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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was quebec.

Last in Parliament May 2004, as Liberal MP for Lac-Saint-Louis (Québec)

Won his last election, in 2000, with 74% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act December 5th, 1994

During the last election, we on this side of the House promised an in-depth review of existing regulations as well as ongoing consultation on the others. Some existing regulations have been reviewed thoroughly and substantially improved as many witnesses have recognized, in fact.

All the other regulations are subjected to the same in-depth analysis by all the interested parties.

I am very sympathetic to the member's suggestion, but the suggestion does not seem to recognize that extensive consultation has taken place, nor does it reflect the fact that the development of regulations is a much larger question than that contained in the regulations under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.

If the member for The Battlefords-Meadow Lake wishes to change the federal regulatory development process, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act is certainly not the place to do it. For this reason the government will not accept this motion, nor the amendment to the motion.

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act December 5th, 1994

May I speak to both at the same time? It is the same subject anyway.

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act December 5th, 1994

Madam Speaker, I would like to say first of all that I am a bit surprised at the Bloc Quebecois position. Despite explanations by the hon. member for Terrebonne, one cannot help wondering how the Bloc Quebecois can move an amendment to an amendment to a bill over which it is in total disagreement. It is a bit surprising.

Similarly, I would like to refer to remarks by the hon. member for Laurentides who keeps harping on the same old theme that the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act is some kind of absolute intrusion in prerogatives of provinces and more particularly Quebec.

I want to point out to the hon. member that the federal government has not only the right but the responsibility, as stated by the Supreme Court, to deal with environmental assessment, if only in such areas of exclusive jurisdiction as coastal zones, navigable waters, fisheries, national harbours, airports, the St. Lawrence Seaway, Crown lands, native lands, defence facilities, not to mention the shared jurisdiction on environment itself.

Indeed, I would point out to the hon. member for Laurentides, if she is interested in getting information, that joint assessments have been made for a very long time in Quebec concerning, for example, Cacouna Harbour, the St. Marguerite River more recently and the Lachine Canal very recently. There are instances of several projects assessed either by BAPE or, on rare occasions, by the federal government, when the project was essentially under federal jurisdiction.

As for the motion by the hon. member for The Battlefords-Meadow Lake, we are quite aware that under several acts of Parliament, regulatory systems are established independently of Parliament.

In the case of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, the regulations were subjected to one of the most rigorous and progressive procedures established by the Government of Canada. During the last election, we on this side of the House promised an in-depth review of the existing regulations-

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act December 5th, 1994

Madam Speaker, I wish to speak to the three motions. First, Motion No. 1 from the member for The Battlefords-Meadow Lake, ensures that projects reviewed through a process of independent decision-making are instituted.

The member's suggestion is indeed interesting. However, he is adding words to an amendment which has been put forward to promote the concept of one project, one assessment. In this regard I suggest his proposal is out of place.

With respect to the intent of the member's suggestion, the government has put forward in Bill C-56 an amendment to section 37 of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act which would ensure that projects are subject to public review through an open and transparent process. This amendment ensures that panel recommendations are reviewed and responded to by the governor in council, thus ensuring that not just one minister will respond to panel recommendations.

The government believes that this amendment, along with the creation of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency, will allow for decision-making which is as independent as possible, coupled with an open and transparent process in which all Canadians may participate. For this reason the government will not support this motion.

Motion No. 2, moved by the member for The Battlefords-Meadow Lake, goes right to the heart of the cabinet decision-making process. The government has committed itself to ensuring that public reviews are carefully considered and responded to.

However to suggest that the governor in council be given a time limit to respond would unduly fetter the decision-making process of the federal government. It would as well not reflect the seriousness of the decisions in front of cabinet.

In some cases ministers may wish to respond quickly, or depending on the significance or complexity of the issue, the governor in council may well wish to take more time in its consideration of projects which are of national significance. The length of deliberations might also be influenced by stakeholders that in some cases may desire speedy responses or in others a more lengthy debate.

Further, as the member knows, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act is progressively designed to encourage harmonization with the provinces. In this light many provinces do not have time lines and it would be inappropriate for the Government of Canada to impose them.

While we can understand the intent of the member's motion, we feel that the proposed amendment would unduly fetter decision-making and would contradict the careful deliberation that environmental assessment calls for. The government therefore cannot support this motion.

Finally, with regard to Motion No. 3, introduced by my colleague for Comox-Alberni, as was confirmed by the committee studying Bill C-56, the governor in council responses to public reviews will be and must be made by order in council. This is the way the governor in council works.

In this regard the member's motion is somewhat redundant and the government again cannot support its adoption.

Credentials November 3rd, 1994

Mr. Speaker, to have a good idea of what the Department of National Defence spends in Quebec, you must look at all the facts.

In 1993-94, 22.1 per cent of total military spending was in Quebec. This is an increase from 19.5 per cent in 1992-93.

In fact, Quebec received 33 per cent of military capital spending in 1993-94.

Of course, no single measure can provide an answer for such a complex subject as defence; the Canadian Forces do not exist primarily to ensure regional balance but to meet the defence needs of the country from coast to coast.

The military presence in Quebec is quite significant: the headquarters of the land forces command is in Saint-Hubert, one of the three brigades is based in Valcartier and one of the two main bases of operation for the CF-18 fighters is in Bagotville.

Six of 24 naval reserve divisions are still in Quebec. And a Naval Reserve school is presently under construction in Quebec.

As the Minister of National Defence told this House yesterday, the government will carefully consider the special joint committee's report, including those recommendations made by Bloc Quebecois members. All recommendations will be considered in the development of a new defence policy for Canada. Once that is done, the minister will take any necessary action.

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act October 31st, 1994

Mr. Speaker, much has changed since the cases referred to by my hon. colleague. First there is a Supreme Court decision which makes it quite clear that when the federal government has a jurisdiction it not only should get involved, it has the duty and obligation to get involved. It does not have any chance or opportunity to escape. It must get involved.

There was a timidity before on the part of the federal government to intervene where it had a clear case of jurisdiction, for example on Canadian waters, on fisheries. Now this case is clear. There has been pressure from the Canadian public

to say to their federal government that it has to get involved because it represents a big part of the total jurisdiction.

What will happen now in the case of the provinces and the federal government is that there will be a sensitization that they have to work together, that we cannot confront each other any more. I think this will happen.

There was a recent case in my own province. The Lachine Canal has been an example of a problem which could have led to confrontation but a joint panel was extremely effective and under the provincial system works extremely well. That is going to become the practical way of doing things in the future.

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act October 31st, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I would like to respond to my colleague who is a fellow member of the committee on environment and sustainable development, as is the member for Terrebonne. We show in committee that we can work in great harmony and in a very positive climate regardless of party stripes. It has always been my view that this is the way to do it.

For one year I was president of the Council of Environment Ministers of Canada. I found there was a tremendous amount of goodwill. Sure there were quarrels and disputes as regards jurisdiction. There always will be in a federal system. There always will be in any system. That is the way the world works. At the same time, if we put our differences aside, we can find ways to harmonize our views and our objectives.

For example, the Canadian Council of Environment Ministers has been actively working. Civil servants from the federal government and every province have been working together for a particular harmonization protocol on this very question of environmental assessment. It has worked very actively.

During the term of Minister Paradis who unfortunately is no longer minister because the government was defeated, Mr. Paradis insisted and made sure that a senior civil servant from Quebec was present and took an active part in the deliberations. Unfortunately that is no longer the case because since proclamation of the act Quebec has withdrawn its representative. All the other provinces are working actively. The minister has written to Quebec's minister praying that he rejoin the ranks.

I am certain that agreements can be put into place that respect fully the provincial jurisdictions. The federal government does not want to encroach. All it wants to do is to ensure that when federal prerogatives such as the Fisheries Act are involved that it complies with the dictates of the Supreme Court, it complies with the wishes of Canadians and that among us and between us instead of duplicating our efforts we make them complementary, integrate them for the benefit of all of us.

I am convinced we can do that. We have to have the resolve and that resolve starts among us here. If it is transmitted along and the provincial governments realize that we want to co-operate, to act together rather than confront, it is going to happen. I hope it is going to happen too with the Government of Quebec.

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act October 31st, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I cannot answer for Mr. Paradis, but all I can say is that when I was environment minister in Quebec, I had appointed an associate deputy minister, Mr. Divay, who worked actively with the federal government to seek the kind of administrative agreement which was signed today between Alberta and the federal government.

In fact, I could quote several cases of joint work which was done as actively as possible, for example, in the case of Sainte-Marguerite, in the case of the Lachine canal, which is a current case where joint panels have been established between the federal and provincial governments. In fact, I would like to refer the hon. member for Terrebonne to a statement which was made just recently to the Montreal Gazette by the Leader of the Opposition-unfortunately, I cannot find my quote, but in any case, it is official, it is widely known and I would be very pleased to send it to the hon. member for Terrebonne-where the Leader of the Opposition is criticizing Mr. Paradis for getting angry.

He says in the Gazette : I do not know why Mr. Paradis got so excited, because that legislation is a very good piece of legislation''. So, perhaps the hon. member for Terrebonne should speak to his leader and ask him why he thought that Mr. Paradis got too angry when he intervened on Bill C-13. There were several quotes from the Leader of the Opposition. I will quote his statement to Mr. Jean-François Lisée on October 21, 1993. Mr. Jean-François Lisée asked him:What is going to happen? Are you going to oppose Jacques Parizeau if he comes to power in a few months?'', speaking about Bill C-13, the same legislation we are talking about today. This was just before the election, a few days before the election, and he answered: ``Oh no, Mr. Parizeau will also abide by the law. The P.Q. has accepted the position''.

But later, just recently, a few days ago, he said repeatedly that the bill is well-founded, that he does not see in it any federal and provincial jurisdictional quarrel and that there is a way to find a common ground if we arrive at some agreements. That is what we want to do, that is what I tried to do as environment minister

in Quebec. For me, the environment has always been much more important than jurisdictional quarrels and petty squabbles.

I believe that every one must respect each other's jurisdictions, but we must do it in a constructive way, by trying to find solutions instead of confrontational elements. That has always been my position.

Canadian Environmental Assessment Act October 31st, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to take part in this debate on Bill C-56, an Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. This bill will improve some components of the federal environmental assessment process.

I will take a few minutes to describe briefly the object and scope of the amendments before the House and to try and explain the principles behind this reform.

First of all, I would like to emphasize that these amendments reflect the commitments made in the red book, which is the agenda of the Liberal Party of Canada. Our government is determined to keep these commitments which were made during the last election campaign.

In our view the three amendments are not only essential to the effective implementation of the federal environmental assessment process but are also in keeping with the expectations of the main stakeholders.

We introduced a whole chapter in the red book on sustainable development. We committed ourselves to installing an auditor general of the environment and sustainable development. The minister has already introduced reforms in that regard. We committed ourselves to installing a task force on the economic instruments that would favour the environment and sustainable development. The task force is now at work and will present a report to the ministers of finance and of the environment for eventual inclusion of their recommendations into the February budget.

We committed ourselves to an environmental industry strategy. The strategy has now been introduced to try to help environmental technologies develop themselves and improve their strength and efficiency in Canada for the betterment of our sustainable development strategy overall. We committed ourselves to a review of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act which by the way is a statutory requirement. This is now in process.

Perhaps the key element of our sustainable development reforms and resolve is contained in the proclamation of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act to which we committed ourselves. We truly believe and are convinced that environmental assessment is the key element to pollution prevention, to a better environmental standard which leads to quality of life and a sustainable society.

Two of the amendments presented in Bill C-56 are aimed at meeting repeated requests by environmental protection groups from across Canada in recent years. The third amendment is designed to reduce uncertainty and delays in the application of the federal environmental assessment process, a concern which is shared by all stakeholders and certainly by the provinces.

If I could speak to the first amendment which has to do with participant funding, it provides for the legal guarantee of a participant funding program designed to encourage Canadians to take part in public hearings held by environmental assessment review panels.

Participant funding is a major concern of environmental groups and is quite understandable. I should explain that the environmental assessment of major projects that are subject to public hearings is an extremely complex exercise. Generally speaking the environmental assessment of major projects results in several volumes of technical information. For example, in the case of Great Whale several thousands pages of information had to be produced and studied. We cannot expect informed public

participation unless the groups representing the citizens at large who are directly affected by a project have access to funding to state their case.

Participation in the environmental assessment process requires staff, it requires technical resources for analysing reports, drafting a response, preparing briefs and presenting views at public hearings let alone the travel to various points in the land. It is a simple matter of equity.

Some environmental groups and public community groups are faced with tremendous odds when up against huge institutions and corporations which have unlimited funding to present their case. The need for participant funding is not new. It was identified many years ago. The 1987 white paper on the reform of the federal environment review process entitled "Reforming Federal Environmental Assessment" addressed this need and proposed the establishment of a participant funding program.

Following national public consultation carried out as part of the reform, some funding was made available by the previous government. The funds were administered by the Federal Environmental Assessment Review Office, FEARO, and were provided to participants in the activities of federal or joint panels reviewing such projects as, for example, Soligaz in Quebec, the St. Marguerite hydroelectric project in Quebec and the Vancouver airport project.

However, the previous government refused to make a firm commitment or to guarantee participant funding for all the environmental assessments. In this respect the current wording of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act is unsatisfactory for it simply allows a minister to create a participant funding program.

The wording of Bill C-56 goes much further. It creates the obligation to establish a participant funding program in keeping with the Liberal Party's red book commitment which reads:

A Liberal government will amend the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act to legally recognize intervener funding as an integral component of the assessment process.

This is what we are doing by this very important amendment.

The second amendment provides for only one federal assessment per project. It results from the more general commitment made by the government to improve the efficiency of federal government services and to significantly reduce duplication. This amendment will ensure that, to the extent possible, only one federal environmental assessment will be conducted with respect to a project.

In fact, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act already contains many provisions to avoid duplicating similar provincial processes. It provides for delegation of authority where pre-assessments, comprehensive studies and follow-up programs are concerned. It also provides for signing harmonization agreements and creating "single windows" in each of the provinces. The Canadian Environmental Assessment Act also includes provisions to facilitate the work of joint panels.

Several years ago I happened to be minister of the environment for Quebec. At that time I negotiated long and hard with the federal minister of the time, Mr. McMillan, to try and get to the very position we are in today in the act, which is to have some sort of a process whereby the federal government and the provinces would be able to install joint panels. In the case of provincial jurisdictions there would be provincial panels with the federal government sending observers if it had an interest in the project, or vice versa, or sometimes mixed panels.

I remember a case that was under discussion, the airport in Saint-Jean, where unfortunately we were not able to arrive at a conclusion of this process. Now we will be able to.

This amendment has two goals. First, it seeks to co-ordinate information requirements throughout the federal civil service, should a project be subject to more than one study under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.

For example, when a project funded by the federal government also requires a permit under the regulation, it is theoretically possible that two different assessments will be necessary. In such cases, we want to give the developer the assurance that the assessment will meet the requirements of all the federal authorities involved.

Time is the other aspect of this amendment. Whenever possible, we want the environmental assessment to meet the information needs of federal authorities for the duration of the project. We want to avoid asking the developer to conduct an assessment at the planning stage, another one at the implementation stage, another one when work is temporarily interrupted and another one when equipment is no longer used and activities are permanently shut down.

It is true that the legislation in its present form contains some provisions requiring co-operation among federal authorities. For example, section 12 stipulates that where there are more than one responsible authority in relation to a project, they shall together determine the manner in which to perform their respective duties and functions. Nothing in the existing legislation forces them to require only one assessment for each project. This is totally unacceptable if our goal is to have a coordinated, effective and consistent process, and I am sure it is the goal we are all pursuing.

With this amendment, the federal government is doing its share. The amendment is designed to meet the legitimate expectations of those who are justifiably opposed to conducting more than one environmental assessment for the federal government. Combined with the current harmonization initiative undertaken by the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, I am hopeful that this amendment will help us reach our ultimate goal, which is to conduct only one environmental assessment with respect to a project, no matter how many authorities are involved.

I am sure the third amendment will contribute to curbing Canadians growing dissatisfaction with government and to restoring parliamentary integrity.

Again I would like to quote the Liberal Party's red book which addresses this particular problem. On page 87 it states:

The people are irritated with governments that do not consult them, or that disregard their views, or that try to conduct key parts of the public business behind closed doors.

The manner in which the previous government dealt with panel recommendations certainly fueled the public's dissatisfaction with Canada's democratic institutions. Indeed, when a major project raised public concerns, the scenario was always the same. A review panel was established. It studied the possible impacts of the project for months and sometimes even for years. It consulted the public affected by the project. It then drafted a detailed report containing specific recommendations.

However, as soon as one of these reports reached a federal minister's desk, unexplainable things would happen. In some cases the minister responsible would examine the report and make a decision without consulting his or her colleagues. In other cases the cabinet would meet to study the recommendations of the panel and would decide, for its own reasons which it did not have to divulge, to ignore the most important ones. In most cases the previous government's decisions were completely out of line with the key recommendations set out in the panel's reports.

Under certain circumstances I agree that this may be perfectly justified. Unlike panel members, who are appointed and who are not accountable to the public, the members of government are elected to make decisions.

This said, it is in our view unacceptable for a government to entrust a panel of experts with a task of examining an issue and with consulting the public and then to turn around and reject their recommendations with no explanation for its decision. Environmental protection groups and the media were very often critical of previous governments' decisions.

In most cases they felt that short term economic and political gains would take precedence over the long term environmental benefits that form the basis of most recommendations made in the panel reports.

If the government systematically ignores the panel's recommendations, it will be difficult to restore the public's confidence in our institutions, be it in regard to the environment or otherwise. In fact the principle of public consultation itself is thus called into question.

It will also be very difficult to convince proponents to comply with the process and to find qualified individuals to serve on the panels. Besides, it will not be easy to convince affected Canadians to take part in the hearings. How can we hope to encourage public participation if the government is completely free to ignore all recommendations and if it is not required to provide the reasons behind its decisions? Under these circumstances, how will the government be able to convince Canadians that it made the right decision in the first place?

The point is not to tie the hands of decision makers and to give non-elected panel members decision making powers, but rather to restore a proper and judicious balance. If the government decides to accept the recommendations of an environmental assessment panel, everyone wins. However, should it decide to accept certain recommendations and to reject others, it will be required to provide explanations. If its explanations are clear, the integrity of the environmental review process will remain intact.

The problem that arises from the desire to strike a balance between ministerial prerogative and the recommendations of environmental assessment panels was addressed in the 1987 white paper to which I have referred before on the reform of the federal assessment process.

The proposed amendment will require the responsible minister to draft a response to the recommendations of an environmental assessment panel. This response will have to be examined and approved by the governor in council, in other words by the cabinet.

This bill meets real needs, and it improves the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. The government's goal is to have only one federal assessment on any given project. The creation of a participant funding program will encourage Canadians to participate in the hearings conducted by review panels.

Finally, the principle of openness in government will apply, because the government will have to respond officially to the recommendations made by review panels. Those amendments will contribute to restore public trust in federal democratic

institutions. The government intends to proclaim the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act in January 1995.

The four required regulations have been published in Part II of the Canada Gazette on October 19. The amendments before us should be passed as soon as possible, because all Canadians stand to gain from their early implementation after the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act has been proclaimed.

The environment knows no boundaries. It is a matter of equity. It is a matter of common sense. It is a matter of a sustainable society for all of us besides the coming generations.

I could not help but find it strange when the critic for the Bloc Quebecois referred to-

-a guardianship being forced on the province of Quebec. The Bloc Quebecois also claims that profound changes have been made since the present Leader of the Opposition introduced the bill a few years ago. The amazing thing is that, since the environment minister made her statement on the proclamation of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, there has not been a single question asked about that so-called jurisdictional calamity. There have been questions on all sorts of things, and countless questions on tobacco. But the environment does not seem to be such an important issue.

In fact, not a single question was asked about such a supposedly important decision as putting the province under guardianship. Indeed, the Leader of the Opposition himself and his party's critic had every opportunity to make any statement they liked on the subject. There were only two, one just before the 1993 election and another on October 13, 1994, to the Gazette , in which he said that he was satisfied with the law and that there was no petty squabble between Mr. Parizeau and him on this subject, because he approved of the law and thought that it was a good one.

We must set our petty squabbles aside and realize that the environment is much larger than all of us, that we must co-operate and have the will to work together. That is what we want to do, on this side of the House, by presenting these amendments. We want to be co-operative, positive and build things for ourselves and future generations.

Bankruptcy Act October 25th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, in reply to the hon. member for Davenport I would mention that a toxic substances management policy was released on September 27 and given a period of 60 days for consultation and comments from the public and other interested bodies.

This period is going to end on November 30, 1994. Obviously among the comments I expect to be received include the key questions raised by the hon. member such as what really constitutes pollution prevention. Today the minister alluded to pollution prevention in a statement in the House as part of the very basis of our objective in trying to pursue environmental and sustainable development goals.

The question of pollution prevention, the definition of toxicity, the whole concept of reverse onus, the whole question of levels raised by the hon. member are obviously going to come up. These concepts or ideas require co-ordination with existing instruments, as rightly underlined by the member, with CEPA and with the other policies and programs of government.

What I strongly suggest to the hon. member is given the high regard in which he is held by all his colleagues in regard to environmental questions, including by the minister herself, is that he provide his input into the consultation process on these very issues that are so crucial to a reliable toxic substances policy.

I would suggest to the hon. member that between now and November 30 he let the minister have his thoughts and I can assure him they will be taken with very serious and constructive consideration.