Jean Dubé

[Human Resources Development, March 23rd, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, the deputy minister chaired several meetings of the audit committee at HRDC.

Is the minister telling the House that the deputy minister was negligent for failing to inform her of her department's meddling?

[Human Resources Development, March 23rd, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, today the auditor general informed the HRDC committee that the internal audit resulted in many meetings of departmental staff. Does the minister seriously believe that the deputy minister did not inform her of these findings before the day that she said?

[Human Resources Development, March 22nd, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, when the government introduced TJF after the reform to employment insurance why were there no specific guidelines to protect taxpayers' very important money? Why were there no special guidelines to protect them from the very mismanagement we have before us today?

[Human Resources Development, March 22nd, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, this week the senior public servant in the land flatly contradicted the Minister of Human Resources Development on the issue of pockets of poverty.

Will the minister explain to us what a pocket of poverty is? Is it three Liberals in an apartment on Main Street in her riding?

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised, because only rarely do we get a good question from the members on the government side. I would like to congratulate my colleague.

As many in this House know, it is difficult to obtain information under this law. Often, we can wait months, or even years.

We rarely get all we asked for. So it is difficult for us as parliamentarians, representatives of the people of Canada, to guarantee transparency. It would be an idea for all of us in the House of Commons to consider such a measure in order to give Canadians more transparency in the management of various programs and in the management of funds in Ottawa.

I would indeed be pleased to review this law at some point. If the member opposite would care to sit down with me to discuss the matter, I would be pleased.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for the excellent comments and praise he has given me. I hope he enjoyed his time in New Brunswick, one of the most beautiful provinces in the country.

To return to the question, yes, together we can bring down the government, and that is what we must do. We remember very well that the Prime Minister said in the House “It is only $251”. The member for Frontenac—Mégantic is absolutely right. The Prime Minister said $251, some three weeks ago, a month ago, and today we are up to 19 police investigations. Yes we will vote together and hope that we will bring down the government.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

That is probably why. I have the questions I asked of Mr. Cappe on what happened to over $1 billion of taxpayer money. Opposition members questioning top civil servants on what went on is very important.

It is obviously not important to the government. It would rather see this swept under the carpet, and quickly. It is not going to be swept under the carpet.

We are going to continue to ask questions every day until we get the truth, because we do not have the truth. We are concerned and Canadians are concerned about where the money went.

Hopefully the hon. member will ask the Prime Minister to name him to the committee. Then we will see how productive he can be.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I have to comment. This is the hon. member who called the minister of health baloney a while ago, that what he thought was not realistic. I am glad the hon. member was at committee. It is the first time that I have seen him there. I have never seen him there before.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

In my home province of New Brunswick I have had the pleasure of meeting with the minister of health. The member says baloney. The minister of health certainly does not say baloney. The minister of health from the province of New Brunswick said that what the Minister of Finance budgeted in his budget for health care represented $20 million for New Brunswick. He has been reading the papers quite well. It represents three days of hospital care for New Brunswick. Will that fix the problem?

At HRDC in Ottawa they are throwing money out the window when people in Canada, sick people, the most vulnerable people, need proper health care. The government would rather throw money out the window, not discipline people for what they have done, and turn a blind eye to health care. That is terrible.

We all hear about the privatization of health care. The Liberal government is forcing the privatization of health care because of its lack of investment in it. It is even forcing people to go to other countries for care. It is terrible. All this time at HRDC we see mismanagement, lack of transparency and lack of accountability.

What exactly are Canadian taxpayers looking for today? Canadian taxpayers are looking for honesty. Canadian taxpayers are looking for transparency. Canadian taxpayers are looking for the truth. We have been trying very hard to get the truth for Canadian taxpayers but it has not been forthcoming.

We have had the Prime Minister flip-flopping in the House of Commons. We have had the minister of HRDC stating to the House and to Canadian taxpayers through the House that she knew nothing about the goings on in grants and contributions before October 15.

How can we believe this? It does not make any sense that the Minister of Human Resources Development would be unaware of what was going on in her own department. I find this absolutely incredible. We are talking about the management of programs, the management of taxpayers' money, billions of dollars worth of it, and the minister in charge does not know what is going on.

We have every right to be upset here in the House. It does not make any sense. Nobody knows what is going on, and even the minister knows nothing at all. The Liberals are more concerned about what is happening within their party. On the one hand, the finance minister is trying to become the leader of the party, and, on the other hand, the Prime Minister is trying to hang on to power.

Canadians want changes, and I can tell them that we are going to keep them informed, we will tell them what is going on in Ottawa. And what is going on here is not nice.

I am a father of two. I have a boy, who is two and a half, and a girl, who is six. What am I doing here today? What I want to do—like the majority of MPs I guess—is give our children—that is what we are living for these days, our children—a great place to live.

Looking at what is going on within the federation these days, I have a big problem, because we do not cultivate relationships any more. Nowadays, we have to contend with the arrogance of a government that fails to understand how the provinces feel, and does not listen to them. By not paying attention to what is going on, the government is putting our federation—ours, yours and that of our children—in jeopardy. What we are trying to do here is to protect that federation.

I have just come from the Standing Committee on Human Resources, whose proceedings were televised today. We heard the testimony of Mel Cappe. I had the opportunity to ask him questions. I am persistent in my questions, and I asked him if he was aware of the study. He said, as everyone on the government side has said, that he was not. That is the usual thing we hear from the government: they do not know, they are not aware of what is being done with public funds.

What have they done right from the start? They have changed nothing since they came to power in 1993. The free trade agreement and the GST were brought in by the Conservative government. The free trade agreement generates $280 billion, not $80 billion, and the GST $24 billion yearly. What are the Liberals up to? They do not know what is going on.

Mr. Cappe said he did not know. I asked him if it was not his duty to be informed. His response was no. It was not his duty to know what was going on. “It is the duty of the minister and deputy minister”, he said. If the blues are checked, it will be seen that he said “It is the duty of the Minister of Human Resources Development and Deputy Minister Claire Morris to know what is going on”. They were not aware either. That is what we were told, here in the House. So hon. members can well imagine the trouble the opposition parties have to find out the truth.

The government is out of touch. The government is arrogant, but the HRDC scandal will stick. It will not go away. I have been doing interviews across the land, across this great country, and some government members across the way must be very uncomfortable.

I am anxious to see when the Prime Minister will call the next election. I am very anxious to campaign and tell Canadians the truth of what has been going on here. The hard earned money of Canadians has been ripped off. Canadians pay heavy taxes. Canadians work hard for their money. Canadians want their money to be well invested. Their money has not been well invested. Their money has been mismanaged. It is a lot of money.

There are priorities in Canada. I have mentioned a few: health care, taking care of our sick, our most vulnerable, and education, providing the tools that our children need to compete in this global market. We have heard students from all over Canada tell us that they do not have enough. Job creation has not been going on in the government. We have noticed that the government has been wasting money by not monitoring what it has been doing.

It was a pleasure for me to share with the House and with Canadians what has been going on with HRDC. A public inquiry is certainly a vehicle that will enforce and help us get to the truth. In turn, we will be supporting the motion by my colleague from the Bloc.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

—they will say grandstanding because the government thinks that health care is secondary for Canada. Whatever the provinces say does not matter to the government. It is because of this type of attitude that we have such a problem in Canada.

The Canadian provinces urgently demanded investments in health care, and guess what? The Liberal government in Ottawa turned a blind eye and closed its ears. It is absolutely unbelievable.