Debates of Sept. 26th, 2023

Foreign Affairs and International Development

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I think the member will recall that, not that long ago, perhaps about an hour or so, the Minister of Foreign Affairs spoke. I think it is fairly clear what the government is prepared to do. My question is in regard to the process. The previous question I asked was in regard to the value of the foreign affairs committee.

Does the member recognize that the foreign affairs committee has done a great deal of work on this issue? It seems to me the committee had no sense this was going to be coming up for debate today.

Would she not agree that, as a common courtesy, the foreign affairs membership should have been at least told about what was going to happen today because they have been so deeply engaged on the issue?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting that the member is coming after me based on a procedural matter when there are lives at stake. There are civilians who are at risk of losing their lives and others who have already lost their lives. I am curious if the hon. member would like to comment on the action his government might take concerning this crisis.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, no one is disputing the fact that Canada should be more vocal in denouncing what is happening right now in Nagorno‑Karabakh, but I keep coming back to the same question. I have to wonder about the relevance of proposing this debate today, when we were supposed to be discussing housing and inflation.

My colleague was just talking about the deaths in Nagorno‑Karabakh. I am sorry, but 10,000 homeless people have been identified across Quebec in the past year. Winter is coming, which means there will be deaths in Quebec too. I know there are people experiencing homelessness in Toronto, Vancouver and across Canada. People will die if we do not take firm action to deal with this crisis.

Does my colleague really think that today is the best time to talk about this issue?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will return the question. If today is not a good time to talk about the potential of a genocide, when is a good time to talk about it? Would there be a more convenient time for the member?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as was highlighted earlier, given the escalation of events that have taken place in the past week, and the seriousness of this issue, my colleague talked about the need for action. She highlighted, at the very end of her speech, taking action with respect to applying sanctions against Azerbaijani officials. Does she support the NDP's call to apply sanctions against Azerbaijani officials and to take action with respect to what was reflected in her speech? Will the Conservatives support our call for action?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, our focus would be to ask the government to take action regarding the diplomatic relationship we have with Armenia. We would engage in dialogue with Azerbaijan on Armenia's behalf. We would advocate for humanitarian aid to make its way into the region of Nagorno-Karabakh and that the corridor be opened, so people could flow freely and goods can come in so that people could eat and folks could access necessary medicines. Those are the things we would be advocating for.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the procedural aspects of this debate are way at the bottom of the list, but I want to briefly mention them in the context of a comment. It is my understanding that other parties in this case were informed of our intention to move this concurrence debate. Respectfully, there have been instances in the past where other parties have been informed that there was a problem with the information getting to the members who work on the file, but we can hardly be held accountable for those challenges.

We put forward this concurrence motion at one of the earliest possible opportunities following the government's response. We believed it was an important issue to discuss as soon as possible, and we moved to bring it forward at one of the earliest possible opportunities because of the urgency of the situation.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will allow my hon. colleague to leave his comments there.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Chatham-Kent—Leamington.

I will be speaking to this motion for concurrence on the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh. Some people tuning in right now or who have been following this debate may want to know where this place is. It is north of Iran. It is an area north of Iran, south of Russia, and in between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. I do not know if that helps, but it is a landlocked region populated by ethnic Armenians who have lived in this region for many hundreds of years. It is a semi-autonomous enclave within Azerbaijan, which is next to Armenia. A lot of that was formed politically during the time of the USSR, or the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. There is a long history not only of people living there, but also of tensions, and hopefully solutions.

As of late, there have been thousands of ethnic Armenians fleeing Nagorno-Karabakh for Armenia because of hostilities and the pressures they have been facing in this region from the Azerbaijani military. There have been some bombardments. There has been a degradation of the United Nations peacekeeping forces there. This has caused some real instability.

There was a ceasefire agreement that officials agreed to, which was to dissolve their armed forces. The Armenians had backed up this area so that they could fight to protect themselves. They have agreed to disarm themselves to the Azerbaijani military because it has military superiority there. That essentially means they are sitting ducks. They are helpless. They are in a terrible situation. That is why we are bringing this up as a motion to debate right now. It is important.

I have heard different members from the other parties make suggestions about discussing this or that, as there are many issues of importance to debate. We can talk about many issues in the House. Right now, this is an opportunity to focus on a very serious situation that is happening in the world where many Canadians have connections to. They may come from the region, and they are very concerned.

There are also a lot of geopolitical problems. Iran is backing up Armenia. Russia is there, and there are a number of other nations. This has the potential to really explode beyond what the situation is right now, so it is important that we have this discussion and that Canada is at the plate to bring it forward, not necessarily long-term solutions, but things to help the situation.

There has been a humanitarian crisis and an influx of refugees. The conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh has a long history with two major wars being fought in the past three decades. Azerbaijan regained control of a significant part of this region in 2020 after a conflict. There was an agreement that Nagorno-Karabakh would cede the control of a lot of the villages around the main population of the city. That was an agreement between the Russians, the Azerbaijani and Armenia, with peacekeepers also being brought in.

There has been a reneging of that agreement, which is causing some real serious problems. The number of displaced people is increasing and efforts to provide humanitarian aid and shelter for those people are being seriously affected. The situation highlights the challenges faced by refugees and internally displaced persons not only in that region but also worldwide. We have seen that also in Ukraine, with the invasion by Russia, where there have been many displaced people and many refugees. This is a terrible situation.

Canada is one of the most multi-ethnic, multicultural nations on this planet, so all these connections impact our nation.

The recent conflict has resulted in casualties, and there are concerns about the well-being of the Armenian population. The exodus highlights, and we have seen pictures of the thousands of people fleeing this region and all the cars lined up, the need for humanitarian assistance and protection.

The International Committee of the Red Cross has successfully negotiated a humanitarian consensus to deliver essential aid to the Nagorno-Karabakh region on September 18. It is one thing for people and nations to say one thing and it is another thing for them to actually do it, which is the concern on the implementation of the agreement.

Right now, there is a very dire situation. There is a lack of basic necessities getting through. Essentials like food, hygiene products and medical items are being rationed. Essentially, this area is under siege. What is a siege? Going back throughout history, a siege is when a region, a castle or an area is cut-off from being able to provide for itself.

This region is now under a siege warfare, which essentially has the purpose of having them surrender. The purpose is to have the people leave the ancestral area they have lived in for many hundreds of years for Azerbaijan. That is of great concern.

This is a very hilly area. As I mentioned earlier, it is a landlocked area. There is essentially one major road to get through, and that is called the Lachin corridor. In the past year or so, it has been very difficult to get humanitarian aid and medical supplies through. As the Conservative member for Wellington—Halton Hills mentioned, about one-third of the population is malnourished and at risk of starvation. There actually have been cases of starvation in this area. It is imperative we open up this corridor for food and medical supplies so people can freely provide for themselves. While looking at other alternative routes is fine, right now this is really the only viable solution as far as providing aid and assistance.

There are military tensions between Armenia and Azerbaijan. We are right now on the cusp of seeing military action moving in, where there could be many thousands of deaths. It was not that long ago the Armenia population, the majority residing in this region, underwent a serious genocide. Over a million Armenians were killed or sent on death marches throughout the region. They just fell dead from exhaustion or malnutrition. This is in the recent past.

Our concern is not hypothetical. Our concern is the potential of another genocide happening in this area. We do not want to see this. We are calling on the federal government to exert pressure and to collaborate with others to open this corridor, and not just to be a silent partner. It is fine to say the words, but we call on it to be involved in order to see this corridor open, to see resolution and to allow the people of Nagorno-Karabakh to have self-determination.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the process that ultimately led us to having this debate at this time is very questionable. I will put that to the side right now, because the seriousness of the issue does deserve it. I will amplify what I believe, and the member has made reference to it, is the Lachin corridor's impact on communities. This is a very important connection. The impact of these obstructions causes so much harm, whether it is the potential of starvation or other significant things happening in communities because of the closing down of this corridor.

I am wondering if the member can provide his thoughts in regard to his constituents. This is very much about what we find with respect to Canadians values, that Canadians want parliamentarians to recognize when we see human rights being violated and have those discussions. This is one of the reasons we have a standing committee on foreign affairs. It is so policies and thoughts can be developed based on our values as a Canadian society, rule of law, freedoms and so forth, which are being limited in a very serious way overseas.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are hearing a different tone from the member, which is appreciated. Up to this point, he has been saying that we should not be talking about this or that, or that we are wasting time.

I do hear from constituents from various backgrounds. Canada is a peace-loving, democratic nation that wants to see the rule of law, that wants see people enjoying freedom and not being malnourished or ill-treated.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as we come to the end of the debate, it is important to underline the importance of this topic and the importance of responding to what various experts have called a genocide, according to the international definition, recognizing Canada's obligations to respond, and also the importance of not brushing off international aggression.

I asked the foreign affairs minister earlier what Canada's response to this aggression was. She said that we would keep telling Azerbaijan not to do it. That clearly is not having the desired effect.

Therefore, I wonder if the member could share further comments on what the Government of Canada needs to do, if it is really serious about defending human rights and upholding our obligations under the genocide convention and about protecting people in this incredibly challenging and vulnerable situation.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one thing the government should make clear is that there is a right to self-determination. That has already been discussed and agreed to in the past, and it seems to have been put on the back burner. It is important to recognize that there are some very significant differences between the people in this enclave and the rest of Azerbaijan. They are different. They are Armenian; they are of a more Indo-European background as opposed to Turkic. They are Christian as opposed to Shiite Muslim. There are major differences. In some ways, the Russian government initially kept these different regions off kilter and off balance. We need to encourage provision and be an active part in international forums for the right of self-determination.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my colleague from Winnipeg North. Let us drop the debate on the relevance of today's motion. I think we have talked about it enough since this morning.

However, the answers have not been clear. Essentially, Canada is a small player on the international stage. Something very serious is happening right now in Nagorno‑Karabakh. What response would have a real impact on the Armenian people there?

How could we respond now, today? What can we actually do, here in the House, to improve the situation of the Armenian people there?

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Québécois member made a good point when he said that Canada is a small player, and I think that is really terrible. Our country is becoming more and more of a small player. Because of the Liberals and their international policies, we are in this sad and embarrassing situation and we lack power. We are losing power and influence, and that really needs to change. If we were to show leadership on this issue, it may slightly improve our influence on the world stage.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we would like to have a recorded division on this.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Pursuant to Standing Order 45, the division stands deferred until later this day at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

World Health Organization

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today I rise to present a petition that was signed by constituents of Haldimand—Norfolk and Canadians across the country. There are 18,973, almost 20,000, Canadians from every provinces and territory who have signed this petition.

The petition addresses the changes to the international health regulations of the World Health Organization, which is the legally-binding rules that govern the conduct of nations when it comes to responding to public health events and emergencies, such as pandemics.

Understanding that since this petition was signed, further changes were made to the international health regulations this summer, the petitioners are still concerned that the proposed expansion of the World Health Organization's powers and authorities could have far-reaching impacts on health care, sovereignty and the lives and human rights of Canadians.

The petitioners are calling for an urgent parliamentary debate on the international health regulations amendments and on the World Health Organization pandemic treaty, which is due to be signed in May 2024.

Expression of Political Opinion

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to present a petition from Canadians who are concerned about the right to protect Canadian citizens against discrimination. The petitioners acknowledge that Canadians can and do face political discrimination and that it is a fundamental Canadian right to politically be active and vocal.

It is in the best interest of Canadian democracy to protect public debate and the exchange of differing ideas. Bill C-257 seeks to add protection against political discrimination to the Canadian Human Rights Act.

The petitioners are therefore calling on the House to support Bill C-257, which would ban discrimination on the basis of political belief or activity, and defend the rights of Canadians to peacefully express their political opinions.

Ocean Ecosystem

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to table this petition on behalf of constituents from my riding in Parksville, Qualicum Beach, Courtenay and Cumberland.

Canadians care deeply about the health of the ocean and depend on a thriving ocean ecosystem. However, in 2019, over one million cruise ship passengers travelled off of British Columbia on their way to Alaska.

The petitioners cite that Canada's regulations under the Canada Shipping Act addressing the discharge of sewage and grey water are much less stringent than those in U.S. Pacific coastal states and that Canada permits sewage to be discharged with 18 times greater fecal coliform counts than does Alaska, which has an impact on the shellfish industry. The Salish Sea in Washington State is a no-discharge zone prohibiting the discharge of sewage in order to protect public health, water quality and sensitive marine resources.

The petitioners want to see that happen in British Columbia. They want set standards for cruise ship sewage and grey water discharges, designated no-discharge zones to stop pollution in marine protected areas and require a regular, independent, third-party monitoring while ships are under way to ensure discharge requirements are met.

Old-Growth Forests

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am thankful for the opportunity to represent the extraordinary population of Saanich—Gulf Islands in presenting a petition that deals with a convergence of a number of really critical issues facing Canada today: issues of indigenous reconciliation, the climate crisis and our forests. Petitioners note the linkages here, that respect for indigenous peoples and their territorial sovereignty should lead us to greater protection of a key part of the carbon cycle and carbon sequestration, which is old-growth forests.

They call on the Government of Canada and provincial governments to recognize these linkages; to act with urgency to protect old-growth forests for their repositories of biodiversity, for storage of carbon and in recognition of indigenous sovereignty; and with indigenous management of lands recognized by levels of government as part of reconciliation, to act to preserve old-growth forests, stop their logging and move more urgently to address the climate crisis.

Freedom of Expression

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to stand today to offer this petition that really adds protection against political discrimination. It is based on a private member's bill from my colleague from Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

Petitioners call upon the House of Commons to support Bill C-257, which would ban discrimination on the basis of political belief or activity. This is especially important in Canada today. They also call upon the House to defend the rights of Canadians to peacefully express their political opinions.

Canada Revenue Agency

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition on behalf of Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon. Petitioners are calling for a change to the way CRA recognizes partner separations. As it stands, former partners who continue to reside at the same residence are still recognized as couples, which can affect benefit eligibility, especially in cases where children may be involved.

With housing costs continuing to skyrocket under the current government, many Canadians have no choice but to continue to reside in their former partner's home. Therefore, petitioners are calling on the Minister of National Revenue to instruct the CRA to modernize its definition of a common-law partnership to recognize that some former couples may remain at the same residence after separation.

Freedom of Expression

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to present a number of petitions to the House today on behalf of my constituents. The first is in support of an excellent private member's bill, Bill C-257, which I have proposed.

The bill would seek to add political belief and activity as prohibited grounds of discrimination under the Canadian Human Rights Act. Petitioners note the ongoing and growing problem of people facing discrimination on the basis of their political views. People who have faced discrimination on the basis of other factors, such as religion, sexual orientation, ethnic background, etc., can seek remedy through the Canadian Human Rights Act, but a person who faces discrimination based on their political views cannot.

Bill C-257 seeks to change that by adding a new protection to the Human Rights Act on the basis of political belief. Petitioners, in addition to calling on the House to support this bill, call on the House to defend the rights of Canadians to peacefully express their political opinions.