Trinity Group of Companies in my own community, that have embraced energy efficiency as a growth model for their community. When we shared news of a policy that allows homeowners to transition to heat pumps from home heating oil, it happened to be hosted at that particular location, and they were celebrating the fact that that day they had added their 100th employee. These are good-paying jobs in communities like mine.

There is no shortage of other examples. I look at Sheet Harbour, again in my constituency, and the work that RJ MacIsaac is doing to decommission and recycle the components of ships that would otherwise be run aground in some foreign country and left to rot, posing serious environmental consequences. Instead, RJ MacIsaac is creating good jobs in a small community like Sheet Harbour, Nova Scotia.

I would like to draw members' attention as well to a billion-dollar opportunity for our province in a new industry. The industry is green hydrogen and the company is EverWind Fuels. It plans to create a green hydrogen option that will create export opportunities to develop clean energy in my home province. It could be powered by offshore wind, allowing it to offer one of the cleanest fuel sources, which is in extraordinarily high demand.

It is important that we look at the pathway to success for opportunities like this and not merely ascribe our strategy to being one of hope. It also has to involve a thoughtful approach to policy development. That is where Bill C-49 comes in. This bill is important because it would amend the accord acts, which gave life to the Atlantic accords, political arrangements reached a number of decades ago, to expand the scope of the regulatory framework to include offshore renewable energy and not simply offshore oil and gas. Members will have seen the significant economic production of the offshore oil and gas industry in Atlantic Canada over the course of our lifetimes, but we have not seen the same return when it comes to offshore renewable opportunities.

With the introduction of Bill C-49, we would be creating a regulatory framework that would give certainty to investors that says we welcome their business here in Atlantic Canada and want them to create opportunities for our community members to work in our economy in a way that is sustainable and renewable and will help us power the next generation of the economy in Atlantic Canada by providing clean electricity. As the cost of pollution continues to rise and continues to have an impact on our communities, we need to do more to generate energy from renewable sources, including offshore wind, for example.

There are very real proposals to build companies and advance projects that create good-paying jobs for Nova Scotians in the offshore renewable sector. However, without a regulatory framework, investors will not know whether projects will have a clear pathway to approval, and they will potentially flee our jurisdiction in search of a more friendly country or province where they can make an investment.

Over the next 15 or perhaps 20 years, we expect to see investments approaching $1 trillion globally in the offshore renewable sector. We need to put our hands up and say that we want the investments that are going to create good-paying jobs for our neighbours in provinces like Nova Scotia. It is rare that we have the opportunity to debate legislation that has a specific impact on just a few provinces, including my home province of Nova Scotia, that may not be national in scale. However, by working with provincial governments such as those in Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia, both of which support this bill, we are going to advance opportunities to create good-paying jobs for people in our communities.

I should point out that although there is some anxiety among workers who traditionally take part in the energy sector about the potential to transition to a clean economy, I want to communicate that this bill would create opportunity for those same people to continue to work in good-paying jobs. I look at opportunities for friends of mine whom I have known since I was seven years old. They are heavy equipment operators, who traditionally are involved in road building or projects for replacing municipal water and sewers. When I speak to them now, they are increasingly working on projects that deal with the prevention of coastal erosion or projects that will make our communities more sustainable, such as, as I mentioned, decommissioning ships that could otherwise be left to rot somewhere, posing great environmental concerns.

With the introduction of Bill C-49, we have an opportunity to say we are going to create regulatory certainty for the businesses that want to make investments. We have found out that we can monetize wind in Atlantic Canada. Mr. Speaker, you and I know that wind is in plentiful supply in our part of the country. If we embrace the opportunity to tap into a new natural resource to create renewable energy for our economies, we can power the economy in a way that is good for our environment and good for the people who call your region and my region home.

We have only one planet. It is our duty to protect it, but by doing so we can create economic opportunities for a generation of workers who would otherwise not be able to have good-paying jobs so they can provide for their families. I am in support of this bill. I understand there is some division between the different parties in the House, but I would encourage all members, if they care about creating good-paying jobs in Nova Scotia and care about protecting our environment, to support this bill. It is the right thing to do and it is the smart thing to do.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the former and now fired minister of immigration and failing Minister of Housing has finally found his new job, after he was defeated, as the minister of meteorology.

I really hope he can answer two questions. One, why has his government allowed tidal energy to fail in Nova Scotia? Is it because of their lack of direction? Two, could he please explain quotes from the member for Avalon? He said:

I think [the carbon tax is] hurting them a fair bit. Everywhere I go people come up to me and say, “We're losing faith in the Liberal Party.”

I've had people tell me they can’t afford to buy groceries. They can’t afford to heat their homes and that’s hard to hear from especially seniors who live alone and tell me that they go around their house in the spring and winter time with a blanket wrapped around them because they can't afford home heating fuel and they can't afford to buy beef or chicken.

Can the minister explain that?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, while the hon. member resorts to personal attacks against me, I am going to remain focused on creating jobs for the people who live in our communities.

With respect, we have supported a number of projects that are pushing tidal energy in our province. As he starts to wave a kleenex because he is so upset about the answer I am providing to him, I will point out that while he claims to care about affordability, he is getting paid to go on fancy trips to the United Kingdom to enjoy luxury dinners that his constituents likely could not afford.

When it comes to supporting vulnerable people, we are going to continue to put measures in place that make life more affordable. I look at some of the legislation we are putting forward to help increase competition in the grocery industry. I look at measures I am personally advancing to make housing more affordable.

While the Conservatives throw insults at individuals across the way, we will put forward solutions that are designed to make life more affordable for my constituents and his.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think we all agree that implementing an agreement for managing offshore renewable energy with Newfoundland and Labrador means that there will be a labour issue, perhaps even a labour shortage. Plus, where there are workers, there needs to be housing. How lucky we are to have the minister responsible for housing here with us.

I have a question for him. If the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador were willing to match the federal government's contribution and put in something along the lines of, say, another $900 million for the construction of social and affordable housing over the next five years, would the minister be rushing to meet with government officials to start building these units as quickly as possible?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is very important to implement measures that will lead to more housing in every province.

Thankfully, I was able to engage with the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, both in my capacity as immigration minister and now in my capacity as the Minister of Housing, to help them reverse the population decline they were experiencing up until just last year. We helped them do that by advancing new immigration measures that were targeted to bring in the kinds of workers they need to power their economy. I have recently met with them, because we need to continue to advance measures that will help build more homes for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

We are working to advance investments in projects that will not only cover affordable housing but help build more housing, including in the city of St. John's. We are engaged right now with the city and the province to change the way the city builds homes to provide more affordable housing options for the workforce and for people who have long called the city home.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister started off talking about something we should all know in this House, and that is that climate change is real. Last week in this House, somebody from the maritimes, from South Shore—St. Margarets, said that wildfires across this country were manmade and that the hurricanes affecting his own region have happened for hundreds of years.

I am not from Newfoundland; I am from the Prairies. We saw some very similar issues with regard to transitioning workers and climate change, but what do we tell young people in our ridings? How do we respond to the fact that one of the major parties in this country refuses to admit that climate change is real in the House of Commons? On Friday, I was at a climate march in Montreal. I do not understand how I am supposed to speak to my constituents when we have a party that refuses to admit that climate change is real.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I respect the hon. member and very much appreciate her question, because I think it is important.

I sometimes experience some frustration when I hear members of this House speak publicly to school children and say that carbon pollution is just food for plants. When I hear them dismiss once-in-a-century severe weather events, which now seem to happen on an annual basis, as things that have always happened, I find it deeply concerning.

Thankfully, I believe Canadians are smart and they understand that climate change is real. They will compare the plans of the various parties to address the crisis of climate change, and they will vote accordingly, as they have since 2015.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Mr. Speaker, I am thankful for this opportunity to talk about Bill C-49 while standing on the unceded territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation.

I would like to start by acknowledging that indigenous leadership, knowledge and culture are critical to Canada's effort to fight climate change. For hundreds of generations, indigenous peoples have been the stewards of the land and waters, including Canada's oceans, as I was in my home of Unama'kik. It is clear that they continue to have a deep connection to the oceans that surround Canada. In my riding of Sydney—Victoria, the Mi'kmaq have a long and mutually beneficial relationship with the lakes and oceans that surround us.

In the spring of 2022, the federal government, in partnership with the provincial governments of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador, announced their joint intention to expand the mandate of existing offshore boards to regulate offshore renewable energy projects. That fall and into this past winter, officials from NRCan invited indigenous groups in Atlantic Canada to engage in the amendments that we are discussing today. That invitation was accepted, and government representatives were able to share information with interested indigenous communities about the proposed amendments and listen to the initial thoughts on the evolving offshore energy industry. As this bill was tabled, NRCan reached out again to indigenous groups and proposed further meetings, so they could discuss these amendments in even greater detail.

I can assure the House that the government remains committed to learning from and sharing information with indigenous groups, so we can better understand how offshore wind turbines and the economy they support will support indigenous peoples, including those in Sydney—Victoria.

Engagement efforts continued in the two regional assessments for offshore wind development in Atlantic Canada that were launched in March. Before they began, an independent committee was assembled to lead each assessment and work alongside indigenous groups to seek nominations for committee members. These members are required to develop and carry out indigenous participation plans, and the perspectives and knowledge of indigenous peoples will also be sought through indigenous knowledge advisory groups that were created for each regional assessment.

This government is deeply grateful that indigenous peoples are playing key roles in the development and success of Canada's energy industries. As project leaders, company owners, skilled managers and workers, and holders of indigenous knowledge, they are critical to observing, interpreting and addressing climate change.

Indigenous energy leadership is continuing into the clean technologies space, and I can attest first-hand that EverWind is looking to build a hydrogen production facility in Point Tupper and planning to power it with three wind farms. It is partnering with the Membertou Mi'kmaq community to jointly develop and operate two proposed farms: the 20-turbine Kmtnuk project and the 15-turbine Bear Lake project. That is an example of indigenous leadership in energy sectors to deliver clean, reliable and affordable power to our grids. These projects will create good, sustainable jobs and secure revenue for nations in the years ahead. These opportunities do not end at our shores; they extend well beyond them.

With global investments in offshore wind set to be worth $1 trillion, this bill is key to ensuring that this success continues. It will bring sustainable jobs and unlock unprecedented economic opportunity for indigenous peoples in my home of Sydney—Victoria and across the country. This is one reason that it is incredibly discouraging to hear the Conservative Party oppose this bill, attempting to block indigenous communities in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador from benefiting from new renewable energy projects.

Some members of the House have expressed concern that offshore energy regulators in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador will not carry out sufficient consultation with the indigenous groups potentially affected by offshore renewable energy projects. However, to the contrary, these boards are extremely capable of carrying out indigenous consultation and accommodation obligations on behalf of the government, and they have done so for many years.

The amendments proposed through this bill will simply clarify what is already established by case law and current practice: that both the Government of Canada and provincial governments can rely on the offshore regulators, the two boards, to fulfill the Crown's duty to consult and accommodate. The government remains ultimately responsible for the quality of the consultations and accommodations. The provinces understand this, and so do we.

By confirming this accords act, we reaffirm our commitments to both joint management Canada's offshore with the governments of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador and ongoing reconciliation with indigenous people.

To further underscore this point, these amendments include the authority for the offshore energy regulators to establish a participant funding program for any matter within their jurisdiction. This authority would ensure that they can facilitate engagement and consultation with indigenous groups and are able to carry out meaningful relationship-building with indigenous groups whose rights may be adversely affected by offshore energy activities.

Taken together, these amendments would strengthen the quality and the credibility of the efforts of the offshore energy regulators and contribute to open, balanced decision-making. It is also consistent with the authorities currently in place for other regulators, such as the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, the Canada Energy Regulator and the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada.

With Bill C-49, both offshore energy boards will have enough resources to undertake indigenous consultation, stakeholder engagement and thorough regulatory reviews of proposed projects. As we advance this legislation, I can assure the members of the House that, going forward, there will continue to be opportunities where indigenous groups are able to provide their valuable feedback on offshore wind.

First, there are two regional assessments that I have previously mentioned, and indigenous people will be included in any calls for information regarding wind energy areas of interest or actual calls for bids. This will allow indigenous groups to participate and lead in the development of good, renewable energy projects.

We know the government has a duty to consult with indigenous people on actions that could impact indigenous or treaty rights. We propose that, with these amendments, the government will be able to rely on Canada-Nova Scotia and Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador offshore energy regulators to meaningfully consult with indigenous groups on the government's behalf and make necessary assessments on the Crown's behalf to mitigate adverse impacts on indigenous and treaty rights. This does not mean that the Crown can abdicate its responsibility to fulfill its duty to consult and accommodate, as some have suggested it does. We actually think that it allows for a more robust process. The Crown will ensure that this duty is met.

I would like to conclude by highlighting the benefits that Bill C-49 will bring to the communities across Nova Scotia and, specifically, Cape Breton. The economic boom in Sydney—Victoria did not happen by chance. It happened because of bold investments and actions on the part of our government. Bill C-49 is another step in that direction.

Amendments to the Canada-Nova Scotia accord would expand the mandate of the Canada-Nova Scotia offshore board to regulate offshore renewable energy projects, including tidal, in the existing Canada-Nova Scotia offshore accord area. As a result, the benefit for all communities in Cape Breton would be vast. Not only would it continue to contribute to our ongoing economic boom through job creation, but it would also bring our province and country another step closer to meeting our emissions reduction targets.

All communities stand to benefit from the passage of Bill C-49. It would represent a vital step in the future of Nova Scotia offshore wind and offshore renewable energy technologies, which have the potential to electrify and decarbonize Canada's economy, creating substantial jobs and contributing to Canada's emerging clean hydro sector. Sydney—Victoria stands to benefit, and so does the rest of Nova Scotia.

It is deeply important that this bill pass swiftly, so indigenous communities such as those in my riding can benefit from the immense economic opportunity and new well-paying, sustainable jobs that will come with the offshore renewable industry. That is why we continue to make indigenous knowledge, and the commitment to protect the environment, an essential part of expanding our offshore energy industry. We continue to encourage our Conservative colleagues to do the same by agreeing to stop their opposition of the creation of new indigenous economic opportunities and by supporting this important legislation.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I heard the member for Sydney—Victoria talk at great length on the consultation with indigenous peoples on Bill C-49, which is very important. Not long ago, I spoke with one of his fellow Nova Scotian colleagues, who reiterated the same, so I asked him about consultation with non-indigenous fishermen. His response to me was, “Who cares about them? Why are you looking for trouble?”

Does the member for Sydney—Victoria agree with his fellow Nova Scotian Liberal colleague that consulting with non-indigenous fishermen is asking for trouble?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, our direction of making sure that we are looking at clean energy and clean wind energy, as well as our commitment to the environment, is going to help all fishermen in the Atlantic. We heard loud and clear from the United Nations, when I was out there at the conference in the spring, that the stocks and all the fisheries are jeopardized by climate change.

Unless we have a plan for the environment and for climate change, we do not have a plan for the fishermen who rely on those industries. It is important for us to understand that all benefit from our shift to the green and clean future, especially the fishermen of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and Cape Breton, where I am.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague opposite on his speech. His commitment to the environment is beyond any doubt.

As for Bill C-49, I have many questions.

As I read this bill, it struck me as a great way to conceal malicious intentions around oil and gas development.

Wind energy is great. Saying that we are going to produce green hydrogen is great. That is the positive side of the bill. However, is it not true that the bill sugar-coats a bitter pill?

The bill appears to promote wind energy, but is it not true that its real intention is to allow twice as much offshore oil and gas production and development down the road, as announced soon after this bill was introduced?

I would like to hear what my colleague has to say about the double-talk around this bill.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am always concerned about where we are heading in this country and in our society, but I know we have to take those first steps in the right direction. We have listened to indigenous knowledge from indigenous elders and indigenous leaders; they have told us that we need to do more for our environment and that we need to look out for future generations. This is why I believe that the heart of this bill is looking at renewable energies, the power of hydrogen energy and what we can do to make sure we have a sustainable future for our children. While we know there are still fossil fuels that we burn and there are still cars out there being driven, we have to step in that direction, so that is what I remain committed to doing.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was a tough summer for Halifax and Nova Scotia in general. I would like the member to reflect upon his government's policy for cell service. Back in 2018, there was a failure here in Ottawa on cell service related to a tornado and other weather conditions. This summer, we saw continual failures to provide accurate and accessible cell service by the large conglomerates. The member's government has been lax on rolling this out. At the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology, in 2018, we pulled them in for hearings, and most recently, the minister had them come forth when Rogers had an outage. However, we still do not have adequate and reliable service, which has been very costly for the citizens of Nova Scotia. What is the government going to do next?

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member opposite. Cell coverage and cell service is not only an important luxury to have but also an essential service for reporting, such as when we have hurricanes, fires or floods. Cell service and those alerts are very important. We need to do what we are doing with the grocery stores: We are calling the grocery store CEOs and saying that we need them to do more. We need the telecom companies to do more, and I think all parties and the government can agree that we need to go to these telecom companies and say that this is an essential service for our ridings and community members and that we need them to do more.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise on Bill C-48, an act that would amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

At the end of the day, this is about renewable projects that will start to move forward. Coming from my neck of the woods in Windsor, Ontario, with the auto industry, we have seen Canada fall from number two in assembly in the world—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I just want to give our hon. colleague an opportunity to correct himself. I believe he is standing up talking on Bill C-48 and the topic today is Bill C-49.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Please make sure that we are speaking to Bill C-49.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that my colleague is listening to me, so that is good. It is Bill C-49. I appreciate the correction. We would not want that to stand in the record here.

I want to talk about the connection to my community and renewables and also what is taking place with this bill in Atlantic Canada.

I asked my previous question about 911 calls that were dropped because we saw the east coast suffer significantly from the climate change that we are witnessing across the globe and across Canada, everything from wildfires to rain and other types of flooding events.

Even in my region, there are consequences with the Great Lakes, in southern Ontario. I think it is important, when we do public policy, that we start to remediate and look at some of the consequences of poor actions by Conservatives and Liberals in the past when it comes to the telco industry and communications, which are paramount in this.

I have spoken many times in this chamber about the fact that we are in our current problem with regard to cellphone and, especially, rural service, because we chose certain actions.

This government and the previous government set up an auction process for our spectrums. They gobbled up around $23 billion from the spectrum auctions since 2000. They are then making Canadians pay some of the highest prices because we do not have a telephone bill of rights.

Where did that money go? Successive governments, from Chrétien to Martin to Harper and now to our current administration, have raked all that cash in. At the same time, we have had no regulation on prices and accountability.

The accountability part is important because, in 2018, we witnessed a terrible situation here in Ottawa, with regard to tornadoes. We had special hearings about that, because 911 was out for a period of time or was reduced in service and quality and so forth. Even this past summer, the same thing just took place again in the Halifax region.

Shame on us for not forcing the telcos to provide better, reliable service. It is interesting, because the minister, in the Rogers thing, picked up the phone and called Rogers. He said that when he speaks, Rogers is going to actually listen and do something. It sounds like the grocery store plan that he has right now with the CEOs.

We know it did not work because Rogers recently sued the Competition Bureau and the tribunal process. It is getting Canadian taxpayers' money for the Competition Bureau fighting for Canadians against the acquisition of Shaw.

We have a system in place that has run amok. Under climate change, the consequences for communication are real, as we move quickly away from land lines, especially with the cost of operations. People cannot afford cellphone plans like family plans and a land line any more. Then other services are not available any longer.

It is a public interest aspect that is critical to our public policy, because the spectrum auction and the way that we roll out and have these companies abuse Canadians can all be taken in-house here.

We have seen other countries do that, but we will not do it because they lobby so hard and they basically have a hands-off policy. We do not have a telco bill of rights, which the NDP has been fighting for. We do not use a spectrum auction to make sure that we have lower prices, better access and higher accountability.

We have not done any of those things. I am worried that, with this bill here, we still have public policy with this void and the gap in the difference, which we could actually improve as transition takes place with climate change.

One of the things that has taken place in my region is with the auto sector. I was mentioning the transition in the auto sector. In my region, we were number two in the world in assembly and we have dropped to eighth. We have had to fight back most recently. Without a national auto policy, we have been slow off the mark for transitioning to a greener, cleaner auto industry.

We did our first press conference, with Joe Comartin and David Suzuki, in Windsor, on a green auto strategy back in 2006. That is also when I showed the film Who Killed the Electric Car?. That was an original GM vehicle; it was a clean, green machine that they took off the market.

We are finally seeing some good transitions. Yesterday, we had the Parliamentary Budget Officer in front of industry committee, and I was asking questions. We have recent announcements on Volkswagen and Stellantis, which add up to about $28 billion. The Parliamentary Budget Officer mentioned that these returns would not be as quick as the government was saying.

It was really good to get at that during the hearing. We realized, through the testimony, that it was still a better deal than the Trans Mountain pipeline. He had to look at the two situations, as requested. The Trans Mountain pipeline is already up to $31 billion, has fewer jobs connected to it and has greater environmental degradation related to it.

Meanwhile, on the Volkswagen and Stellantis deal, the money is only guaranteed, for the most part, if there is battery production. We have to meet it because our free-market American friends have brought in the Inflation Reduction Act. They are massively subsidizing their capital investments in the auto industry and other factors. In fact, they are just ramping it up.

I was at the national state legislatures meeting this past summer. The year coming up and another year after that will have the Democrats and Republicans spending more money than ever before, and doing it through corporate subsidization. That is allowed because of our situation regarding a trade agreement.

All we did was match what the U.S. did for Stellantis and Volkswagen, and thank goodness. This is a good shout-out for our UNIFOR workers who have been at the forefront of the transition for the economy for auto from day one. Dave Cassidy, John D'Agnolo and others in my region have been at the forefront making sure that we actually have a green transition economy and we get some of the new plants.

That is important because those vehicles are shipped primarily within Canada and the United States, and other parts of the world, and we will start being able to compete. The point is that, at least with that transition, we are going to see some improvements in the job guarantee components and the subsidy. Some of it goes to capital operations, but the vast majority goes to production.

We did not want to put him on the spot by asking which investment he would choose, between this and Trans Mountain, but it is just basically out the door all the time. There are no qualifications on any of that whatsoever. It was an interesting conversation yesterday and it fits well with what we are trying to do with climate change and reducing emissions on vehicles.

The auto industry has been one of the more centralized themes, in its producing and creating, as one of the toughest things that we have to change but it also offers some potential solutions. If we look at some of the products that are coming out now from the auto industry with this transition to batteries and so forth, it is also becoming generators and capacities within people's homes. We have other subsequent issues that we can apply our vehicles to in our houses to reduce emissions. There is a new future with that coming forward.

That applies to this act because it will help offset other areas of climate change. If we look at Newfoundland and Labrador, and Halifax, and we look at those offshore capabilities, those are also some of the things that were done in my region regarding windmills and wind turbines. They are not perfect by any means, but they are also part of the solution to advance different types of energy.

Sadly, the McGuinty government at that time and then the Wynne government brought in bad policy that still lingers to this day. That is why we will have to be looking to make sure that Bill C-49 would be a solid bill at the end of the day, and have subsequent follow-through. They brought in some private sector proponents and it turned into a fundraiser when it came to the issue of the Green Energy Act that was passed in Ontario.

The important aspect of this is that, when we see these projects and the subsidies going forward to them, and the policies that are happening, people feel confident in them. That is what I am hoping will come from this bill. I hope when the elements become real and substantial, people will support them.

I noticed a significant difference in my community in the auto sector. We have one of the most successful manufacturing plants from the Second World War building the Chrysler minivan. It was not Stellantis, but it was Chrysler.

We fought for years in this House for a basic auto policy that would be transparent, and that is what is going to be necessary for new projects in Bill C-49.

I was part of the discussion yesterday when we had the Parliamentary Budget Officer in place. I noted that we had to rescue Chrysler in the past, and that led to a plant that still exists today and the government made money on it, as it was done right. Most recently, we have had some auto investment for helping General Motors and others. Had the Conservatives not cashed in the shares they got from General Motors, we would have made more money on that investment, but they cashed them out early for ideological reasons and we did not get the return we should have.

I stood here in this chamber when Jim Flaherty said that we cannot pick winners or losers and could not do anything about it. Thank goodness he switched his position. I am eternally grateful for that. He was a hard worker, somebody one could approach, and he did a lot of work for Canada. He switched his position on that, which is how we rescued General Motors at that time, despite the objections of many people and parties. It was a forethought that this could open up the new investment that we are getting now not only in the Oshawa area, but in Ingersoll and other places where we see the auto return.

In fact, it is coming back to Quebec. The Sainte-Thérèse plant closed a long time ago, which was a shame because our auto investment in our supply chain was critical along the lines. It was important to rescue that plant, but at that time there was no support from the government and it was unfortunately lost, but that is one of the returns we are seeing now. They are involved in new battery manufacturing, which is critical, because Ontario and Quebec manufacturing is very solid.

When projects come forward, in this bill I am hoping there is also going to be the potential for other provinces to tap into some of the manufacturing, supply and servicing that is going to be required for some of the new investments for clean energy. We have seen that in a number of years in our region, as parts of the manufacturing took place for the wind turbines in Windsor and Essex County, and in other places it had to be shipped in. Some of it was shipped in from overseas, but there was a lot domestically produced, so we have an advantage hopefully to prepare and to be the manufacturers of the materials, goods, services and servicing.

As a side topic to some of this, the planning has to be done because we are looking at energy. I am a long-time critic of the deep repository for nuclear waste that is being proposed in the Bruce Peninsula area. It wants to be one of the first places ever in the world to do this, bury nuclear waste next to some of the largest freshwater reserves in the world. Only a couple of these facilities have been built, which have caught on fire or leaked. It wants to build and bury that for over 100 million years. That is a legacy of nuclear waste that we have to factor in, so there is a decision pending on that. The government and other members have been quiet on this. I have not because I have been there and have seen what is happening. The community is being greased by the nuclear industry with respect to extra resources and a number of things. There is lobbying going on, and that is fine, but it has to be based on reasonable expectations. Ironically, the original proposal was turned down by the Saugeen First Nation, so it moved a mile off the site and proposed a new one there.

The point I am making is there is a legacy cost involved in all of this, and servicing costs, and we have to build those in. That is why this opportunity in Bill C-49 is important for jobs and the economy. It is important that we try and get in front of some of the domestic work we can do.

The climate change aspect is critical in this; to fight back against these things is going to take large and small projects. It is important that we feel momentum and that we can control some of these measures and have input. When people turn on the TV and see the mess that is taking place not only in Canada, but other places in the world, I get a lot of young people asking what we can do. There are a lot of things we can do regarding our own behaviour, our country's behaviour internationally, and how we respond to this. I have a private member's bill on the Ojibway national urban park to do that.

It would actually create a green space that would stop flooding and soak up the negative resources with regard to the water in the spillage that can take place into industrial areas and residential areas. It would also have an effect for 200 of Canada's 500 endangered species.

When we look at these projects that are taking place and go forward with Bill C-49, I am hoping they also get community benefits. I want to talk about community benefits a little because it does not have them in now, which is why local members from that area should be fighting tooth and nail for this addition. If the bill concludes with some of those elements later on, it would provide control and supports for the community.

My first public meeting to get a new border crossing in Windsor was in 1998. We went for a long period of time. We fought off an American billionaire who wanted to twin the Ambassador Bridge and ram it right through the west end of the city, cutting us off. We fought off OMERS, one of the largest pension funds, which wanted to put a truck route right through south Windsor, destroying the environment with a truck route.

We finally got a compromise for a new bridge. Part of the new bridge project includes community benefits on both the Canadian and American sides. Those benefits allow the community to opt in to these larger projects. It is a $5-billion project. All we could get was $10 million on both sides, but at least it was a start. It was historic, the first time it was done. However, the $10 million goes into a community fund from which other projects then emerge. There is conservation money and money for homes with regard to greening, offsetting the damage of the construction that is taking place. The inclusion of projects would build a legacy. All of those things make people feel better and stronger about the massive investment they get with regard to an energy project or something else.

I am hoping that there is going to be an opportunity for community benefits to be put into this bill to ensure people there get to see what we have seen so strongly in our area. Again, the community benefits process is everything from not only the project getting done but also constant community consultation about what those things would be, and control. That is critical when it comes to having some empowerment, so the people feel stronger about the investments, and also the value when they look out and see the windmills and some of the changes that physically take place. That was a concern we had with regard to our project.

What also has to happen, and the reason I mentioned the nuclear component and the legacy costs, is that we still have to look at what we do with the end of the life cycle of a windmill and wind turbine. We did have some testimony at the industry committee recently about this. I asked about those things. There is no real plan for any of that right now. We do not want to have to basically rip things down and ship them hundreds of miles away on large transportation platforms that would create more greenhouse gas emissions, just to be recycled. We have to think about a long-term plan, because as of now, Windsor-Essex County and Chatham-Kent have a scattering of windmills across them, creating green energy. Eventually, the windmills' lifespan is going to cease and they will need either refurbishment, replacement or recycling.

These are important elements that we should be building into the cost of things. It is kind of the argument the NDP has been making for years on manufacturing's extended producer liability. That is critical because with public funds involved, it is not just the cost of the moment. This is what federal governments have been really particularly abusive of in the past: getting in on the capital of something at the very beginning and then walking away from the operational legacy. We have seen this in the housing industry. There are so many market rental units right now that need fixing up.

I want to say that I am appreciative of the opportunity to speak to this bill, because my region has a connection through the work that has been done. I want to conclude by again saying that we have to take seriously the public infrastructure that we have. Why I started with telco on this is because climate change is going to require us to be quicker and more responsive. No longer should governments be letting the three giants run their way with the rest of Canada.

Alleged Misleading Response to Order Paper Question

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on a point of order to briefly provide additional information on the question of privilege I raised yesterday.

I would like to point out that the government failed to disclose over $200,000 in costs incurred for the Prime Minister's ski trip to Montana, in Order Paper question responses, not once but at least twice. In the government's response to Question No. 1417, which was filed by the member for Mégantic—L'Érable and signed off by the then parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister and the current Speaker of the House, part (f) of the question clearly asks, “are there any costs incurred or expected to be incurred by the government related to the trip that are not included in the response to (a) and, if so, what are those costs or expected costs, broken down by item and type of expense?”

The government was clearly aware of the extra $200,000 in costs that would be incurred, yet it failed to provide that information in the response.

In a second Order Paper answer, this time to Question No. 1582, which was also filed by the member for Mégantic—L'Érable, the government was given a second chance to provide the real cost of the Prime Minister's trip. However, again, it failed to do so.

This is a pattern. I ask that it be considered that the government misled the House in both Order Paper questions answered, and that both instances be considered.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I thank the member for that. Of course we will add that to the investigation that we will be doing.

The hon. parliamentary Secretary to the government House leader.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-49, An Act to amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I look at Bill C-49 as an opportunity where we have consensus for a very important region of the nation. Our regions look for economic development and prosperity. I look at the accord, what we are debating today, as something that has virtually universal support. We want to see this legislation pass. We have seen numerous members of the Atlantic Liberal caucus actually speak to the legislation and its importance.

Given the wide spectrum of support for the legislation, is the member at all surprised that the Conservatives seem to want to sit on the legislation or are not being outspoken in favour of seeing the legislation in the first place?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak for the Conservatives on that. However, I will say that when we have an opportunity, we have to seize it, with this type of support coming from the provinces. Time is of the essence on this. Climate change is not going to wait for parliamentary procedure. Climate change is not going to wait for us and for the government to get its act together in regard to how it deals with telcos and making sure that they provide proper 911 service for people during emergencies. That is why I would like to seize upon the added value that we can get in this bill, whether that would be the community benefits I mentioned or whether that would be in being more specific in demanding that the telcos be more accountable for their actions, because people's lives are at risk.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to highlight some Nova Scotians who might be affected by Bill C-49, even though the member for Windsor West really did not.

My friend and former physician colleague Beau Blois and his family have been named provincial Woodland Owner of the Year. They have a round barn. They have Angus beef, and they are renowned in the region for what they do. I thank Beau and Laura for what they do.

Next, I would like to highlight Jeremy Dobson and Justin McKay, who have created the first significant Afghanistan memorial in my riding.

Finally, I offer heartfelt condolences to my assistant Holly Miller, whose father, sadly, has passed. Her father, Gary, would have been significantly affected by Bill C-49.

I am thankful for the opportunity to highlight those folks.