Mr. Speaker, I have just returned from an eight day trip to the east coast with the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. I learned an awful lot on the trip and I hope some of it stuck in my head so that I can speak with some degree of confidence in this debate.
The negative effect of foreign overfishing on the Grand Banks and the nose and tail of the Flemish Cap is an extremely serious problem. There is no doubt about that. It reflects to some degree the problems that resource communities across Canada are having.
We have problems on the west coast for some of the same reasons but not necessarily all of them. There are problems with resource based communities right across Canada, whether it be fishing, logging, mining or agriculture. That has to be noted and taken care of. Tonight the debate is on the overfishing of the Grand Banks.
The first item I want to speak to is the rationale for the debate. This is a serious matter that requires immediate attention and consideration by the House of Commons. I am confident that the fishery committee will be addressing it very quickly and putting a report forward to the minister. It is a serious problem that requires some degree of urgency.
There is a tremendous amount of people out of work on the east coast because of the collapse of the cod fishery and other ground fish resources. In excess of 30,000 people are affected. Up to 200 plants that were at one time working to the fullest extent are no longer employing people other than on a very part time basis.
There are a number of problems that Canada has put forward to NAFO, the Northwest Atlantic Fishing Organization. It is supposed to control these kinds of issues and problems. Canada's concerns at NAFO do not seem to be getting the attention they should be.
A number of resolutions were put forward including mesh size, directed fisheries for species at risk which is a huge problem, overfishing, misreporting as well as a number of other issues. What we were told on the east coast is that the stocks are diminishing at an extremely alarming rate. Communities are collapsing. We were even told that the northern cod and even the Atlantic salmon were endangered. The whole stock is in danger of totally disappearing. That is simply not acceptable. Something has to be done and it has to be done as quickly as possible.
NAFO is supposed to act as a forum for its members regarding international co-operation in science, conservation and management in the northwest Atlantic. NAFO was founded back in 1978 following the extension of Canada's jurisdiction to the 200 mile limit which exists today. That is known as the economic zone and it extends to the 200 mile limit.
Outside of that zone is where the nose and tail of the Flemish Cap exists which is part of the Grand Banks. This is where a lot of the problems lie when we get into the situation with straddling stocks that have no boundaries and move back and forth. These stocks have been heavily overfished. The members of NAFO were supposed to manage that with direction while following rules and regulations to make sure these stocks were not endangered. That is just not happening.
There are some 17 or 18 nations that right now belong to NAFO, including Canada, the U.S.A., Denmark on behalf of the Faroe Islands, Greenland, Russia and a number of others. They are supposed to provide for conservation and management of a number of stocks.
There are two categories of NAFO stocks: straddling and discrete. Straddling stocks are those found both inside Canada's 200 mile limit and outside on the high seas. Those stocks managed by NAFO are the 3LMNO American plaice, the yellowtail flounder, 3LMNO cod, 3NO witch flounder, 3M redfish and 3M shrimp.
NAFO is headquartered in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. Canada pays approximately half the annual operating costs of NAFO and presumably should have a good deal of input into the operation and an amount of respect.
The fisheries commission is responsible for making decisions on management and conservation on the high seas outside the 200 miles of straddling and Flemish Cap stocks. It is also made up of member nations and decisions are made by consensus or by majority votes.
Decisions of NAFO are subject to objection within 60 days by any member nation. In this case an objecting member nation would not be bound by the decision it objected to. That seems to be the Achilles heel of NAFO. Certain quotas are supposed to be met. If a member nation thinks it should be able to catch more of a particular species it can object and it is not bound by any decision. The adherence of NAFO members to its own decisions is voluntary. NAFO does not possess any power to impose penalties, financial or otherwise, to member nations contravening NAFO decisions. International pressure is the only tool.
To explain a little more about the exclusive economic zone and the area outside that, which is the area under concern, the nose and tail and Flemish Cap, the EEZ is the 200 mile limit that Canada imposes and controls the management of the fisheries through DFO. To some degree it is reasonably effective.
We visited a DFO site in Halifax that has an aircraft that flies out there. I believe there is also one based in St. John's that has a significant and impressive capability of monitoring and looking at what is going on in that 200 mile zone that Canada has control over. It can spot ships in the dark. It can fly over them and take real-time photographs and images and see what is on the deck, what is being processed, and what is actually being done. It is very impressive and relatively effective.
The problem is the area outside the 200 mile limit, or the EEZ, where the straddling stocks live. The situation is that the continental shelf of Canada extends out to about 325 miles, and that is the nose and tail of the Grand Banks and the Flemish Cap.
Canada has jurisdiction over the actual bottom of the ocean and the critters that inhabit the bottom of the ocean, the crustaceans. However we have no control over the actual water column which is the ocean above that area outside the 200 mile limit and out to the edge of the continental shelf, another 125 or so miles, where basically the bulk of the species live. Therein lies the problem. We must get a handle on what is going on out there and get some better control.
We had hearings with the committee in a number of communities on the east coast, including Halifax, St. John's, Gaspé, Rimouski and Sydney. The theme of most of the presentations was fairly consistent. The position regarding NAFO in St. John's was to pull out unless it can become effective.
Trevor Taylor, who is a member of the legislature in Newfoundland, said the province has never recovered from the northern cod collapse. He called for action. He said that we have jurisdiction over sedentary stocks and must have water column and migratory species jurisdiction. He added that Canada must take on a management role. He concluded by saying that we should cull seals.
Tim Morgan, who represented Newfoundland boat owners, said the federal government cannot do the job. He wanted provincial control. He said that NAFO had failed and Canada was viewed as weak by the economic union. He also suggested closing ports.
I give the minister credit. He did take a small first step by at least flexing Canada's muscles. He said we were fed up because things were not going the way they should. He added that we would not put up with it forever. The stocks are threatened and if they are not managed properly we will all lose out. However there are solutions.
The Fisheries Association of Newfoundland and Labrador claimed that: rules were broken by NAFO members and names were not made public; reports that NAFO put out were incomplete and not timely; and, observers on NAFO ships were from the nation that the ship belonged to, therefore if it was a Spanish vessel it had a Spanish observer, if it was a Russian ship it had a Russian observer.
That is not in the best interest of the resource to have the fox in charge of the hen house. These people live on these ships, they work with the crews and they go back to their home country when it is all said and done. It is extremely hard to believe that they can always give realistic and objective observations.
I have some comments regarding the Department of Foreign Affairs representing Canada at NAFO. The Department of Foreign Affairs sits in on most NAFO meetings. There is some concern as to whether the fisheries are being managed by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans or the Minister of Foreign Affairs. There are some real concerns there. It is something we need to get to the bottom of.
Other comments were to the effect that NAFO had no force and no teeth.
Gus Etchegary, who is a very well-respected and well-known fishery critic in Newfoundland, claimed that there were a number of problems with Spanish pair fishing vessels. That is when there is a vessel here and a vessel there and they both drag a trawl in between. They catch everything. They caught more than the whole Atlantic plaice quota in their bycatch. How can we manage a fishery with those kinds of things going on? He said that DFO was run politically and it cannot be like that. It just goes on and on.
John Efford was frustrated because no one listens. He felt that management of DFO was dismal. A member of the legislature in Newfoundland and Labrador said that this was not a new problem. He added that NAFO did not work and unilateral action was required.
The comments went on and on. They very clearly stated that there was a huge problem there and that somehow we would have to get a handle on.
I have mentioned that there appears to be some intervention by the Department of Foreign Affairs. It is something that we need to get a handle on, whether DFO is actually managing the fisheries.
I will touch on this very quickly. There are some problems on the west coast which are not totally similar. There is a hake fishery off the west coast of Vancouver Island that has foreign factory vessels processing a lot of that hake. That is something that the minister needs to take a real hard look at. Our fish should be processed in Canadian plants. It is similar to the problem in Newfoundland and Labrador where there is not enough fish. The fish are out there on the west coast at times but they are not all being processed by Canadians. That is not acceptable.
Are there solutions? There may be some out there. We did have some thoughts on potential solutions. The minister should at least consider some of these things which are: fix NAFO; work within the system with political pressure and submissions of non-compliance to member nations overfishing; and, establish a reasonable timeframe to resolve issues. Should this not work then possibly Canada should consider leaving NAFO.
One suggestion that came out very strongly in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador was that Canada should implement a custodial management regime whereby Canada would be responsible to conduct the science, set the TAC and implement and administer conservation-based management systems including monitoring and enforcement on the area outside of our EEZ, the nose and tail of the Grand Banks and the Flemish Cap.
This would put in place a comparable resource management regime for all transboundary stocks. This would not mean that we would take anything away from those who are already fishing. Rather, we would set quotas and manage those quotas in a way that is done properly, where the endangered stocks are monitored and not overfished.
Another solution is to extend jurisdiction whereby Canada would unilaterally move our EEZ to the edge of the continental shelf or further to include the Flemish Cap. This would mean Canada could take ownership of and not just manage the stocks. This would probably be very difficult to do. We do not believe it would receive a great deal of support outside Canada, but it is certainly an option when all else fails.
The realistic approach is probably to start by working strongly within NAFO to change it, to make it more effective and to put some teeth into it. If we are unsuccessful when we move toward custodial management the unilateral extension is a potential. There are solutions out there. The will is there. The minister will have to be very strong and take some firm steps to deal with these problems.
My party and I firmly believe that those most affected by the fisheries must be given more control over management. A resource in an ocean cannot be managed, whether it is on the west coast or the east coast, when the management regime is in the middle of Canada thousands of miles from any fish. It does not make sense. That is a huge problem. We have to get management closer to the resource with more onsite people. There are excellent people in the DFO, but we have some problems in terms of how we manage it. Getting closer to the resources is the best way to do it.
Local communities should have a greater voice in the management and preservation of Canada's fish stocks. We heard from communities such as Trepassey in Newfoundland and Labrador that is basically on its knees. There are no fish to process. Newfoundland survived on fishing for almost 400 years. It is not acceptable the population of an area does not have more input and control over a resource that is critical to its livelihood and well-being.
Canadian fleets should have priority over foreign vessels. Charity begins at home. I do not think there is anything wrong in saying that. It became very clear to me over the last week or so of travelling with the committee that it was very functional. I enjoyed working with those people. When people who work together have good relationships it tends to develop respect for one another and one another's opinions, which was extremely important for the effectiveness of the fisheries committee.
I give a great deal of credit to the chairman who is present in the House. I look forward to working with him to resolve some of these issues in a way that will be successful for the east and west coasts which certainly have problems.
There is a commonality, a common thread across Canada in whatever the resource industry may be. We are talking about fishing tonight, but when we look at the softwood lumber situation in British Columbia with 20,000 people unemployed it is a huge problem. It is just as big a problem in Newfoundland with the fishery.
In closing I thank the member from Newfoundland for raising this issue for debate tonight. It is very timely and very important. I urge the minister to deal with it as quickly and expeditiously as possible.
