Crucial Fact

  • Her favourite word was women.

Last in Parliament April 1997, as Liberal MP for Halifax (Nova Scotia)

Lost her last election, in 1997, with 22% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Employment Equity Act October 6th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. However, he may be confusing his apples with his oranges.

The member first talked about the fact that 72 per cent of the Public Service of Canada is female. That is true, but in talking about the public service-and I do this in spite of my great respect and affection for the President of the Treasury Board-we still have a way to go in ensuring that women reach higher echelons in the public service. They must be able to break through glass ceilings. The federal government has a responsibility to be an example to the private sector.

I believe that with the passage of Bill C-64 and the other projects and policies of the government we will see the federal government continuing its role as an example to the rest of the country. One of the ways it has to be an example to the rest of the country is to put its financial house in order.

I am not exactly sure where the hon. member's riding is in the province of Quebec but I can tell him that I represent the third largest public service town in Canada. The largest is of course Ottawa. The second largest is Montreal. Halifax is the third largest. I have shared with the hon. members for Dartmouth and Halifax West in excess of 30,000 employees of the federal government. With the greatest of respect to the hon. member, I do not need anyone to tell me about the problems and concerns of public servants.

With the downsizing which we all know has to be done the public servants in Halifax who are going are taking retirement packages and are finding that the federal government is dealing with them in a fair and open way. This project is moving along at an even faster rate than a number of people had thought. Thus far I have received little or no complaints from my constituents who, I can assure the hon. member, are extremely vociferous and quick to get in touch with me if there is something they are unhappy about or something they feel is not going their way.

If the hon. member is worried about public servants, perhaps he would like to come to Halifax. They would tell him that they are not quite so badly off as he might think.

Employment Equity Act October 6th, 1995

That may well be. I have spoken frequently to the hon. member for Edmonton Northwest about the amount of water he consumes in the House of Commons. I will not make any comments about the amount of air he deals with or the temperature.

However there are people in the country who suffer because the federal employment equity act does not have teeth until we pass this amendment. It cannot really be enforced. Bill C-64 brings in needed enforcement measures.

I talked about the fact that in opposition I was the vice-chair of the committee to review the employment equity legislation. We heard witnesses from all over the country. I remember in particular a group from the province of Saskatchewan that fell under federal jurisdiction and had taken to heart most seriously the whole question of employment equity.

These people very proudly showed us that their employee roster reflected the demographics where they lived and effectively the national demographics. There was probably a higher demographic percentage of aboriginal people because it was the province of Saskatchewan, but on a gender basis, disabled basis and so on, the demographics were extremely reflective of the society where they did their business. They also showed us the excellent quality of their labour relations and profit margins.

I do not understand what it is people fear from legislation that is clearly put on the books to ensure fairness for people who for generations, for thousands of years since the dawn of time have been systemically discriminated against because they are female, they are black, they are aboriginal, they are disabled, or for whatever reason under the blanket condemnation of discrimination enshrined in the charter of rights and freedoms. Why do people fear legislation that promotes fairness?

Why do people fear something which says if there are two equally qualified people and one of them comes from a disadvantaged group that it is time to give the benefit to the member of the disadvantaged group? Why is that a frightening thing? Is it because there is a lack of confidence in their own ability to succeed? Is it because there is that fear of the unknown which I spoke of earlier, the fear that someone with a different skin colour, or a female of the species, or someone who needs extra help because of a disability will surpass you and show you that in spite of the perceived disability or the perceived discrimination that person is possibly a finer or a more productive person than you are? That kind of

response is unworthy of Canadians. It is unworthy of a society that is held up as an example to the world.

All of us have unworthy thoughts. All of us have fears. We all have great trepidations about what the future will hold, not just for ourselves but for our children and for the generations to come. All of us here in the House have a particular responsibility which is to somehow get over those fears and to deal with those fears. We have to look at the larger picture of Canadian life and do our very best to legislate in a way that will benefit the largest number of Canadians.

I said at the beginning that all of us came here with an agenda, with things we wanted to see accomplished. I said that one of the things I wanted to see accomplished as a member of Parliament was a furtherance of human rights and fairness. Bill C-64 again is one of the reasons I am proud to be a member of Parliament. I support this bill and I will be delighted to see it pass.

Employment Equity Act October 6th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, one thing that makes me most proud about being a parliamentarian is the opportunity to be a part of the passage of legislation like Bill C-64.

When each one of us makes the decision to run for public office it is because we have certain agendas, certain policies we want to put forward. Seven years ago next week, when I was first nominated to run for public office, I had an agenda and I still do. That agenda has a great deal to do with human rights. It has a great deal to do with regional disparity. It has a great deal to do with feminism and it has a great deal to do with fairness. Bill C-64 is a piece of legislation that certainly fits into my agenda. It fits into one of the reasons that although I was born into the great Liberal Party I chose it again as a student in university and later when I decided to run.

There are frequently misunderstandings about the expression employment equity. For example, there are people who confuse employment equity and affirmative action. Employment equity and affirmative action, while complementary, are not the same.

I used an analogy when I spoke at report stage and I will do it again because it bears repeating. At report stage I talked about the fact that we could use a medical metaphor. Employment equity is preventive. It is a preventive measure. It ensures that we do the right thing from the beginning. Affirmative action is curative. I might add, for those people who through misunderstanding find affirmative action repugnant, that affirmative action is enshrined in the charter of rights and freedoms and as such is something Canadians have taken to most strongly, not just Canadians of this political stripe but the majority of Canadians.

Affirmative action would not be necessary if employment equity were the rule rather than the exception.

A couple of phrases and a couple of taglines have arisen throughout the debate that need to be dealt with. The one I have to talk about is the usage of two words together in the English language whenever we talk about employment equity. Those two words are competent and woman. When I hear my colleagues say a competent woman should be allowed, another word I truly love, to advance as far as anyone else, I sit here in vacant and in pensive mood and wonder why we never use those words together about competent men.

Why are we always so afraid that some woman might slip through and might not be competent? With the greatest of respect-and I have already said on several occasions in this debate how fond of men I am in general-there are some incompetent men. We have seen them and they have not suffered in the employment equity wars as have perhaps legions of competent women.

The hissy fit I just had was a little patronizing. I did it deliberately. We can argue the merits of employment equity. Certainly these expressions irritate a number of women on this side of the House-and I look at my colleagues from Oakville-Milton, Windsor-St. Clair and Etobicoke-Lakeshore-as much as they irritate me. Perhaps it is not as much as they irritate me but they certainly are irritating. Perhaps I have become more irritable in these discussions. It may be because I have been having these discussions in the Chamber longer than my three aforementioned colleagues.

Whether we are patronizing, whether women or men are competent or incompetent, whether there is a feminist agenda, whether there is a Liberal agenda-and of course there is a Liberal agenda called the red book-it is important that the bill continues the legacy of fairness. It must continue the legacy of sound social policies which have made this country the envy of the world, which have made this country the country rated number one in the United Nations survey. Everybody here knows that in their hearts, in their minds and in all their lives. It has been a great blessing for all of us either to choose to come here or to have been born here.

We enjoy longer life expectancy, higher educational levels and a greater real income than anyone else in the world. This is an outstanding record of which anyone in Canada can and should be proud. However, it is based on a history of fair legislation, human rights legislation and employment equity legislation.

It began back in the days of Sir Wilfrid Laurier. It followed through with Mackenzie King, to Louis St. Laurent, to Lester Pearson, to Pierre Trudeau and now to the current Prime Minister. It is a legacy we in the Liberal Party are justly proud of and it is one that we will continue to further.

It would be dangerous, however, to sit back, to rest on our laurels and say that because of this history Canada is somehow a perfect place. It is not a perfect place. It is not a perfect place if one belongs to a visible minority. It is not a perfect place if one is a woman. It is not a perfect place if one has a disability. It is not a perfect place if one falls under any of the prohibited heads in the charter of rights and freedoms. We know that discrimination is still a fact of life; every one of us knows it. The whole reason for discrimination is fear of the unknown, fear of people unlike us, fear that somehow people who are unlike us will take something away from us or away from our children. However there is a Canadian tradition that rises above fear.

We are only now emerging from one of the worst recessionary periods in our history. Most of us in the House of Commons belong to that amorphous mass known as the post-war baby boom. This recession was the first real attack on our very privileged lives. Many of us were lucky enough to weather it without huge injury but many of us were not.

I stood in the House on many occasions in opposition and talked about the cost in human terms of the recession. I talked about the rate of bankruptcies, the small business losses. I talked about the number of young people, both men and women, who were not getting jobs and did not have any hope.

We are recovering. We know it and we see it. It is not coming perhaps as fast as we would like but it is coming. Consequently, because Canada is coming back to its accustomed prosperity, the time has come for legislation like Bill C-64 to shore up our employment equity promises and to ensure that all Canadians have fair opportunity.

There are times when it is important to deal with questions of gender equality with a relatively light touch. Members of the female gender remind male colleagues that life is better from womb to tomb for the Lords of creation.

I said in the House the other day that in spite of the fears of some of our colleagues in opposition, white males get 50 per cent of federal government jobs. They get 60 per cent of the jobs nationally in both the private and public sector combined. Even more overwhelming, white males get 90 per cent of the promotions. With figures like that I believe it would be safe to say, and I do not think anyone would argue with me, probably the white male is not exactly an endangered species in the economic climate.

Employment Equity Act October 5th, 1995

Could I answer this?

Employment Equity Act October 5th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I have just one minor question.

As was noted by my hon. colleague, the member for Winnipeg North, one of the groups that supports this legislation and has called for this legislation and indeed has worked very closely with this government, the Department of Human Resources Development, the minister, the parliamentary secretary and others, a group with which I worked very closely on the area of employment equity when I was in opposition, is the Canadian Bankers Association.

When I list radical groups that are out there fighting for social policy and holding down the left wing in this country, the Canadian Bankers Association is not one that automatically leaps to mind. However, I want to congratulate the Canadian Bankers Association for its far-sightedness. It has had in place for a number of years, certainly as long as I have been a member of the House of Commons, employment equity groups. It has met with representatives from the various banks in this country. It has worked within its own organizations for the promotion of women, minorities, the disabled, and so on, and has done a fairly good job.

Now I would not want my friends in the banks in Canada to think that I am saying they are absolutely perfect, because they have a long way to go. There are a number of things I could suggest to them in areas of employment equity where they could make their record better. But they have certainly been very much in the forefront.

I do not question the member's 70 per cent of working mothers. What I do question is the interpretation of the statistics. I have many friends with children of varying ages, and there is no question that for women the ability to juggle domestic and professional duties is fairly severe. The superwoman syndrome is very hard to deal with. When you have small children it is particularly difficult to spend a lot of time away from them. However, it is more difficult not to provide them with the necessities of life, like food, shelter, and other things.

If the hon. member is suggesting that we tell all mothers of small children to stay home and that we therefore will increase the national debt by paying a salary to mothers who stay at home, I find that very interesting. Along with his explanation of why a group like the Canadian Bankers Association supports employment equity, I would like to know whether the Reform Party is advocating that we pay a salary out of Canadian taxpayers' dollars to mothers to stay at home to raise their children. I would also ask him how much he thinks that salary should be.

Employment Equity Act October 5th, 1995

They didn't come here to govern. We came here to govern.

Employment Equity Act October 5th, 1995

It works for me.

Employment Equity Act October 5th, 1995

I have never come in the back door in my life.

Employment Equity Act October 5th, 1995

Tell us about visible minorities.

Employment Equity Act October 5th, 1995

I am just as comfortable as I can be. You have no idea how comfortable I am.