House of Commons Hansard #309 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was access.

Topics

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:35 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.

Before I begin, I would like to recognize two very wonderful young men from my riding, both of whom received the Chief Scout's Award, one being Shawn Hodgkiss, who managed to collect over 1,000 pounds of food for the food bank, and another named Jared Roberts, who volunteered with The Loop and Our Street Church. I congratulate them. They are now in Hansard to reflect their incredible achievement.

At the end of the day, the Liberals have spoken so much about doing so many things, yet they have executed everything so poorly. We have had deficit after deficit. We could not even get a passport. The dental program has been a disaster as so few dentists have signed up in the Maritimes, for instance.

How can we have any confidence that the government will get this right?

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:35 p.m.

Liberal

Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON

Madam Speaker, I congratulate the member opposite for getting his constituents' names into Hansard today. That was well done.

I note that one of the constituents he mentioned is involved in a food program. I would remind the member that one of the things the government has accomplished and that, hopefully, everyone will support is a national school food program, because we absolutely agree that we need to make sure children are well fed in school so they can learn and have good lives.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:35 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to work with my hon. colleague across the way at the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. There are other folks on the committee and I really enjoy working with all of them, even across party lines, believe it or not.

The Conservatives are talking about voting against free contraception in this plan. There is no question that they are anti-choice. All the members have been listed as anti-choice, but they also voted against the school food program and pushed against the national child care program. The Conservative Party does not seem to be supportive of equity in this country.

Supporting this bill is so important. I am wondering if they are really serious about advancing the rights of women, or if maybe they just want women and gender-diverse people to stay in the dark ages.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:35 p.m.

Liberal

Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my NDP colleague's work on the status of women committee. She is a true champion for women.

I have appreciated in the debate this evening how she keeps bringing up the word “abortion”, because in this country, we have to worry about the rights of women in terms of their bodies, their right to choose, being taken away. We constantly see legislation proposed by the Conservatives that would restrict a woman's right to choose.

I stand with the member for Winnipeg Centre across the aisle on the right of women to choose for their own bodies.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Madam Speaker, Bill C-64 is a classic example of the legislation the Liberal government has brought before this Parliament. Once again, it has over-promised and under-delivered.

When the leader of the NDP sold his party's soul and coincidentally guaranteed that he would receive a pension for his efforts, many people thought he got too little for it. New Democrats did not even get 30 pieces of silver, as they betrayed their ideal and the Canadian people.

What has this betrayal cost Canadians? Inflation continues at record levels, fuelled by the carbon tax. Housing costs have doubled. Health care has vanished. Food bank use is at record levels. The immigration system is broken. Our military suffers from neglect, and foreign governments try to influence our elections. The Liberal response is to shrug. Canada has become a joke on the world stage.

What does the NDP receive for this blind support of the Prime Minister and his disastrous policies? It receives a promise to look at what it would take to establish a national pharmacare program. It is not even that, really.

Canadians thought a pharmacare plan would cover their drug costs. For the majority of the country, this was not a pressing issue. According to The Conference Board of Canada, 97% of Canadians are already eligible for some form of drug coverage, although the final report of the advisory council on the implementation of national pharmacare indicated that 20% of Canadians receive what could be termed inadequate coverage. In December of last year, a Leger poll indicated that only 18% of Canadians thought the establishment of a national pharmacare program was a health care priority.

It may come as a surprise to the Liberals and the NDP, but Canadians are worried about rising prices on everything, due in large part to the carbon tax. When people are worried about being able to feed their family, pay the rent or mortgage and put gas in their car so they can get to work, they do not spend much time thinking about a drug plan that does not cover the medications they need.

Canadians were hoping the Liberals could get it right. That turns out to have been a false hope. On this issue, as on many others, the Liberals are proving once again to have no idea what they are doing. The Liberal idea of pharmacare is restricted to just two types of medication. If one suffers from heart disease, one is out of luck. Heart disease is the second-leading cause of death in Canada, but medication for it would not be covered.

The Liberals' approach to pharmacare reminds me of their approach to Canadian liquid natural gas, or LNG. When the chancellor of Germany came to Canada looking to buy Canadian LNG, the Prime Minister told him there was no business case for such exports. That was a huge surprise to those companies looking to expand their markets.

Not only is there a business case for Canadian LNG, but there is a moral one as well. In the aftermath of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, countries are looking to replace Russian LNG and have turned to Canada, only to be told by the Canadian government that it does not want to sell Canadian LNG. The Prime Minister needs to learn that when there is a customer willing to buy the product, there is indeed a business case to support it. If Germany and Japan and Greece want to buy Canadian LNG, why would we not want to sell it to them?

A previous prime minister asked farmers, “Why should I sell your wheat?” This tells buyers there is not a business case to sell them the product they are asking for, while at the same time offering Canadians a pharmacare program they did not ask for, a plan so flawed it is unlikely to work.

This is the government that promised a firearms buyback program four years ago. So far, it has not managed to launch it, yet it wants Canadians to believe it has the skills necessary to design and implement a pharmacare program. Put simply, what is being offered is not pharmacare.

It is just another Liberal election gimmick, a promise they will campaign on in 2025, hoping that voters will not look at how many promises they have already broken. Anyone who has looked at the current state of drug coverage in Canada is concerned by this attempt to create additional bureaucracy. We already have some public drug plans; they do not seem to be as good as the private ones. Private drug insurance plans cover many more different medications than public plans do. The difference varies by province, but, on average, private coverage is 51% more extensive than its public counterpart is. In Quebec, the figure is 59.6%. Then there are the delays. Once a drug is approved by Health Canada, it takes an average of 226 days for a private insurer to approve the coverage. By contrast, it takes 732 days for approval by Health Canada, or a little over three times as long, for a public plan to add a drug to its list of covered treatments. These figures do not paint a rosy picture of the ability of public insurance to meet the Canadians' needs.

The marriage contract between the Liberals and the NDP required that the bill come before us last year. It did not. It took the Liberals two years to come up with the legislation, a bill that seems to have been put together without much thought, just to meet a deadline. Given how weak the bill is, I can only imagine what the first draft looked like. Maybe it was just one line, such as “We promise to look at establishing a pharmacare program in the hopes people will vote for us before we have to deliver.” Wait, is that not what Bill C-64 is?

After almost nine years of misgovernment, incompetence and mismanagement from the Liberal-NDP coalition, Canadians have lost all faith in the government's ability to discharge its responsibilities. What is the cost of this national pharmacare program? With two years to look into it, the Liberals either did not think to ask or are afraid to tell Canadians just how much more they want to raise taxes to pay for a plan that would benefit almost no one.

The bill is a public relations exercise by an utterly desperate government that is disliked by more and more Canadians every day. The inability of the Liberals to deliver on their promises is well known. Already, two provinces have opted out of this program. There is no indication that other provinces are interested. One would have thought that, in attempting to create a national program in an area of provincial jurisdiction, the Liberals would have consulted with the provinces. One might have expected that they would have hearings and consultations with stakeholders to see what exists now, what needs to be improved and the best way to do that. As far as I can tell, all they did was ask the NDP the minimum they could promise to keep the NDP's support.

Can the Minister of Health tell us what impact the bill will have on the 27 million Canadians who rely on privately administered workplace plans? If he is an honest man, he cannot, because he does not know. There was no consultation with the insurance industries when the bill was being drafted. Maybe he felt there was no need to check the facts. A promise had been made by the NDP, and the Liberals had to deliver. The needs and wishes for the Canadian people were not worthy of consideration. What is not worthy of consideration is this sad attempt at legislation; Canadians deserve much better than that.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I have heard a number of Conservatives say the same thing today. They keep saying that only one out of five Canadians wants the legislation; only one out of five Canadians wants pharmacare.

If one out of five Canadians is not good enough for Conservatives—

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, I want to call to the attention of the House that I do not think we have quorum.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

We are on autopilot. We do not need quorum.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Madam Speaker, debate on second reading of Bill C-64 took place tonight without quorum, which means that Bill C-64 will have been considered without the constitutional requirement of quorum. In the event that Bill C-64 receives royal assent, I trust that the fact—

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Before the member goes any further with his point of order, I will remind him that, on February 28, 2024, the House duly adopted an order prescribing that the Chair not receive any quorum calls after 6.30 p.m. today. Back in May 2022, the Speaker delivered a ruling as to the admissibility of the same provision from a similar motion, including the section dealing with quorum calls during extended seatings of the House. That ruling can be found in the debates of May 2, 2022, at pages 4577 and 4578. I would invite the member to read the ruling of the Speaker to find that this matter has already been settled.

It being 9.49 p.m., pursuant to an order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on the amendment.

If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I would request a recorded division.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Pursuant to Standing Order 45, the division stands deferred until Tuesday, May 7, at the expiry of time provided for Oral Questions.

The hon. deputy House leader is rising.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I understand that you have received proper notice from all recognized parties, and if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to see the clock at midnight.

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

I have received notice from all the recognized parties that they are in agreement with this request.

Is it agreed?

Second readingPharmacare ActGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

members

Agreed.

The House resumed from April 15 consideration of the motion.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

9:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Madam Speaker, the question before us is not just whether the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is a terrorist entity. Its actions over the past four decades are such that such a designation is logical. It is also long overdue, and that may be why the government has so far refused to act. Having ignored past pleas from Iranian experts and from other Canadians, the Liberals are too embarrassed to admit their mistake and do the right thing.

Following the protest in Iran, since the death of Jina Mahsa Amini, Conservatives have been calling on the Liberal government to support the Iranian people's fight for a free and democratic Iran by listing the IRGC as a terrorist entity under the Criminal Code of Canada. The Liberals refused.

The murder of Jina Mahsa Amini was just one on the long list of violations of human rights committed by the Iranian regime. The torture and death of Montrealer Zahra Kazemi, the execution of wrestler Navid Afkari, the imprisonment of lawyer Nasrin Sotoudeh and the shooting down of Ukrainian International Airlines flight 752, which killed dozens of Canadians, are examples of a regime that has no respect for its own citizens or for those of other countries.

The IRGC is a part of this regime and is instrumental to its continued existence. The IRGC has terrorized the people of Iran for decades and has openly declared support for other terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and Hamas, both listed in Canada as terrorist entities.

In June 2018, the government, including the Prime Minister, voted to list the IRGC as a terrorist entity. Despite the motion being approved by the House of Commons, and despite the IRGC downing flight 752 and killing Canadians, the government has yet to list this organization as a terrorist entity. To me, this is shameful. Does the government not understand that Canada needs to take a stand for what is right?

This government's level of hypocrisy has been so big that it does not walk its talk. It does not do what it needs to do. It makes promises, and it breaks them. This is how hypocritical the government has been on this very important issue of protecting Canadians and on making sure that Canada stands where it is right to be.

It was a little more than four years ago when the IRGC shot down flight 752, killing 176 people, including 55 Canadians and 30 permanent residents. This was a mass murder of Canadians. Countries have gone to war over less than that.

The families of those killed in that attack received sympathy from the Liberal government but nothing was done to bring the perpetrators to judgment. Nothing was done to stop them from operating in Canada however they see fit.

There is no doubt that Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. There is no doubt that the IRGC is one of the prime movers of Iranian terrorist policy and action. There is no reason for Canada to sit by and do nothing. There are an estimated 700 Iranian Agents operating in Canada. If one asks Iranian Canadians whether they feel comfortable speaking up against the regime, they will tell one stories of harassment for their extended families, not only back in Iran, but also here on Canadian soil.

Two years ago, CSIS confirmed that it was investigating what it saw as credible death threats against Canadians coming from inside Iran. In failing to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization, the government could be seen as not caring about the safety and security of Canadian citizens faced with this foreign threat. Certainly, the Liberal government has not sunk so low as to put the protection of terrorist organizations ahead of the safety of Canadians, has it?

Finance Canada officials testified in committee that more than $100 billion is illegally laundered in Canada each year. A leading report recognizes that Canada has become known for snow-washing, given the prominence of money laundering here. I should not need to remind the Liberals that combatting money laundering is a federal responsibility.

With his lackadaisical attitude, the Prime Minister has allowed criminal organizations, including the IRGC terrorist organization, to take advantage of soft-on-crime Liberal policies. Because of the Liberals' refusal to list the IRGC as a terrorist entity, we have no way of knowing how much of the Iranian regime's illegal money laundering in Canada goes undetected. Finance Canada officials have admitted that the government does not know whether the IRGC is fundraising for terrorist activities through the Canadian charitable sector. Simply put, the government is not doing its job.

Common-sense Conservatives have put forward real solutions to mitigate money laundering in Canada. Conservative Bill C-289 proposes changes to the Criminal Code to make it easier to catch and convict criminals laundering money in Canada. That would include IRGC agents. However, the NDP-Liberal coalition voted against the bill. The failure of the government to take terrorism and money laundering seriously allows for murderous entities like the IRGC to operate freely in Canada.

The government needs to wake up and finally list the IRGC as a terrorist organization. To do so would bring us in line with our allies, countries such as the United States, that understand the seriousness of this situation, even if Canada's government does not. Other countries understand that an organization that has involved itself in conflicts in Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq and Syria, should not be allowed to freely export violence and chaos.

The IRGC is open in its support for Hamas and Hezbollah, two organizations that have been recognized as terrorist entities. It does not make sense that the organization that funds the activities of Hamas and Hezbollah should not be called to account for its terrorist actions. What we are discussing here is an organization with a history of exporting violence and mayhem as it seeks to destabilize other countries in the region. Not only that, but this is an organization that is used as a tool of state-sponsored torture and oppression against its own citizens.

We have talked about this in the House before. The will of the House is to have the IRGC listed as a terrorist organization here in Canada. Apparently, though, despite the overwhelming evidence, that is not the will of the Liberal government. I do not understand the reasons for its inaction. It is not as if it believes that it should sponsor terrorism and terrorist organizations. If it does not believe the reports from CSIS or Finance Canada, it should say so. Canadians deserve an explanation for years of Liberal inaction.

The time for empty words and hollow announcements is over. It is time for the government to take action, support the Iranian people's struggles for freedom, do the right thing, and list the IRGC as a terrorist entity in Canada.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, I think the member just gave an excellent and powerful speech about the importance of listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization.

I know from talking to community members across Canada that there is wide support for the proposal. There are many different communities that see the negative impacts of IRGC violence: the Iranian community, the Jewish community, the Iraqi community, the Lebanese community and the Yemeni community. Communities in South America are also talking about how the Iranian regime is spreading its violence and collaborating with authoritarian regimes in South America.

We are going to vote on the motion on Wednesday. I think it is going to pass, based on what the opposition parties have said. We will see what the government does. At the end of the day, what we need is executive action or the passage of my bill, Bill C-350. It is not good enough to just pass a motion. After the motion is voted on, and if it passes, what should we expect the government to actually do? A motion like this one passed before, six years ago, and the government has done absolutely nothing in six years. We will pass the motion, I hope, on Wednesday, but we need to hold the government's feet to the fire because what really matters is whether something actually gets done.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

10 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan for the excellent question and his work on these issues and many other issues of human rights and security for all communities in Canada.

Based on the record of the government, I will not hold my breath. I cannot be optimistic about what it is going to do, because it has not been respecting the will of the House in terms of what it should act on. The other motion has been here for almost two years, and it still has not acted on it.

There is hope and a call for the government to act, to hear the will of Canadians through the House on what we know of the suffering and the complaints, as well as the will of the communities in Canada that are calling on the government to act on this issue to list IRGC as a terrorist organization and to make sure it follows the talk. That way, we will not end up with the same situation we have right now.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

10 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Madam Speaker, I would simply like my colleague to tell us what the next steps will be, what we can expect. More importantly, what action will the government take on this issue?

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

10 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Madam Speaker, the real expectation of the government is to do what governments do. Therefore, the government is going to have to put forward and implement the proper mechanism to make sure the will of the House and the will of Canadians are followed and listened to. It is only in the government's hands, because it is the government; it should be able to use the proper tools to make sure that things fall into place so Canadians are protected and the IRGC is listed as a terrorist organization. Then the rest of the work can be done.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, on the subject of the violence being caused by the regime in Tehran, I also want to use this opportunity to highlight the case of Toomaj Salehi. He is a rapper who has been given a death sentence in Iran because of his participation in protesting. It is really horrific to see the number of people who have been killed who had simply wanted to raise their voice and express their ideas and hopes for a different political future for their country. They are people of all ages, including many young people, who are being killed or facing death sentences. In this case, it is a very well-known rapper. I want to add my voice to the many who have called for his release.

Cases such as this underline how utterly barbaric and inhuman this regime is and how critical it is that the regime has to go. The first victims of the Iranian regime are the Iranian people, brave young people such as Toomaj, who have spoken out and are now facing this horrific state reprisal. Our thoughts are with him and his family, and we continue to call for his release. Does my colleague have a comment on that?

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

10:05 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Madam Speaker, we have had experience here with Montrealer Zahra Kazemi, the execution of wrestler Navid Afkari and the example of lawyer Nasrin Sotoudeh. There are so many examples of how far this regime is willing to go in order to punish the people who say no, those who are looking for freedom, for a better life for their own peers, inside and outside Iran. We know about the suffering and the fear; many do not even want to go back to visit with their parents or their families back home, and they fear that the regime has agents on Canadian soil and other international grounds to go after their own citizens who speak of freedom. The regime has no limits whatsoever regarding who they want to reach and how far they are willing to go. That is why the problem is at our doorstep right now; we must, for once, protect Canadians on Canadian soil. We need to protect our own people, our own house, because that is the minimum the government and all of us can do.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

May 6th, 2024 / 10:05 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, the member has spoken a lot about this tonight already. I know one of the key issues the Iranian community in Canada has been highlighting is foreign state-backed interference. The most pressing security threat to our country right now is foreign states interfering in Canadian affairs. Of course, the Iranian regime is a major player, and there are many other players we have discussed over recent months and years in the House. We have seen interference in our democracy through foreign state interference. What is much more pernicious are the threats of violence toward Canadians, especially targeted at members of diaspora communities.

A few years ago, the Iranian regime was responsible for shooting down a flight, PS752, with many Canadians on it. Many in our region of Edmonton were impacted by this in particular. One young man, whose wife was killed, spoke out about what happened, and he faced threats here in Canada. Imagine someone speaking out about their wife being murdered by this regime and then facing threats here in Canada. This underlines how critical it is that more action be taken on foreign state-backed interference to protect the Iranian community and many different communities facing attacks from beyond our shores.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseOrders of the Day

10:05 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Madam Speaker, it has been long overdue for the government to act on some serious issues such as this one. There is enough indication by CSIS, by Finance Canada and by our security forces that this is very serious, and it must be dealt with at the highest level of responsibility by the government. We will be waiting, after the vote, for the government to tell us the plan for how it can do this, how it will list the IRGC as a terrorist organization and what the mechanism is to be able to free up Canadians and to protect Canadians on this soil.