Randy White

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

I wish I had an hour.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

I will talk through you, Mr. Speaker. It is difficult enough talking about this over here, because it does not register in here.

We have to bite the bullet in this country and remove bad decision makers. The bad decision makers were in part responsible for a young lady losing her life by allowing a terrible criminal out on parole, and they walked away unscathed. They did not even get a reprimand on their job performance sheets. Nothing happened. Maybe one said: "I am sorry". A hell of a lot of good that is to Corrine, Ron, or Angela.

Some day either they are going to have to listen over here or they are going to be replaced. The time is coming because these Liberals are not listening to a major groundswell in this country.

Since I only have a minute, I am going to give you one recommendation from CAVEAT, Canadians Against Violence Everywhere Advocating its Termination. "Allow discipline of parole board members short of termination to be carried out by the chairman of the National Parole Board, a procedure akin to the Federal Inquiries Act, allowing for private or public inquiries. A mandate for a maximum five-year term of appointment for parole board members". They are not going to listen.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, Motion No. 19 concerns a difference of opinion about whether or not there should be or may be a mandatory review of parole board decisions if someone who is out on parole commits a crime.

Our belief is that there should be a mandatory review of parole board decisions when it makes errors. I will give some examples. I have mentioned it twice but I have to mention the Wayne Perkin case again because it is so close to the real problem. This fellow went into a home, coerced an individual in my community into her garden shed, beat her over the head with a hammer, raped her, taped her hands behind her back, injected her with cocaine and left her for dead. He got six years, which is light, was put out on parole and while on parole murdered Angela Richards.

I always wondered in that particular case as I attended the sentencing hearing where the parole board was. What responsibility and what accountability are on the parole board for the absolutely disastrous error it made? Had Perkin not got out on parole the first time for such a terrible crime, Angela Richards would be alive today. I have talked with Corrine and Ron about it, Angela's sister and brother-in-law. That is one of the significant questions they have.

Why is the parole board that made this terrible decision going on with more decisions? Why is it not held accountable? Why was it not brought in to listen to the whole court case? Surely we need to have better answers.

This is what the motion is talking about. It wants a mandatory review of its decisions. I am for the termination of employment of those people when they make such drastic decisions. What we are

asking for seems realistic. It seems the Liberal government should agree that there be a mandatory review.

Let us talk a bit about parole for a moment. Most of us are aware that we have a legal system and not a justice system in Canada. It is fraught with lawyers who have made it so convoluted, so difficult to understand and so complex that the average person has lost his or her way throughout the system.

Since 1975, 240 murders have been committed by parolees. They say 70 per cent of those on full parole are successful, but it is the 30 per cent who are the problem.

Not too long ago I received a call from a parole board member who was upset at my making these kinds of comments. He said that in his region there was an 87 per cent success rate. I said: "While that is nice, I wonder if the victims take much consolation in the 13 per cent failure rate". We cannot tell Corrine and Ron that everything should be a bit better for them because we have an 87 per cent success rate. They are a part of the 13 per cent failure rate, and that is what we have to concentrate on.

In 1977, 85 per cent of parole board members had experience in the justice system; in 1988, just 10 years later, 53 per cent. It went down. Why did it go down? It was because that party and the other party from Jurassic Park started appointing their friends to parole board positions. How do I know? In 1993, 16 of 22 full or part time members were either defeated or failed politicians.

What kind of decisions do we get from them? They are their friends. They are party hacks. They collected money for your campaigns. The cost of doing that business results in people like Angela Richards being stabbed 22 times and murdered unnecessarily. This is not much consolation for Corrine and Ron, or Mrs. Richards.

Do we have any solutions? What do we do when they let these people out and they ruin the lives of thousands of people? There is no question that parole board members need more training. If the Liberals are going to run this country by a majority and they are going to put all their friends into these important jobs, then they should at least have the courtesy to the rest of us to train them.

I was in a parole board hearing not too long ago and received some information from an administrator who said that the psychologists' reports, which are relied upon for decisions by parole boards, are going to be given to them in a précis. That is just a short capsulation by a civil servant who makes a judgment as to what a psychologist says on five or six pages.

I can say that when people like Wayne Perkin go up before a parole board I would really like them to have a full psychologist's assessment and not a précis. Listen to what we are saying. The safety of the public is the number one concern.

While the heads are down and they are all quiet over there I cannot understand why they would oppose a mandatory review. Just exactly what is wrong with a mandatory review of a parole board and its members for making bad decisions?

It is understandable why we stand here in frustration and say this is absolute common sense. What is the problem? Who are you not listening to?

I would like to give some recommendations from another group.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

Yes, it is unfortunate, we even get laughs at this kind of stuff here.

Let us take the matter away from the political sphere for a moment. Let us see what CAVEAT has to say about this, Canadians Against Violence Everywhere Advocating its Termination. Its members met and talked about this. In fact they have quite an interesting document from recent meetings which people from right across the country attended.

One such group that met with CAVEAT is the Community Standards and Child Exploitation Committee. Its chairs included people like Justice John McGarry, Ontario Court of Justice, General Division; the London police were represented; the London family court; the president of a group against pornography and so on.

What did these groups say about it? Is it just the Reform Party talking here? They state: "We recommend the creation of a national child abuse registry. Such a registry would work in the same way as bonding at a financial institution. In order to work with children in a position of trust, such as teacher or babysitter, the onus is upon the prospective employee to produce an updated recent certificate from the registry to prove that the individual has no previous convictions for sexual offences against children. We acknowledge that those who sexually offend against children are highly likely to recidivate. Accordingly we recommend that if such offenders are to be released in the community, measures be undertaken to inform the community of the offender's release".

It is not just the Reform Party. This is across the country. If we are to err in areas of criminality we must err on the side of caution. We must take the route of protecting our young at all costs. We cannot afford to debate whether or not such things are as important as the other. What we must do is protect our young.

Therefore, can any Liberal in this House stand up and say that a national registry for sex offenders against children and others is not necessary for everybody? I keep hearing that we have one. CPIC has one. Members opposite do not understand. That is a police registry system. People do not have access to it. We must know who are the child offenders and who perpetrates these offences. We must know who they are, where they are and what their MOs are. It is critical.

To listen to rhetoric like I just heard is just so Liberal. I cannot think of anything else. They got us into this mess and we are still in the mess. Notwithstanding CAVEAT, Victims of Violence, Citizens Against Violence Everywhere, the Melanie Carpenter Society and on and on, they do not listen.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

That is right. My colleague from Calgary says that is something the government should be doing. It is opposing a motion that says exactly what so many people are trying to do. They want sex offenders on some form of registry. They want the registry to be available to everyone. They want to know who is living next door. It does not much matter if only the police know about it.

I do not have access to CPIC. It is a police system. If I have children in my home I want to know who is living next door, if they are serious sexual offenders. Today in this country we are not permitted to know that, courtesy of this government.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

Madam Speaker, I will speak to Motion No. 16.

It is interesting that my colleague from the Liberal Party spoke about ruling one of the motions out of order for lack of funds. This is the government in the process of spending $6 billion on infrastructure. This is the government which allows convicts, regardless of their conviction, to pick up old age security, the Canada pension plan and GST rebates. The government wants to move the motion out of order because it calls for an expenditure of funds. That is laughable.

On a registry of sex offenders, the amending motion of my friend from Wild Rose is right. I would have the registry circulated throughout the country to all individuals, not just enforcement officers. It is about time we did that.

I know Germaine is watching this. She is from my riding. If Germaine were in the House she would likely not hold back on a lot of the comments she has. Germaine was involved with a victim of Alan Winter. He molested, as far as we can find out in my riding thus far, in excess of 30 children over a number of years. They were young kids. He undertook the most heinous activities with these kids, which I shall not describe in the House.

What do we do with Alan Winter? After Germaine took him to court a number of years ago we put him in prison and labelled him a dangerous offender. That means he should stay in prison for quite a long time. Along came more victims of Alan we did not know about and they tried to press charges, only to find out that after five years Alan Winter was let out unbeknownst to anybody. We also found out Alan Winter was on unescorted passes while labelled a

dangerous offender. No one knew the predator was crawling through the streets of our communities.

Where did he go? Good old Alan, courtesy of Canada, went to Britain. Interestingly enough a deal was made and he has dual citizenship and can return to Canada. There is no registry. Very few people know what he looks like. We have pictures of him. They are up on my office wall and they may well go in my householder.

I want to read a letter from John Denham, an MP of Southampton, England, about this case:

I am grateful for the assistance which you have given in providing details of the parole conditions attached to the release of Mr. Alan Winter.

As you may know, we in Southampton recently became aware that Mr. Winter was living in our community. People in Southampton were appalled to learn that he has served only a small part of a lengthy sentence imposed for appalling acts against children. They were equally concerned to learn that those agencies responsible for child protection had no knowledge of his presence in this city.

The information which you have provided confirms that Mr. Winter was released from prison on condition that he leave Canada and that he would be in prison once again if he returned to your country.

That is actually not the case. He is a citizen of both countries and can return to Canada. The letter continues:

I will of course be raising this matter with the British government's home, foreign and commonwealth offices. I will be asking them to make strong representation to the Canadian government to ensure that a situation like this can never arise again and that there is a clear agreement between two countries on the international application of parole conditions.

I would be grateful if you could make every effort to raise my concerns and those of my constituents in the Canadian Parliament. I believe that if Mr. Winter was not fit to be released into Canadian society he was not fit for release into my country either and I hope that you can express this view in the appropriate way.

No one in this country knows really what he looks like. There is no registry. This guy is filthy scum. He has ruined the lives of countless young men and women. Today they are around the age of 40. I have met with six of them in a room. Their lives are ruined. There is not even a registry on this guy.

Some people are doing some things. Sandra Cunningham looks after the tri-city child care guide. I have spoken with Sandra many times. She has taken it on herself to put in this child care guide the pictures and MOs of these predators, these pedophiles. She is doing it at her own cost, her own risk.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

They would rather spend time talking about separation.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

This government has to understand that this parole system works for some, but what we are trying to tell this government is if an individual is incarcerated and if they are allowed out under escort or unescorted and if they commit another crime while they are out, they are obviously not the best apple in the barrel. They should be brought in, their parole should be revoked, and they should be in to the end of their sentence, obviously.

There is good old Karel Kral, again in my community. Is this a case of "I have all these isolated incidents", or is this just common around the country? After speaking here last night I received calls, letters and faxes from Ontario people saying that the same thing was happening in their communities.

Let us talk about Karel Kral in my town. Good old Karel, up on cocaine, has been in and out of prison for about 14 years on different occasions. Karel was hyped up on cocaine one night not too long ago and attacked Joan in Langley, British Columbia. He was charged with sexual assault with a weapon and convicted. Joan is 65 years old. He used a needle with cocaine as the weapon. This is a common weapon to use now, because if the victim is injected with cocaine and the criminal is on cocaine it might be a good excuse for the damage being done.

Karel has been out on parole time and time again: out, back in, out, back in. Joan would not have been assaulted had somebody said: "Wait, there is a message here. This guy is a bad apple. His paroles are being revoked. He is in and out, in and out. Stop it. Put him in for a long term, give him a heavier term or call him a dangerous offender".

In the name of God, we have to listen to reason. The government is listening to the very few Liberals in cabinet who want to push a Liberal agenda. How much more can we say on behalf of victims?

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 21st, 1995]

Madam Speaker, I just heard that the member of the Liberal Party opposite is opposing Motion No. 5 which deals with the revocation of parole.

Having been in many parole hearings and listened to all the cases I have listened to, I wonder why this government would not be prepared to back this. Let us say a prisoner is in for a crime that was undertaken while on drugs or a crime related to drugs. This individual gets out of an institution today and is caught in another facility while on parole using drugs. His parole is revoked. He comes back in and they say he has to serve more time. Today that inmate is entitled to again go to a parole board and get out and do his thing in the community.

We are saying that if a person is incarcerated in this country for a crime and gets out and does something such that parole is revoked, the person should serve the full term. That to me makes obvious common sense. If we are letting somebody out of prison today and

he is going to go out and commit another crime, he obviously has not got the message.

As examples I will give a couple of instances where I have been in parole hearings. One individual in this country was incarcerated in excess of two years for very serious fraud crimes. This individual was allowed to go out under UTA, unescorted pass, and he was found to be in the middle of a fraudulent exercise, milking someone out there out of their money. What did the parole board do? They brought him in and told him: "That is not a good thing. You have taken anger management courses in here. You have taken courses and by now you should know that is not the right thing, so we will leave you locked up again".

What happens? He says "Well, I guess I have not learned the lesson, so I am going to stay in here, but I will be back here to apply to get out again". This is obviously a serious problem. The fact is the individual has not learned his lesson, and that individual should be reincarcerated for the full term of his sentence.

Now to some more serious problems. I have been involved with several cases. I am not a lawyer. I am an average guy who tries to help out a lot of victims in an area where I have seven federal institutions around my riding. I have seen people incarcerated for rape. I spoke about this last night. Wayne Perkin is an individual who got a young lady from Aldergrove, British Columbia, coerced her into her garden shed, beat her over the head with a hammer, taped her hands behind her back, injected her with cocaine and raped her. In this country he gets all of six years for this heinous crime. This young lady will never be the same again. He gets six years for that, and is eligible for parole after two years.

What do they do? They let him out at around three years. He goes right back at it again and gets another unsuspecting victim, injects her with cocaine, but this time he does not just beat her over the head with a hammer, he stabs her 20 times and kills her. The family and the family's friends will never again be the same.

The system in this country does not work. For a Liberal government that brought a lot of this mess upon us to stand here and oppose Motion No. 5 is despicable. There are too many victims out there. We do not have to talk about Clifford Olson or this Bernardo fellow. There are all kinds of them across this country, like those three guys who did their thing in McDonald's in Sydney, Nova Scotia. Those are the ones who get national attention, but there are all kinds of them.

I could talk about Jose Mendoza. I have talked about him more than enough in this place. That little creep had 12 criminal convictions in my community, including what they call sexual assault but I call rape. He is escorted out of the country back to El Salvador at our cost so we are rid of him, right? No. He says: "I like the Canadian penal system, the Canadian criminal justice system; it treats me pretty good". He got out early too, by the way, on parole.

He comes back in illegally, past Guatemala, Mexico, the United States, shows up at our door and says: "Now I am a refugee, I am not an immigrant, so take me back". Just before that happened he raped another woman, an 18-year old in my community.

[Corrections And Conditional Release Act, September 20th, 1995]

That is right, it is not the Liberal way. Bonnie Lucas in my riding found that out when her estranged husband went to her house, burned it down while they were sleeping, and she just got her two kids and herself out. The guy goes into the pen. She asks the parole board to tell her where he is, if it ever lets him out, in case he comes back, and it will not do it. Once again the victim is ignored in favour of the criminal. It is wrong, wrong, wrong. Wake up over there and do something about it.