Ovid Jackson

[Manganese Based Fuel Additives Act, November 8th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to be here today to speak to Bill C-94, the manganese based fuel additives act.

Yesterday I made the case for the onboard diagnostic equipment. I spoke of the process in an engine during the four-stroke cycle and the fact that when the fuel is burned in such a rapid sequence it exits the tailpipe and how it affects the onboard diagnostic equipment.

I will conclude my remarks by talking about the fuel as it comes out of the exhaust pipe and enters into the catalytic converter. A catalyst is a device that causes something to happen that would not have happened without this device. It basically changes the substance without changing itself.

I talked about what happens with regard to rhodium and platinum and palladium used in this device and how it affects adding or subtracting oxygen and the fact that we added or subtracted oxygen by triggering certain devices by computer controlled mechanisms.

In the House we talk about problems in Canada. We have interprovincial problems. Sometimes because we do not have natural enemies we spend a lot of time navel gazing or talking about other things. It is important, particularly when it comes to the environment, that we act collaboratively and work hard to try to do the best for our country.

The environment is quite fragile. It is quite integrated. As we get more and more knowledgable about it, we understand how important it is and how important it is to interact with it and when we do the right things what the environment can do for us in terms of giving us healthy lifestyles. Given the fact that air will migrate across states and across provinces, it is very important that we have collaborative action to look after that. It does not matter how small those applications are in terms of looking after the environment. We have to act.

I am reminded of the fellow who said "If you think cleaning up the environment is hard, trying cleaning out your garage".

As the House gives final consideration to Bill C-94, I would like to explain the background to this legislation and what it seeks to accomplish.

MMT is the commonly used acronym for a more tongue twisting name: methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl. This is a manganese based fuel additive used to increase the octane rating of gasoline.

MMT was first viewed as a replacement for lead in gasoline. In Canada it has been used since 1977. As all members are aware, lead was phased out of virtually all Canadian gasoline by 1990. The phase-out has brought considerable improvement to urban air quality.

If I may compare MMT to lead, heaven forbid-I think lead was probably more dastardly and more harmful-we would notice that when we try to fill our car up the nozzles for the new gasolines are smaller and the hole is smaller so we cannot use the old nozzles in cases where they have lead.

Lead had its positive points. It was an octane additive. It was used to increase the combustion chamber pressures. If you increase the compression ratio you get higher initial pressure, higher final pressure, and more power. Older cars went up to something like 11:1 compression ratio.

The lead itself actually stops the gasoline from blowing up. Gasoline becomes unpredictable. For those who drive their vehicles very hard, especially some of the older model cars, and turn the ignition switch off with their foot on the accelerator pedal and the car runs on, it is called dieseling or after-running. It is sometimes caused by a hot carbon particle setting the gasoline on fire, although it is not electronically triggered by the sparkplug. It is just the heat that is left in the residual amount of carbon left in the combustion chamber that actually sets the gasoline on fire.

These octane enhancers try to predict or control this explosiveness or the volatility of the gasoline so that it works under controlled processes. When it is controlled it burns a little better and you get better reaction from it and you can control the work it is doing. You are changing heat energy to mechanical work in an engine.

Today almost every Canadian motorist uses MMT, simply because Canadian refineries use it. The exact amount of MMT may vary from one batch of gasoline to another. In general, premium grade gasoline contains a higher MMT level than regular grade gasoline.

MMT has always been controversial. In 1978 it was prohibited for use in unleaded gasoline in the United States because it was

suspected that the substance could damage emission control equipment. Despite recent moves to reverse the U.S. prohibition, MMT is certain to have no place in the high tech cleaner fuels for the future.

Hon. members from the opposition party and the Reform Party have made the case that there is not enough evidence. I have seen films from the automotive manufacturers, and they have said categorically and have shown that the catalysts in the converters are coated at a faster rate. The person who will lose in this case is the consumer.

If Ethyl Corporation and the automotive manufacturers want to work something out, we do not want to be the referee. The federal government has spent a lot of money because members of the opposition and sometimes our own members have asked the government to do certain things. We end up spending a lot of money and sometimes the resultant solutions are not that good.

Look at the Krever report on blood contaminants concerning things that have happened in the past. Those proceedings are going on and on; it is going to cost us millions of dollars and will probably result in a lot of lawsuits from people about things that have happened in the past. It seems the only people who get a lot of jobs are lawyers. I am sure my lawyer friends are going to be mad at me, but that is a problem with some of the things that happen here.

In this case, the federal government should not intervene in a dispute between the Ethyl Corporation and the automotive manufacturers. It has to make a decision on behalf of Canadians and the environment. That is what this decision is all about.

Canada is being forced to confront the downside of MMT not because a new environmental threat has emerged but because we are getting better at countering those threats.

Cleaner air involves using cleaner fuels as well as cleaner cars and trucks. While research has continued on the product we put into our gas tanks, it has also continued on our hardware, the engine that burns the fuel and the control equipment that lowers emissions. Technological advances have steadily cut the harmful emissions coming out of tailpipes.

Now we have taken another major step toward the introduction of sophisticated onboard diagnostic systems, which are known as OBDs. These systems are extremely valuable for the environment. They are responsible for the monitoring of the vehicle's emission controls and alerting the driver to malfunctions. They ensure the cleaner burning engines of today and tomorrow operate as designed. They ensure automobiles are properly maintained, resulting in decreased tailpipe emissions and improved fuel economy.

This is a very important technology, but it is even more important that it works, that it does the job properly on the new cars. This is where the problem arises.

The automobile manufacturers are convinced that gasoline containing MMT adversely affects the operation of sophisticated onboard diagnostic pieces of equipment. Accordingly, the industry has made the decision that it will not accept the risk of increased warranty repair costs caused by MMT related damage. Some companies have even indicated they will disconnect the OBD systems in whole or in part if MMT continues to be used in Canadian gasoline. That means the cost of maintaining these systems could be passed on directly to Canadian consumers and Canadian consumers would pay more to operate these new cars.

What we have here is a conflict between two key industrial sectors, the automotive manufacturers and the oil industry. The car makers insist that MMT harms their product, forcing them to adopt practices that may raise prices for consumers.

The oil industry claims that MMT reduces nitrogen oxide emissions by up to 20 per cent, but the figure is subject to dispute. In any case, alternatives to MMT are available. By the industry's own estimates, the cost of MMT removal translates into an increase of 0.1 to 0.24 cents per litre at the pump, which is a negligible amount, given that gasoline prices regularly fluctuate by a few cents per litre.

The Minister of the Environment urged both industries to find a voluntary resolution to the issue of MMT in Canada by the end of 1994. She said that if they did not do so the government would take action. The deadline was subsequently extended into February of this year to review automotive and petroleum industry proposals. Unfortunately, the matter was not resolved, so the federal government proceeded with Bill C-94.

Allow me briefly to explain the key provisions of the bill. The legislation will prohibit the import or interprovincial trade for a commercial purpose of MMT or unleaded gasoline containing MMT. It will give the Minister of the Environment the power to authorize exceptions for MMT, which will not be used in unleaded gasoline, subject to a monitoring requirement. Coverage of the act can be expanded by order in council to cover other manganese based substances. The act is binding on all persons and entities, including federal and provincial governments.

I believe that the initiative taken by the government is correct. I feel that the onboard diagnostic equipment malfunctions outweigh the gains we can achieve with respect to nitrous oxides. We could control the nitrous oxides. The OBD systems will give us better fuel economy and better burning engines, resulting in fewer emissions to the environment.

[Manganese Based Fuel Additives Act, November 7th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak about the environment. In the natural environment everything is related to everything else. Looking at the hydrostatic cycle for instance, when water evaporates and goes up in the atmosphere, it mixes with all kinds of contaminants and then comes back to earth.

Photochemical smog is caused by the reaction of sunlight with nitrogen oxide, particularly in Los Angeles which is in a valley. Los Angeles is a good example because it has more cars than any other place. I am not sure exactly why it does not have any mass transit systems. I have visited Los Angeles quite often and I know the damage to the environment is bad. It is broadcast over the radio every day that there is eye irritation from smog, or that people with respiratory problems should stay off the streets.

I am going to address the onboard diagnostic equipment. Most members probably do not have the technical knowledge I have. I understand what they are saying about MMT, that an infinitesimal amount of nitrogen oxide will be emitted. However, I make the case that it could be controlled by installing devices on the vehicles.

I will begin by speaking about what happens in a car. A person gets in a car and turns it on which uses gasoline. Gasoline has potential energy of 19,000 British thermal units per pound or per pint, depending on the kind it is. The gasoline is control burned in a vehicle resulting in pressure, forcing a piston down, turning the crankshaft, making a circular motion to the power take-off to drive the wheels which propel us along the road.

In a four stroke cycle engine the air comes into the engine through an intake manifold with the intake valve and opens the piston moving down to the bottom of the cylinder, causing a vacuum in the cylinder. Injectors in this case, or if it is a carburetted engine a venturi effect would cause aspirated air in a stoichiometric ratio, which is about 14 parts of air to one part of gasoline by weight, or 9,000 parts of air to one part of gasoline by volume. That is what the computer will try to monitor by what is called a map sensor. Placed somewhere in the intake system of the vehicle is a piece of foil which takes a certain amount of temperature. That foil knows exactly the volume of air which is going into the engine. The injectors are monitored by a computer which says: "I have this amount of cubic feet of air. Give me this amount of gasoline".

During deceleration periods, for instance on old carburetted engines coming down the hill with the throttle closed, a very large vacuum is created and the gasoline gets very rich. Those kinds of cars create a lot of pollution. On a modern car the system shuts off completely because of the onboard diagnostic system. There is absolutely no gasoline getting in, so it works quite well.

On the intake stroke, the piston moves down and the cylinder is charged. The next stroke is the compression stroke. Both valves are closed, the piston moves up and it compresses the thing to about a tenth of its value. Because we are trying to get rid of nitrogen oxide, we have had to lower the compression ratio of engines. By lowering the compression ratio and bringing the temperature up, we can control nitrogen oxide as well.

The piston comes up and compresses the gas into 10 per cent of its original volume. A sparkplug triggers it at a particular time. The timing is changed depending on the rate of speed in order to ensure that when the actual expansion of the gasoline occurs, when the pressure builds up, it reaches a certain angle on the crank. If it happens before or after, the engine fights against itself and it

actually loses its power. The sparkplug is triggered to fire at a precise time, again by a computer.

The process takes place very quickly. An engine running at 4,000 RPM has 2,000 power strokes per RPM. If we divide that by 60, we will get about 33 sparks per second. The process would last for maybe one-thirtieth of a second. We can see the process happening very quickly. What happens is that all of that stuff escapes and goes into the exhaust system. It has to be monitored by a three way muffler, which I will talk about in a minute.

The last stroke is the exhaust stroke. The piston moves from the bottom to the centre, coming up with the intake valve closed and the exhaust valve open. The piston pushes the gasoline out of the tailpipe.

In the tailpipe there is a catalytic converter. In that catalytic converter is rhodium. Rhodium actually removes oxygen. There is platinum and palladium. Palladium actually adds oxygen. If we had H2 coming out and we wanted to change it to something else, we would add O. We could add O by using an air pump, which is seen on some cars, or we could add O by using a computer triggered diverter to pass the exhaust gases over the platinum, adding oxygen, and now we would have H2O. We have two sets of oxygen instead of one, which changes it into water. If we have CO, for instance, which is carbon monoxide and we want to change it to harmless carbon dioxide, we add O and get CO2. We have two Os.

This is what the diagnostic pieces of equipment are doing. These speak in hertz. They go back and forth and report to the computer exactly what is happening. If there is a knock in the engine, then the computer knows and it will trigger the spark and retard or advance the spark.

If the contaminants coming from the tailpipe are one thing or another, the oxygen sensor in this particular case will pick it up, tell the computer it is getting too many hydrocarbons and the computer will tell the injector to shut off. That is what we are talking about when we talk about onboard diagnostics.

In the onboard diagnostics, there are things like an EGR valve. An EGR valve is used particularly to control nitrogen oxide. As I have said before, nitrogen oxide is the thing we talk about a lot. We say it is the main smog producer.

One of the ways manufacturers get rid of nitrogen oxide is by using exhaust gas recirculation. The unburned gas out of the engine is recycled back through some mechanisms inside the engine and are burned again. The effect of burning it with the rest of the fuel that is in the engine drops the combustion chamber temperature. By dropping the combustion chamber temperature, it reduces the oxides of nitrogen.

The NOx is also reduced from earlier emissions by using a heat stove. You might have seen on cars where there is an intake manifold and there is actually a heat stove. The heat stove allows either hot air to come off the exhaust pipe directly into the engine or it may mix. At some point in time hot air comes up past the exhaust pipe because it gets some heat off of it and some of it comes in through the snorkel. The two are mixed before the air gets into the engine. On a cold engine it makes the engine warm up very quickly.

On modern cars, the onboard diagnostics trigger what is called an open loop system. Most everyone knows that when you get in a car, you do not pump the gas and do all those kinds of things we did with older cars which had carburettors on them. The reason we do not do that is that the computer and the onboard diagnostics monitor everything. It monitors the temperature. It knows if the engine is cold. If you come out and it is minus 20 degrees, it knows that the crankshaft is not turning because it is not picking up any RPM due to a magnetic device which is triggering it.

The oxygen sensor indicates it has pure oxygen and the computer reports back in hertz very quickly, the same as brand new computers here, where the speed gets quicker. On these cars the onboard diagnostics are getting very, very quick in corresponding with one another. That is why there is talk about the effects of this onboard diagnostics.

Imagine an exhaust sensor for instance in the exhaust system. If certain kinds of additives are used in the gasoline and it catches and interferes with the way it records or sends the information back to the computer, it would affect the way the car works. Of course, if it affects it then it triggers other things. What would happen is we would actually get more pollution than if we were using MMT because the thing is not working right.

The onboard diagnostic equipment is very important to us. Onboard diagnostic equipment must be added to cars.

I recently purchased a new car and I have a book here to monitor it. We have to closely monitor the new equipment. Instead of miles per gallon we are getting litres per kilometre. We have to get the amount of kilometres and divide it by 100. For instance, on my new car I am getting about 10.5 litres per 100 kilometres, which is about 27 miles to the gallon. If I am getting 8.5 litres per 100 kilometres, I am getting something like 33 miles per gallon.

We will find that the new vehicles are more fuel efficient than the old ones. The consumer will benefit with onboard diagnostic equipment. Canadians need to have the onboard diagnostic equipment. We do have this argument with fuels, but that argument should be between the automotive manufacturers and the fuel companies, and not this House.

[Manganese Based Fuel Additives Act, November 7th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I have more of a comment than a question. I understand what the hon. member is saying but there is a point to be made about the onboard diagnostic equipment systems

in cars because they could counteract the effects of what comes out of the tailpipe.

[Manganese Based Fuel Additives Act, November 7th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, my good friend from the Bloc made some good points. The jury is still out and the evolution of fuels will continue. We have taken lead out of fuels. We can look at the MMT situation. We have to look at our colleagues in California. The member for Peterborough was right. They are leaders in this field.

I will be speaking to this bill and directly concerning the onboard diagnostic equipment. Vehicles have new onboard diagnostic equipment systems. They are monitoring devices which feed back to the engine to make the engine control the emissions. Coming out of the tailpipe are oxides of nitrogen, unburned hydrocarbons, oil, carbon and water. Every time one gallon of gasoline is burned it produces one gallon of water. If we look at the tailpipe of any vehicle we will see water coming out of it. The use of a three way catalytic converter can control a lot of these things.

[Department Of Health Act, November 6th, 1995]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to speak today to Bill C-95. Health is one of the most important things in Canadian life, if not the most important. The human being is the most valuable resource we have. We can talk about resources, human and natural, but it is our human resources which make Canada the best country in the world.

Today a fundamental piece of legislation for the operation of the federal government is under discussion. Contrary to what has been implied in the House, the role of the federal government in health care is very important. It is crucial for the continued health and well-being of Canadians.

Everyone is familiar with the major role the federal government has played as the architect of a national health insurance system for Canada. Everywhere in the world it is regarded as an excellent example of public sector innovation in a crucial field of service provision. We should not forget what the health system in Canada was like before the advent of national health insurance.

Lack of infrastructure in the health area was highlighted during the Depression when financing was so desperately short that many doctors had to go on relief in the western provinces because patients could not pay their bills. Military recruiting drives for World War II demonstrated the poor health of the overall population, especially military aged males.

Saskatchewan pioneered the national health insurance model, first for hospital services and then for medical services.

The national health system we have today owes its origins to the leadership of consecutive federal governments, first to build infrastructure with hospital grants, with the Hospitals and Diagnostic Services Act and the Medicare Act, and in our own era with the Canada Health Act and established programs financing.

Who among us doubts the importance of this multi-decade effort to build a national health insurance system, both in terms of nation building and in terms of the security it provides each and every Canadian that their medical needs will be met regardless of their pocketbook.

We should not forget that the Canada Health Act, the last incarnation of this major national effort, is a piece of legislation which received all-party support in 1984.

Since this government was elected it has taken its responsibilities under the Canada Health Act very seriously. Under the private clinics policy a rigorous distinction is being drawn between the public health sector for insured services and entrepreneurial medicine. This is a critical distinction. No Canadian should be able to buy his or her way to the front of a queue for services. Services ought to be rendered on the basis of medical need, not by the pocket book.

As important as the CHA is, however, it is but a small part of the federal role in health. Health Canada is operative across Canada to ensure that the food Canadians eat, the drugs they consume and the medical devices they use are safe. It is important to recognize how much the department is operative behind the scenes to guarantee security in these areas. For example, for well-being during a baby examination, the immunization series is provided by a provincially paid practitioner but the quality of the vaccine and vaccination is ensured by the federal government.

Health Canada also plays a major role in encouraging both the public and private sectors to promote health and prevent illness and accidents.

Whatever the hazard of the day, smoking, AIDS, nuclear fall-out, radon, ebola, the plague, there is a Health Canada employee with direct responsibility for ensuring Canadians have the information they require to reduce their risk and that they are aware of the various protective strategies that exist to combat risk. They can

build on those factors in their social and physical environment which will ensure Canadians are protected now and into the future.

Let us look at an instance of how this works. The ebola scare is fresh in Canadian minds. The Quarantine Act was recently invoked to ensure there was no risk of the ebola virus spreading in Canada. Networks of federal officials from Health Canada and, with Health Canada's lead, many federal departments were mobilized to ensure security was always in place to reduce risk and follow up on any and all suspicious circumstances.

Working with Canadians across this great country of ours, using our public health intelligence of the highest calibre, Canadians acquired worldwide respect for their handling of the ebola crisis and their management of a situation with a high potential for panic and public disorder.

Ebola is but one of the many instances in which Health Canada rolls into action to protect Canadians. Many hazards have less public profile. Many require detailed risk assessment to determine how they should be managed. At all times Health Canada has the responsibility for dealing with the national dimensions of hazards to health and reducing them to ensure the high quality of life Canadians enjoy.

Another key role in the department is in the population health area. Recently we have come to understand the power of taking population and sub-populations as the primary unit of analysis in the development of health policy and programming. The health status of populations is heavily influenced by a number of key health determinants including biology, income, education, environment, to mention a few. The department is now in the process of operationalizing the health determinants perspective on issues with the help of many of the country's most creative thinkers in the health area.

As an illustration, take Canada's children as a key sub-population. Concern is increasing about key social indicators such as rates of youth offences and incarceration. Quite recently there was a study on young women which is very troubling partly because of our poor economy.

The preconditions for these increases in rates are set much earlier in the development of a young person. There are recognized determinants that are predictors of pathways that lead to healthy child development; for example, supportive families, social networks, parental employment and so on. There are others that are strong predictors of difficulties in achieving healthy development; for example, inadequate nutrition, high risk socialization patterns.

Important policy factors in development include developing positive relationships, experiencing success and developing self-esteem.

We need to take these types of development considerations into account if we are to build a society in which all young people are able to thrive.

Health Canada is working to make this possible. Programs such as prenatal nutrition and aboriginal headstart are breaking down many of the barriers to a healthy development.

With a population optic on these issues and key investments targeted early in life, we will achieve much to reverse some of society's most ingrained problems.

Health Canada has therefore a major role to play in improving Canadian society. Proof of these important efforts lies in the high quality of life Canadians continue to enjoy despite the rigours of the economic climate of today, the quality of which is unrivalled in the world and will do much to strengthen the federation as we proceed to implement the important post referendum change agenda.

I come from a rural riding. In that riding medicare is important but with the changes we have, the changes in technology for instance, practitioners and people with experience could use video conferences. We will be recruiting very young, good positions and finding ways to look after rural ridings.

[National Housing Act, November 3rd, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, the CMHC gives Canadians a choice of mortgage loan insurance. Without the CMHC Canadians would be served by a private sector monopoly. The risks with a monopoly are higher prices and fewer choices, making housing less affordable, particularly for first time home buyers.

[National Housing Act, November 3rd, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question. The corporation and the Government of Canada are responding to the housing need.

In the construction industry housing is a major motor of the Canadian economy. When the housing sector falters the whole system falters. Many people are looking for jobs right now. In my earlier dissertation I alluded to the fact that nobody in the private markets is not responding.

The initiative does not cost the government a cent. Using my old hat as mayor of Owen Sound, we have had private sector and CMHC interventions. The main role of CMHC is to make sure that handicapped people are looked after, that the heating requirements and other construction requirements are met before they are allowed insurance. There has to be a balance in the system. If the government intervenes too much it probably affects the private sector people. In the communities there is a groundswell to keep that from happening.

I assure the member there is a need for the initiative. Infusion in this category is probably better than putting it in other places because of the spinoff effects of building homes in communities. There will be a multiplier effect on the dollar and job creation. The activity it will create in the hardware store, the corner store and for construction workers, et cetera, will be enormous.

It is simply that there is a real need and it is a great thing to happen. As I have said before, health, work and housing are the three most important things for Canadians. This initiative helps those exactly.

[National Housing Act, November 3rd, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to speak about housing.

Since giving my first speech in this House during the throne speech debate, I have pledged to be one of those members who tries to make a difference and tries to make things work.

A wise man was once asked which was the most important level of government: provincial, federal or municipal. The wise man thought for a little while and responded by asking which was the most important leg of a three-legged stool.

We have had the referendum. I must say that I work in this House with all members from all sectors, the independents, the BQ, the Reform Party, the NDP, the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party. There is a lot of talent. Many of us are spending a lot of time on other things when the taxpayers have indicated there are so many restructuring things happening and the Canadian economy needs to be addressed. Yet we get into partisan discussions which are sometimes pretty nonsensical. We talk about devolution, restructuring and downsizing. Some people do not even know what the heck they are talking about with regard to those.

As a member of this House I am going to start talking directly to the Canadian people. They have sent us to this place to do a job. We have talents and we have to use those talents. We must use Canada's resources, both human and natural, to the best advantage for Canadians. Canadians expect to have jobs. They expect to have good health care and they expect to have good housing.

To address one of the points raised by the hon. member of the Reform Party, I remind him that the mortgage insurance premiums charged by the CMHC are sufficient to meet the risks being assumed at no cost to the government. The viability of CMHC's mortgage insurance fund is assessed annually by an independent actuary. An actuarial evaluation of the fund as of September 30, 1994 has confirmed its long term solvency.

Since 1946 CMHC has returned $1 billion in the form of taxes and profits. The mortgage insurance fund contributed an additional $35 million in 1992 to the consolidated revenue fund. The member also needs to be reminded that the activities of the fund contribute to the stable supply of affordable housing for all Canadians, including the handicapped and poor people.

No province has expressed an interest in moving into this sector of the economy. There is no duplication. A change in the market is essential for the viability of the fund. This balances the economic and budgetary risks. Clearly the third party is ignoring 320,000 Canadians who have purchased homes throughout the land with the fund.

Before returning to the substance of the bill I would like to address some comments by a member of the Bloc Quebecois. On one hand we have the Reform Party balance sheet argument. On the other hand I had a lot of sympathy for my friend from the BQ because he was looking at disadvantaged people. He talked about the fact that some of them made only $30,000 and had problems.

I will return to the facts. I say as a mayor of a community that we needed intervention by governments. There were slum landlords. There were cockroaches. There was inadequate housing. The heat would be turned off at certain periods of time. That intervention has brought real standards so that we could have good homes for all Canadians.

The member opposite did not give the correct statistics with regard to the amount of funds spent in Quebec. I will address some of his comments. Between 1986 and 1993 Quebec received 29 per cent of all federal social housing units committed nationwide. In 1994-95 in Quebec $357 million was spent on social housing. The member simply chooses to ignore the importance of that contribution.

That contribution means that 140,000 units of social housing received federal assistance in Quebec. It also means that Canadians in Quebec have benefited from federal programs like the residential rehabilitation assistance program.

One factor the member should be aware of is that the funding for new social housing commitments in Canada has been distributed according to a model established on need. That is why Quebec received 29 per cent of all federal units between 1986 and 1993. Additionally between 1992 and 1994 there were more than 53,000 instances of first home loan insurance for Canadians in Quebec. This is one example of what the federal government can do to assist all Canadians.

This program costs the government nothing. CMHC has returned more than $1 billion in profits and taxes to the federal government. Over and above this amount, the federal government has received $55 million from the mortgage insurance fund. This amount was returned to the consolidated revenue fund in 1992. It is being applied to reduce the federal deficit.

We have a great country in Canada. We have our problems but we have solutions to the problems. When we work collaboratively on the solutions the country will do well. That is why we are the best in the world, between number one and number three. That is why we have good standards.

Notwithstanding that globally we have a lot of structural change, Canadians will come out better because we will apply the programs for which the government was elected. We have the talent to do it and we have the will to do it.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in support of Bill C-108, an act to amend the National Housing Act. This is an administrative bill, the purpose of which is to increase the ceiling of the CMHC mortgage loan insurance from the current $100 billion to $150 billion.

My colleague also described for us the importance of the role of the CMHC's mortgage loan insurance, the importance that it played and continues to play in helping Canadians to have access to home ownership.

Home ownership is a cherished dream held by many Canadians and there are good reasons for it. Home equity is a major portion of wealth accumulated by households and has been a great source of retirement savings for Canadians. The concept of home speaks to one of our basic human needs. Home is a place where people feel secure. Owning a home gives people a stake in their community and a sense of belonging.

Home ownership is a concept that the people of Canada support. That is not likely to change at any time soon. It is therefore critical that CMHC is able to continue to provide mortgage loan insurance to Canadians today and in the future.

One of the most important aspects of CMHC mortgage loan insurance is the public policy mandate to provide equal access to mortgage financing at the lowest possible cost for all Canadians regardless of where they live in Canada. Equal access is achieved through cross-subsidization. Surpluses generated from lower risk businesses are used to fund shortfalls in higher risk businesses.

The public policy mandate of equal access distinguishes the CMHC in a major way from the private insurer. Without access to

CMHC mortgage loan insurance Canadians in some parts of the country would have to come up with a conventional 25 per cent of the value of the house as a down payment. Needless to say, many Canadians would hardly ever be able to purchase a home if this were the case.

CMHC's mortgage insurance is therefore critical in helping Canadians to access home ownership. CMHC has long recognized that the housing financial needs of Canadians are diverse. The corporation's mortgage loan insurance has traditionally demonstrated the flexibility to respond to varying needs.

I refer to an example that has helped hundreds of Canadians realize the affordable home ownership dream. The manufactured housing or mobile home industry has contributed greatly to giving Canadians access to good quality, affordable housing. CMHC has been working in partnership with the manufactured housing industry for many years because of the importance of the housing sector in the economy of Canada as a whole.

Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation introduced its chattel loan insurance program, known as CLIP, as a five-year experiment in 1988. The objectives of CLIP were twofold: first, to improve access to alternative forms of affordable housing without involving government expenditures and, second, to help place manufactured homes in a more competitive position with conventionally built homes.

CMHC completed an evaluation of CLIP last year which confirmed that the program is an important instrument in increasing access to good quality affordable housing without involving government expenditures. The evaluation also confirmed that CLIP has had a positive impact on the manufactured housing industry and mobile home park developments.

Following the results of the evaluation the minister responsible for CMHC was pleased to announce an expansion of the chattel loans insurance program. As a result it now includes new homes, resale homes and manufactured homes in Canada.

CLIP is an affordable alternative for many of the approximately 335,000 moderate income rental households that could not previously afford to purchase a mobile home. The CMHC and the manufactured housing industry have enjoyed a productive partnership for many years. They have been working together to help Canadians gain access to good quality, affordable housing and to enhance the viability of the industry. The enhancement of CLIP will lead to greater access to mobile homes as affordable options for many Canadians and will encourage growth in the housing industry.

CMHC and the mobile home industry have done their part. The consumers have shown they are interested in mobile homes as a housing option. Certainly there can be no doubt of the importance of NHA insurance in making the program possible.

This is only one example of how NHA mortgage insurance has met the specific need and why NHA mortgage insurance must be maintained as a public policy instrument capable of evolving to meet the future housing needs of Canadians.

With any eye on future needs CMHC is currently working to develop a variety of new housing finance instruments made possible by innovative uses of mortgage loan insurance. In developing new products CMHC is looking to the challenge the creativity of the financial community to ensure that the largest possible number of borrowers can find a product in the marketplace to meet their precise needs. A variety of choices will encourage lenders to compete on a basis of service and product differentiation.

The financial environment in which CMHC's mortgage loan insurance business operates has undergone significant changes in recent years. The introduction of one-stop financial services, the increased use of technological systems to support businesses and operations, and the need to manage expenditures and facilitate better risk management are factors that have had an impact on the way in which CMHC runs its mortgage insurance operations.

CMHC has responded to a changing environment by continually reviewing its processes for delivering mortgage insurance and introducing improvements and efficiencies where needed. Ensuring that CMHC's mortgage loan insurance remains relevant and capable of responding to the changing housing and financial needs of Canadians adds a major focus to the activity of the corporation.

CMHC is now focusing on the introduction of new processing mechanisms which will utilize the capabilities or electronic communications between CMHC and its approved lender clients. The enhancements will allow the corporation to serve better the needs of the Canadian housing consumer.

Mortgage loan insurance has played a significant public policy role in the past. CMHC's stewardship will continue to evolve to meet the changing needs of Canadians and the financial community.

[Ed Peppler, November 3rd, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge one of my constituents who has returned from the Caribbean as a volunteer with the Canadian Executive Service Organization.

Mr. Ed Peppler of Hanover, Ontario recently completed a CESO project in Dominica. He was asked to start a furniture manufacturing workshop within a woodworking factory that was only producing small gift type items. Mr. Peppler oversaw the purchasing of machinery and taught the staff how to make furniture. The staff members were soon busy filling orders for the new products and were looking to hire three or four new people. The machinery, furniture, hardware, and tires for their vehicles were all purchased from Canadian manufacturers to help the plant.

Ed Peppler's efforts stand in the tradition of Canadian aid to the developing world. I and the town of Hanover, with its rich heritage in furniture manufacturing, and indeed the people of Bruce-Grey applaud the spirit of volunteerism and international co-operation of Mr. Peppler.

[Department Of Health Act, November 2nd, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, I have been waiting here all day; there is nothing closer to my heart than work and health care.

I was fortunate at 12.30 today to listen to the great American fighter, Ralph Nader, talk about health care to the nurses association. He said that in the United States of America some 80,000 people died in hospital due to malpractice. That is more people

than those killed by accidents and those killed by homicides. His contention was that it was malpractice and that some doctors in their system were actually operating on Americans who had no disease at all.

We hear a lot about systems in the world. Mr. Nader said, and I think the parliamentary secretary from Vancouver Centre said it as well, that our system rates between one and three in the world. There is no question about that. Mr. Nader also mentioned that some 38 million Americans do not have any health care. He said the longest waiting line in the world is for those with no health care at all.

Our friends opposite talk about having a two tier system. I want to cover that point. We have a $72 billion pot of money. What happens if we start to shift the money over? Profit will motivate many people such as insurance companies. Most doctors are very good. I would not say anything against them because many of my friends are doctors. They follow the Hippocratic oath. They are well versed, Christian and want to help people. However, there is the occasional doctor who looks at the balance sheet.

I got a pile of books from a friend in Los Angeles on their medicare system. They talk about waiting lines as if there is a panacea in the United States. There are many scam artists in the United States. They go for capitation. If five doctors each have 1,500 patients and each patient pays about $200 a month, it amounts to a pile of money. A patient can select one of the five doctors. However if the doctor sends too many people for CAT scans and various other expensive procedures he is called before a procedure committee and the patients are stacked up.

There are no easy answers. Our system is good. It needs to be fixed. We cannot legislate against stupidity or when people do not do things right. If there is a waiting line for hip fractures I am sure the hospital board will allocate enough resources to shorten the line.

How does my friend from Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca envisage this two tier system? When people are sick and cannot pay for services we end up with a two tier system. The doctor says he will see the patient in the clinic across the street at night because there is not enough money in the system. That is what happens in a two tier system.