House of Commons photo

Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was fisheries.

Last in Parliament November 2005, as Liberal MP for Victoria (B.C.)

Won his last election, in 2004, with 35% of the vote.

Statements in the House

National Revenue May 11th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately I do not have articles 1402 and 2103:4 or the other paragraph the hon. member has mentioned.

If members of the Reform Party or other members of the opposition wish to be so specific in their questions, they should give ministers the courtesy of at least providing us with either the text of the documents they are referring to or advance warning so that we can prepare for questions in the House.

Unfortunately I cannot answer that question. I revert to my previous statement that I will look into the matter to see whether we are in full compliance, as we believe we are, with both the NAFTA and the free trade agreement.

National Revenue May 11th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I have answered the question in general terms previously. The objective of this program is to give Canadian companies an opportunity to bid for overseas contracts and thus make it attractive for their Canadian employees to go overseas and take part in that work.

It is not a program to assist American or other companies to do the same thing overseas. The legislation is clear in this regard. Indeed, as I mentioned before, I am limited in my opportunity to apply the law.

With respect to the NAFTA and the FTA provisions, I am informed that we are within the spirit of the NAFTA and the FTA. However I will again check the matter at the request of the hon. member.

National Revenue May 6th, 1994

On the other side I have been urged to ignore the law. I find that to be a significant difference between our two parties.

National Revenue May 6th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I will certainly accept the suggestion of the hon. member to re-examine the case. As I explained in my response to the first question, I understand this is in fact something that is beyond my powers because the law is written in a certain way.

As members of the House know, the Minister of National Revenue is very circumscribed in what he can do by laws made by Parliament.

I do feel, however, that it does show a substantive difference between the attitude of the two parties, ours and theirs. On this side we definitely believe that laws should be followed by ministers as well as by other people.

National Revenue May 6th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, as I understand the law that would be beyond my powers.

Income Tax Act May 5th, 1994

moved that Bill C-27, an act to amend the Income Tax Act, the Income Tax Application Rules, the Canada Pension Plan, the Canada Business Corporations Act, the Excise Tax Act, the Unemployment Insurance Act and certain related acts, be read the first time and printed.

(Motion deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Railway Safety Act May 4th, 1994

moved that the bill be read the third time and passed.

Supply May 3rd, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I agree that what we want and what Canadians want are jobs. I agree with the hon. member-and I congratulate him on his remarks-that the problem we are facing today is job shortage combined with difficulties starting up new businesses. I agree that this makes for a very difficult situation.

I must add that it is very difficult for a government with a $500 billion plus debt to ignore the national debt, to ignore the deficit and to create jobs to help businesses. Not all programs are frozen. There is the unemployment insurance program and other programs he mentioned. That is why it is very important to get a report on this, a report that the Minister of Human Resources Development and member for Winnipeg-South Centre is presently working on. We must try and change the system and help the unemployed find work instead of providing assistance directly to them in the form of money.

I know that there will be differences of opinion in this House between parties, between members from either side of this House. Differences could even be expressed between members from the same party. I must say however that, like the hon. member who just spoke, I am convinced there is a need to provide jobs for Canadians who are presently out of work.

The only thing I can say to finish answering his question is that I wish I could come before this House and announce that we have money to do this or that or a new program to implement. I really wish I could. Unfortunately, there is this debt, this absolutely enormous debt we have, and a deficit which is much too high. Given this burden we have inherited from the previous government, this burden which has become huge, especially with this problem, we cannot do all we would want to do. What we are trying to do is to plan structural changes such as those the Minister of Human Resources Development will submit to this House in the coming months and try to spend the money available as wisely and efficiently as possible.

I do hope the hon. minister and myself, as well as other hon. members and ministers, will have the chance to discuss the best way to use what little money we can devote to this task.

Supply May 3rd, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for the series of questions which he has asked.

He talked first of the replacement for the goods and services tax, the GST. On that I think we are generally aware in this House that the committee, members of the Reform Party, members of the Bloc and members of the government party are at the present time sequestered writing a report and suggesting alternatives to the GST. To suggest whether the tax that they might be writing, of which indeed I do not know what they may be writing, would affect food or some other product not currently taxed is difficult, indeed impossible for me to answer directly as I am sure the hon. member recognizes.

He talked correctly of the apprehensiveness of people when faced with a new tax. I suggest to the hon. member that in fact was very much the theme of what I said this afternoon. People want to have certainty with the tax system as far as it is possible as well as having improvements here and there.

This is why I stressed that this incremental approach to improving the tax system is probably the best way because it reduces apprehension. You are able to deal with one section here, another section there. You are not saying: "Look, we are throwing the whole tax system out the window and starting afresh". That would be a point where perhaps the apprehension which the hon. member has correctly identified would come closer to panic.

That is why I believe it is very important in a resolution such as this to make sure that we recognize the importance of that incremental approach. That is why I listed all those bills that have been brought before this House, plus the reference to the finance committee of the GST. All that work has been going on in the last four months by members of Parliament of all parties as they discuss these bills to show Canadians that we are trying to improve the tax system, trying to get better results and more efficiency.

I think his concern over apprehension of it by taxpayers is something which I completely share and was indeed very fundamental in what I said this afternoon.

He also mentioned startup costs, if I may just continue on that. Once again that is a very important consideration. A lot of time and effort is invested in any tax system. There were many millions of person hours spent studying it, working on it, preparing it. Tens of hundreds of thousands, probably millions of person hours were devoted over the last three or four weeks as people in Canada prepared their tax returns.

It is important for governments not to get carried away by bland ideas and great principles and ignore the practicality of making changes to the tax system.

I thank the hon. member for his questions.

Supply May 3rd, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak to hon. members on a subject that is close if not always dear to the hearts of Canadians.

Taxes mean jobs for the unemployed, hospital beds for the sick, better schools for our children. They affect the quality of life of our seniors and the protection and support of Canadians in need.

They affect modern transportation and communication systems, investment and competition. They concern workers' compensation, pension plans, health and safety, environmental and labour standards.

Taxation gives governments the resources needed to provide Canadians with the social and economic programs that they need and demand. Ultimately, the discussion of taxation is a discussion about our prosperity as a society.

Taxation has traditionally been a contract between citizens and governments to deliver these programs in exchange for the moneys that Canadians give as a result of their hard work and based on their financial ability.

In recent years we have seen the viability of that contract renegotiated as reflected in the phenomenon of the underground economy and also in smuggling. Faith in that contract and the trust that is needed to maintain it will dissolve unless governments give Canadians the best possible value for their tax dollars.

The government is determined to act in such way that Canadians again trust their government. Without that trust, we will be unable to provide the necessary programs, to reduce the deficit and eventually to lower the tax burden of Canadians.

We must let the public know what is going on, what the choices are, and why we are making those choices.

As revenue minister my commitment is to ensure at all times the integrity of our voluntary tax system. I recognize public confidence in our tax system is something that we have to earn. I and all members of the Department of National Revenue work every day to do just that.

We are working to reduce the burden of compliance, to ensure Canadians get real value from the revenue administration, and to guarantee fairness throughout the tax system.

Revenue Canada has come a long way in its efforts to improve administration.

We believe that we must be attentive to the needs of individuals and companies. We must adapt to a constantly changing society and to the business community.

We must be fair and equitable and I believe we are. We must be transparent and we are. We must listen to Canadians and we do.

Specifically we have a problem resolution program to help find solutions for taxpayers with difficulties. We have a voluntary disclosure policy for those with special problems, particularly problems of non-compliance. We have a declaration of taxpayers' rights to ensure equity in the system.

We listen on an ongoing basis and we consult with the provinces, the small business advisory committee, the large business advisory committee, the charities consultative committee, the seniors advisory committee, and the members of Parliament who act quite properly on behalf of their constituents in bringing problems or difficulties to my attention.

Tomorrow marks six months, the half-year of my time as Minister of National Revenue. In that period 1,165 letters have come to me from elected officials. Virtually they have been exclusively from members of the House and senators, although occasionally I get letters from members of provincial legislatures, mayors and city councillors.

I repeat that it is quite right and proper for representations to be made to the Minister of National Revenue by members of Parliament. I assure members of the House in all parties, all of which have sent me correspondence about concerns of their constituents, that all such letters are treated by us as fast as we can and as thoroughly as we can. The reviews we give to the cases are as fair as possible. I should add that in every case the decision ultimately rendered is entirely in accordance with taxation laws.

We have introduced in Revenue Canada a very successful E-file program that processes returns more quickly and gets the money owed to Canadians back to them faster than ever before. At the present time returns or refund cheques on E-file run about 11, 12 or 13 days. Of course that is an average. In some cases we get cheques out to people within the week.

Through the administrative consolidation of customs and excise and taxation we have created opportunities for significant administrative savings for taxpayers. This one measure alone, Bill C-2, the first substantive bill introduced in the House after the new government took office, has already resulted in a saving of approximately $30 million through improved administration.

We are working with the provinces to tackle the underground economy through co-operation and increased exchange of information. I must add that Quebec was the first province to conclude an agreement with the federal government on this subject.

The solutions of today require co-operation among all Canadians, individuals, businesses and governments, because the totality of the three levels of government represents the real tax burden on Canadians. There may be three levels of government, but it is certainly true there is only one level of taxpayer.

Federal, provincial and local governments must adopt a harmonized approach to ensure a fair and integrated tax system based on the principles of equity, efficiency and effectiveness, words that are in this motion.

If all three levels of government work together-and that has certainly been the cry of witness after witness before the finance committee-we can have in the future the possibility of reducing the tax burden on Canadians.

The department and I as revenue minister regularly meet with representatives of the provinces and we will continue to do so in order to obtain tax administration improvements quickly.

Canadians want solutions to tax problems when these arise. Canadians want reform but not disruption.

That is what we are doing. We are implementing reforms on a constant, ongoing basis, always with a strong sense that Canadians whether as individuals or in their businesses have invested a great deal of time and effort in understanding the existing tax system.

When we reform various elements of the system we need to give everyone the time to understand and accommodate the changes, the time to build on the knowledge they already have, rather than throw everything out and start again.

The motion we are debating today seeks equity, efficiency and effectiveness in the tax system. The government, the Minister of Finance and myself in particular are seeking to give substance to those principles with a pragmatic approach in which the benefits of change are constantly being weighed against the cost of disruption. We are also trying to do so with a high degree of sensitivity to the reality that these principles must be balanced.

Equity sometimes comes at a cost in terms of efficiency, for example. It is fine to pursue lofty goals, but when the lofty goals conflict one has to recognize there is a need for compromise and understanding. That spirit has motivated our approach to reform in taxation so far. However I should add we are under no illusion that balancing these forces and these reforms certainly does not preclude action.

Let me just read the titles of some bills which we have had in the House since Parliament began in January of this year. The first bill, Bill C-2, an act to amend the Department of National Revenue. It is the one I mentioned earlier. It is the consolidation of the administration of customs, excise and taxation in one department.

Bill C-5, an act to amend the customs tariff, to which royal assent was given on March 24 of this year. This extended the general preferential tariff for certain countries to June 30, 2004 unless an earlier date is fixed by order in council.

Bill C-9, an act to amend the Income Tax Act. Bill C-11, an act to amend the Excise Act, the Customs Act and the Tobacco Sales to Young Persons Act. Bill C-13, an act to amend the Excise Tax Act. Bill C-15, an act to amend certain income tax law amendments.

These are the acts relating to improving revenue administration in Canada which have been introduced in the House since January. We all know the number of acts that have been introduced is not extensive. We are relatively new in this Parliament but let us think about how many acts have related to the revenue portfolio and to the concept of improving and refining the tax system. We have had a veritable torrent of bills that all have as their objective improving the tax system.

I believe the record of reform the motion seeks is already here. I can promise the House and members who have spoken that there will be more. However as we do it, I wish to add, we will continue to be very sensitive because in our view there is a baby in this particular bath that we need to take care of very carefully. The reason I cannot support the motion is that in essence it would throw out the baby with the bath water, would throw out the bathtub and in essence gut the House as well.

The approach of the motion would not achieve the equity, efficiency and effectiveness that I believe we all seek. It would only serve to create confusion, resentment, fear and costs, all of which we in government-and I am sure members of the opposition-should seek to avoid in the tax system.

Canadians are sensible people. They do not want change just for the sake of change. They want improvements with the minimum disruption that can be had to achieve those improvements. That message is coming through loud and clear in the hearings of the finance committee dealing with replacement of the goods and services tax.

We in government have heard that message. We heard it before the election. We heard it from our constituents after the election and specifically in the finance committee on the GST, again an area of reform of the tax system I did not mention in my listing of the bills. We have heard it there time after time after time.

The government will continue to change the tax system in areas where the benefit clearly outweighs the cost. We will continue to seek to improve the operation of the tax system and the efficiency of the department that administers it, namely the Department of National Revenue. We will continue to consult and discuss with other governments, with individuals, with experts, with academics, and with businesses. We will continue to enforce the law as it is written until it is changed by a vote in Parliament.

Our effectiveness in this regard is essential to securing the one true essential of an equitable, efficient and effective tax system: the long term confidence Canadians have in the tax system and in the value of the services they receive from the government. When we act against tax cheaters and smugglers we are acting to support that confidence. It is not fair at all that jobs are lost because of tax cheating or smuggling. It is not fair when revenue is lost because some people are dishonest, when the deficit grows and when legitimate business is forced to compete unfairly against those who evade their taxes.

Because of individuals who do not pay their fair share of tax, it is difficult, if not impossible, for governments at any level to satisfy Canadians' demands for economic growth, lower deficits and meaningful jobs for the unemployed.

Canada is a wonderful, successful country, the envy of the world. But I ask members of this House and all Canadians the following question.

Can we afford to have one sick child turned away from a hospital because lost revenue has created a lack of beds? Can we allow honest and productive Canadians not to enjoy retirement in reasonable comfort and happiness because tax cheating has destroyed the value of their pensions? Can we tolerate a single business to close and lay off hardworking Canadians because we cannot guarantee a level playing field with their competitors who do not pay their taxes as they should? Clearly the answer is no.

We seek the objectives of equity, efficiency and effectiveness for the tax system. We believe we can achieve that, as I trust I have shown in this speech today, by constantly striving to improve the system. I support, and I am sure all members of this House support, equity, efficiency and effectiveness. But the method of completely throwing out the present system, completely throwing it out to change, is not in my view in the interest of this country or the Canadian taxpayer.