Debates of Sept. 28th, 2023

Opposition Motion—Carbon Taxes

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's mention of the carbon pricing that we introduced in British Columbia in 2008. As a B.C. member, it has been my experience that it has been most effective and revolutionary.

I would like the hon. member to speak further to that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, thanks for the opportunity to repeat this. The member for Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge said in the B.C. legislature, “Independent studies have found that between 2008 and 2012, fuel use in B.C. dropped by 16 percent per capita. In 2015, a review of seven independent studies suggested that B.C.’s carbon tax has reduced emissions in the province by up to 15 percent.” These are not my words. These are the words of the member for Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge when he was part of a government in British Columbia that introduced a price on pollution.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Madam Speaker, John Maynard Keynes said when the facts change, he changed his opinion. What changed in the last few years is that we are now in a cost of living crisis. Someone does not have to be Einstein's cousin to understand if we reduce the carbon tax, we will reduce inflation. Everybody is saying that.

Why can this member not exercise some independent thought for once?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, circumstances certainly have changed. The only thing that has changed in terms of re-evaluating the position of the Conservative Party is a new leader because the member who just asked me a question ran in 2021 on pricing pollution. His colleagues ran on it in previous years. Yes, absolutely circumstances change and that leads to other outcomes, but the only circumstance that has changed is the individual he is taking his marching orders from now.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his statement. He was talking about government investments into programs and looking for ways to mitigate the carbon footprint here in Canada. I know his father, John Gerretsen, was responsible for the Greenbelt.

Can the member talk about the advantage of government really investing in climate change and looking for ways to mitigate CO2?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, given that the member brought it up, under the leadership of Dalton McGuinty, my father was the environment minister at the time. He created, with the help of so many people, the Greenbelt. It established an area that homes would not be built on, because the policies of the day were to make areas more intense and dense. Doug Ford looked to completely eliminate that, but we all see how that worked out for him. He had to reverse his position on that, probably exposing the Ontario people to huge liability in terms of court cases.

The reality of the situation is that government does have the ability to bring in policies and practices that could genuinely shape the outcome. We saw it then and we can continue to see it now with policies we are bringing in.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, as a Nova Scotia member of Parliament, I stood in this House last week and was frankly disturbed by the fact that the Conservative Party of Canada is standing against Bill C-49, which is a piece of legislation that drives Atlantic Canada's offshore future. I was calling on the members from Newfoundland and Labrador, and Nova Scotia, who are Conservative, to stand up for their constituencies to be able to make a difference. Of course, the Conservatives like to talk about the carbon price, but they refuse to talk about ways we enable renewable energy and the way that we drive innovation forward.

Can the member for Kingston and the Islands provide some reflections of his surprise about the fact that the Conservatives will not support us on this bill?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, even if Conservatives do not believe in climate change, do not believe that renewables are the answer and that it is going to be oil and gas forever, why would they not be in favour of unlocking the potential of this economic opportunity? It really speaks volumes to their position. They are more interested in suppressing economic opportunity and promoting the oil and gas sector than they are in their own constituents.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, before I start, I would like to inform you that I am splitting my time with my very eloquent and passionate advocate and colleague from Mégantic—L'Érable.

It was all a scam. The carbon tax was sold when a bumper sticker should have been slapped on that said, “Not as advertised”.

The Liberals sold it a few ways. They said that more Canadians would get more back into their pockets with these phony rebates than what they would have to pay into it. The Parliamentary Budget Officer proved that was false and made it very clear in his report that Canadians would pay more into this scam than what they would get back in these phony rebates.

The Liberals also said they would solve climate change and make everything better, that they would make emissions come down. That was proven false by their own Parliamentary Budget Officer, as emissions keep going up and they have not hit a single emissions reduction target they set for themselves. This is why they should have thrown on a bumper sticker that said, “Not as advertised”. This was a scam from day one and it is coming to light now.

The carbon taxes and the carbon tax scam are also very discriminatory because every province feels them differently and gets charged differently. For Albertans, it is yet another attack on our province by the Prime Minister. Not only has he repeatedly kicked Albertans down, he has also made sure that Alberta does not again become the prosperous province it used to be. By introducing Bill C-69, supported by the NDP, the Liberals and NDP made sure that no good pipeline projects would be able to be completed in this country. Pipelines are great way to lower emissions and not have our products transported on trains and trucks. They are safer, more secure and will bring down emissions. They can bring home not only more powerful paycheques for Canadians, but jobs, prosperity and a better economy.

We can see that the world today wants clean, responsible, low-carbon Canadian energy, but the policies and radical left ideology of the Liberal-NDP government are not allowing it. It has repeatedly blocked projects. What is the result of that? We see dictatorships around the world making profits. We see emissions going up. As an example, Germany's chancellor came to Canada within the last year literally asking for our liquid natural gas and was willing to take it immediately. The Prime Minister had more than 15 good LNG projects on his desk when he became Prime Minister. Not one has been completed yet. When he turned Germany's chancellor away, the chancellor went to Qatar, which has fewer human rights and environmental regulations than Canada. He bought LNG there, when he could have got it from Canada, which has the highest human rights and environmental standards when it comes to producing clean, responsible energy.

What is the result of all of this? Last winter we saw heating costs double. We heard stories of seniors having to turn down the heat in their homes and literally making do with blankets during the wintertime because, after eight years of the irresponsible Liberal-NDP government, things are way more expensive than they have ever been before. These costs have driven up everything and have made it so that 1.5 million Canadians are now visiting a food bank in a single month. Liberal inflation has driven up interest rates and Canada is most at risk in the G7 for a mortgage default crisis. This has also driven up rents and everything else.

When I met this single mother, she told me the reality of her situation. She is a single mom of three kids. Her rent went up by $600. She could not afford to eat. She could not afford to feed her kids and heat her home at the same time. What did she have to do? She had to move in with her abusive ex-husband once again and live in that same situation because she could not afford to feed her kids anymore.

The Liberal-NDP government refuses to acknowledge that the carbon tax has real consequences. When the government is taxing the farmer who makes the food, the trucker who ships the food, the manufacturer and the people who are storing the food, that tax ultimately goes on the Canadian who is buying the food. That is the sad reality after eight years of the current incompetent Liberal-NDP government.

Canadians' disposable income is getting smaller and smaller due to the deficits that the Liberal government continues to drive up. It is not just that: The Liberals have increased the cost of a house by doubling the amount of mortgages and rents and the time it takes to save up for a down payment on a house. They are also increasing the costs inside the house, like heat, gas and grocery costs. All of these have gone up and they are all inflationary, which was proven by the Governor of the Bank of Canada.

Canada could be the world leader today in clean, responsible energy that could actually bring down global emissions, and not just emissions in Canada. We could provide for the whole world. We have enough. We just have a Liberal-NDP government that is the ultimate gatekeeper of the success of Canada. There are many marginalized communities that work in the energy sector. The Liberal-NDP woke government, due to its crazy left ideology, has stopped those marginalized communities from being able to be successful here in Canada. Over and over again, we see authoritative, crazy left ideology out-trump common sense.

However, common sense would be restored once again in this country when the member for Carleton becomes prime minister of this country. We would green-light green projects. Canada is 64th in the world for permitting. We would make sure that good projects like hydro, tidal and nuclear would actually be built in this country. We would get pipelines built so we could bring down world emissions. We would make sure that our first nations and indigenous brothers and sisters would also become prosperous once again, under a Conservative government, when we partner with them and make sure that we get Canada back to the successful state it needs to be once again.

We would scrap this failed carbon tax so the cost of gas, groceries and home heating would come down. We would make sure that we get more energy produced in this country so that we could lower the cost of energy.

That is what the world needs, that is what Canada needs and that is what Canadians need. When the member for Carleton becomes prime minister, we would bring those things home. We would bring home powerful paycheques and we would bring home lower costs for our people.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, there was a lot that my hon. colleague touched upon in that 10 minutes that I have real trouble with, in its factual basis. One, farmers are exempt from the carbon price. The Conservatives continue to talk about that. They are exempt. Two, the member talked about indigenous communities and large industrial projects. His party is standing in the way of legislation that indigenous communities in Atlantic Canada are calling for to help make a difference on those industrial projects he talks about in the renewable energy sector.

However, I am going to ask the member a very simple question because I do want to see where the Conservatives stand. They talk about cutting all carbon pricing, but yet many industrial projects, like ones in Saskatchewan and in his home province of Alberta, are building industrial capacity on the basis of carbon pricing. Would his party cut all forms of carbon pricing that are really important to the industrial future of his province as well?

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, the member is completely out of touch. He is out of touch with the farmers whom his government continues to attack with this carbon tax, which has actually driven up the cost of everything. When farmers are driving tractors on their farms, they are hit with the carbon tax. When they are drying their grain, they get hit with the carbon tax. How can he possibly say that farmers are exempt from carbon taxes? This guy is completely out of touch.

We need to axe the carbon tax, and he needs to join with his Newfoundland premier who also wants to scrap this and actually recognizes that the costs have gone up because of this failed carbon tax scam.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague, with whom I have the honour of serving on the Standing Committee on Finance. When we were debating—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Order.

Could I ask the hon. members to please keep the noise down so the hon. member for Joliette can ask a question?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, I do not want to wait. I apologize because I was yelling back and forth. I would like to apologize and let the record show that. When the Conservatives actually stand up and say that things are—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

That is debate. I think the hon. member's apologizing is sufficient.

The hon. member for Joliette.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Madam Speaker, let me start over. I thank my friend and colleague, with whom I have the honour of serving on the Standing Committee on Finance.

The Conservative member for Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis was very critical of the carbon tax that was allegedly charged on a propane bill in Quebec. In doing so, it was not the federal carbon tax she was criticizing, but a policy of the Quebec government under Jean Charest—the Conservative leadership candidate she supported—and Philippe Couillard, under whom she served as a minister.

Is that not a bit of a blunder?

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, I have great respect for my hon. colleague, and I think we do some great work on the finance committee.

I will say that included in this motion is the fact that it is too bad that the Bloc teamed up with the costly Liberal-NDP coalition and was okay with slamming Quebeckers with a clean fuel standard, which is just carbon tax 2.0. This has no rebates to it and is going to be very impactful in a negative way to Quebeckers. Bloc members need to join with us. They need to ask for this to be cancelled. We need to axe the carbon tax so Quebeckers do not get higher costs on their gas, groceries and home heating either.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am a little perplexed. We have seen what Conservatives do when they are in power. In Alberta, they have destroyed the renewable energy sector, which is costing tens of thousands of jobs. This is quite strange when they are saying they actually believe in renewable energy. That same government in Alberta is also attacking the retirement security of Albertans, and we saw when the Harper government was in place, that the Harper regime actually was taking apart retirement security for Canadians. As such, the issue of the credibility of Conservatives comes up.

As the member knows, the Harper tax havens cost us, today, over $30 billion annually. These are tax havens that serve the ultrarich and very profitable corporations. I would like to ask my colleague, very simply, how he thinks he can be credible when this is the deplorable Harper record.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Madam Speaker, I would like to remind my colleague that it was just a few months ago that the great people of Alberta re-elected once again a strong majority Conservative government provincially, rejecting the out-of-control, out-of-touch, ideological, left NDP.

I will also remind him that in 2019, Bill 1, which the UCP ran on, was to axe the carbon tax. I will remind him once again that there was a major majority of Albertans who elected a strong Conservative government in 2019. Albertans will continue to reject this failed policy of carbon taxes and solve the issue of climate change through technology and not taxes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate my colleague on his eloquence, the quality of his speech and especially his strong and passionate defence of his province, Alberta. I thank my colleague.

We are here today because after eight years of this Liberal Prime Minister, the economic situation of Canadian and Quebec families is only getting worse. This morning, I saw on Twitter that there were record lineups at food banks. This happened at the Bouchée généreuse food bank in the Quebec City area. The journalist says he has never seen such long lineups before.

People are relying on food banks because they simply cannot afford groceries anymore, now that everything is more expensive. A Leger poll published today in Le Journal de Québec is quite worrisome, especially for young Quebeckers. More than half of young people are living paycheque to paycheque.

That means that they get paid $500 on Thursday and, by the following Wednesday, all that money is gone and the bank account is empty. They simply have to wait for the next paycheque and hope that nothing bad happens during the night, like their car getting towed. People just do not have the money. That is what living from paycheque to paycheque means.

Unfortunately, in Quebec, 51% of young people are living paycheque to paycheque. The number of workers living paycheque to paycheque increased by 26% in 2022. According to the poll, this is causing more stress. The higher cost of living is demoralizing those aged 40 and under, 62% of whom feel unable to cope with societal issues, an increase of 5% compared to 2022. They feel less confident in their ability to face challenges. The cost of rent is getting to be a real problem for them: 72% say that rent makes up too big a chunk of their budget. That is 8% more than the previous year. Those are huge numbers when we talk about something as important as housing.

I also want to quote a comment from that article. Kassendra Hachey, who is 28, said: “I live paycheque to paycheque. I work every other weekend on top of going to school. I have to work at least 24 hours to make ends meet.”

Unfortunately, that is the reality and situation for young Quebeckers today, after eight years of this Liberal government. With its inflationary spending, the Liberal government has made the situation intolerable. It is unacceptable for people to be experiencing a situation like this in 2023 in a G7 country like Canada.

We are at a turning point where real choices need to be made. Either we continue in the same direction where fewer and fewer people will be able to afford housing and fewer and fewer people will be able to afford food, or we choose to take action to bring down prices, mortgage payments and inflation.

That brings me to today's motion. It is a quick and easy solution that we can implement immediately and that will have a direct impact on the wallets of these young people, the wallets of every family across Canada and in Quebec. Our proposal is to cancel the carbon taxes, which are increasing the price of everything.

I can already hear the Bloc Québécois members say—as they have said over and over again today—that the carbon tax does not apply in Quebec and that the Conservatives are wrong. They used unparliamentary language. The leader of the Bloc Québécois used unparliamentary language throughout his speech this morning. Unfortunately, no one noticed. I am pointing it out because, unfortunately, the leader of the Bloc Québécois took the liberty of saying things he should not have said.

Any carbon tax imposed on Canadians still has an impact on Quebec. It is not complicated. This is because everything produced elsewhere in Canada is subject to the carbon tax. What is produced elsewhere in Canada is not necessarily available in Quebec. That food has to be transported all the way to Quebec. We know that a lot of food processing takes place in Ontario. It has to be transported by trucks, which are subject to the carbon tax.

Therefore, when food reaches grocery store shelves in Quebec, it obviously costs more because twice the carbon tax will have been imposed, along with the GST. In short, Quebeckers are suffering because of the carbon tax imposed by the federal government in the other provinces across the country.

In Quebec, the Bloc Québécois had a unique opportunity to ensure that there were no additional costs on carbon added to the price per litre of gas at the pump. The government brought in the clean fuel regulations through the back door. The House did not vote on these regulations because the Liberals adopted them behind closed doors. They did not think it made much sense so they did it in secret.

We saw them coming. We moved a motion on June 5 to say that it did not make sense to increase the price of gas per litre again when Canadians and Quebeckers do not have any money left in their pockets.

Anyone who lives in a big province like Quebec will know that a car is vital for getting around in the regions. Sometimes it takes two cars to get around, go to work, attend activities, do what needs to be done. We saw the Liberals coming.

We therefore moved a motion to repeal the carbon taxes that are indirectly affecting the cost of groceries and to ask the government to repeal the clean fuel regulations. These regulations, which the Liberals snuck in under the radar, were actually a second carbon tax. We wanted to prevent the price of gas from going up 20¢ a litre plus GST for Quebeckers. We told ourselves that anyone with any common sense who wants to defend the interests of Quebeckers would agree with this common-sense motion so that we could put money back in Quebeckers' pockets right away.

We were in for a surprise. The Bloc Québécois, which claims to be the great defender of the interests of Quebec and the regions of Quebec, did not support our motion. We were sure that the Bloc Québécois would support this motion.

The Liberals voted against it. The NDP voted against it, which is not surprising because that is how the costly NDP-Liberal coalition operates. The NDP followed the Liberals' lead. The Bloc Québécois voted against this motion, against repealing carbon tax 2.0, which would have stopped the government from raising the price of gas by 20¢ a litre in Quebec by 2030.

The Conservatives were the only ones to stand up, but unfortunately, there are not enough of us. Since July 1, Quebeckers have been included in the clean fuel regulations, which will make gas and groceries more expensive. Those are the facts. That is the truth.

Not only is that the truth, but we were flabbergasted by what we found out later. We wanted to understand why the Bloc Québécois would not vote in favour of our motion to cut carbon taxes. We started digging through Hansard to find some of the speeches made by members. We realized that the Bloc Québécois members love increasing the price of gas.

On May 26, 2020, the member for Repentigny said, “Here are some ideas of what we can do. We can increase the carbon tax. Yes, I said it.”

On February 7, 2023, she said, “We need to keep the fuel tax. We cannot give in and cancel it, which would be dangerous and get us nowhere. I never said it would be easy. It is not easy, but we have to do it.”

What is she saying we have to do? Take more money out of Quebeckers' pockets. That is what that means.

On June 1, 2023, the member for Repentigny also said, and I quote, “we are not in favour of cancelling the clean fuel regulations. In addition, we do not approve of the Conservative grandstanding on the important issue of inflation and the rising cost of living.”

Did I understand that correctly? Does the Bloc Québécois not see the rise in inflation and the cost of living? This is not grandstanding. It is reality. I think it is high time that the Bloc members opened their eyes and took a look at what is happening around them and what is happening in Quebec.

On June 1, 2023, the member for Jonquière said, and I quote, “In my opinion, saying that the carbon tax is responsible for today's inflation is a simplistic solution to a complex problem.”

It certainly is a simple solution that will put money back in Quebeckers' pockets right away.

Finally, I had to get to this: On February 7, 2023, the member for Longueuil—Saint-Hubert said, and I quote:

Madam Speaker, the carbon tax is a very good measure. However, it needs to be increased far more drastically than it has been so far.

I think...that the tax [should] be set at $200 per tonne now. Based on what we are hearing, it will be about $170 per tonne in 2030. That is much too late. It is two minutes past midnight right now. It is no longer one minute to midnight. We must do something drastic.

Going straight to taking money out of Quebeckers' pockets, that is the leftist ideology. That is the Bloc Québécois ideology.

That is why I hope the Bloc Québécois will do the right thing, show a little compassion and vote in favour of our motion to leave more money in the pockets of Quebeckers.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Madam Speaker, my colleague's argument is, in fact, doomed to fail. Quebec has had a cap-and-trade program for over a decade. Perhaps that is because, unlike the Conservatives here, Premier Legault's government genuinely believes in fighting climate change.

Quebec's food inflation is equivalent to Ontario's, and we are looking to implement real solutions for affordability. The Conservatives have no credibility when it comes to issues of affordability or climate change.

If the members opposite would like to support affordability, they should vote for Bill C-56, the affordable groceries and housing act, but they are playing games on the other side for bumper stickers and T-shirts. This is not serious policy. They need to talk to at least one expert about what they are talking about.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, what is not serious is that, after eight years, the Liberals are the main cause of this inflation because of their reckless spending. There is $60 billion in new spending in the last budget. What does that do? It injects more money into the economy. What does that do? It raises the cost of living. What does that do? It forces the Bank of Canada to say that interest rates have to be increased to slow the economy down because costs are increasing too quickly. What does that do? It increases the cost of mortgages. What does that do? It annihilates any hope young people may have of ever owning a house. That is what eight years of a Liberal government does.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Speaker, in 2012, in the Quebec National Assembly, the member for Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis's premier bragged about taking $200 million out of Quebeckers' pockets with the carbon exchange and said he was happy that Quebec was taking part in that carbon exchange. His colleague, Minister Pierre Arcand, even said that it was a very prudent and conservative approach.

However, the other day, she came into the House with a propane bill and criticized the Quebec tax, Quebec's share of the emissions trading system. I am certain that the member is smart enough to read a propane bill. She was dishonest with the House and is clearly uncomfortable with the Conservative position, having supported Jean Charest in the leadership race.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I think the member has just crossed a line. He just called a colleague something I will not repeat. You heard what he said, as did I. I would ask him to retract it and apologize.