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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was reform.

Last in Parliament April 1997, as Reform MP for Nanaimo—Cowichan (B.C.)

Won his last election, in 1993, with 40% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Supply April 18th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to address the question which is a very legitimate one.

The examples I used were just that. They were examples and were not meant to throw away the St. Boniface area of Winnipeg or the Gaspé or Aylmer or anything of the sort. It was illustrative of the sort of the territorial bilingualism that we should discuss in detail.

The critical matter, and the hon. member mentioned it, is the phrase "where numbers warrant". That is what is in the act today and that is the matter that is giving us such problems. For example we could adopt the policy of the Canadian Association of Municipalities which puts a number on it. It says either 10 per cent or 5 per cent and one can go from there. If the phrase "where numbers warrant" is inadequate, let us put numbers on it and let us collectively agree where we will provide minority language rights.

Supply April 18th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, it is very hard for me to explain why francophones' standard of living is falling; I am not an economist and I do not know the reason. It is all a question of money.

Perhaps it is because our economy is in decline and in a very precarious situation now. Foreign governments look at the situation in Canada and think that there is probably a problem between Quebec and the rest of Canada. Also, Quebec is considered to be too hard on anglophones. A lot of money is going out now, the economy is suffering and Quebec too, I suppose.

That is all I can give as an explanation for that question.

Supply April 18th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I find that really sad. It is damn sad. Right at the beginning, I tried to explain it to people, but they have to listen. I said what we are proposing. Obviously, some members did not listen at all and then they attack me, saying that I want to destroy Canada. That is an insult. I must also say that it is awful, what they are saying to the effect that I am attacking the French language. That is false.

I challenge you, Mr. Speaker, and those who did not hear what I said to find those words. When you read Hansard tomorrow, or even the blues this afternoon, you will see that we are making an effort to keep Canada united, to preserve the rights of francophones and the rights of anglophones in Quebec. We want everyone to keep their rights, but we do not want it to cost us too much.

Supply April 18th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I will try mightily to do that.

Let us collectively look at history and ask how we can improve things. In 1608 New France was founded by Champlain. In 1752 Acadia was conquered by the British and therein was the first and most horrid example of linguistic intolerance. As soon as the Brits conquered Acadia they kicked out all the Acadians. They said: "We do not need your language. We do not need you-out". That is the worse case we have had. Maybe in one sense historically we have improved things, at least from that point.

In 1759 New France was conquered. By the standards of that day, the Brits really made some improvement. They said: "Fine, there will be a tolerance not only of the French language but of the religion". Let us remember in historical perspective that religion has been part of the language equation.

Moving on to 1774, we had the Quebec Act which confirmed the rights of French-speaking people and catholics. In 1791 we had the constitutional act which created a legislature for Lower Canada. Because French became the language of legislation, francophones essentially became politically active for the first time.

Between 1820 and 1840 we started to have problems again. The rapidly rising English-speaking minority worried the French dominated assembly in Lower Canada. As a result, they adopted a series of intolerant laws regarding the districts and the eastern townships, denied them representation and invoked a head tax on immigrants from Britain.

Between 1837 and 1838 we had real problems, including a bit of open rebellion and almost warfare. It is important to note that from 1840 to 1880, as the proportion of English speaking and French speaking people balanced, people felt a little more secure. Things quietened down nicely in those 40 years up to 1880.

It allowed the British North America Act to be passed in 1867. So quiet were things that the BNA Act was hardly mentioned at all. People were comfortable with it. It did of course guarantee in section 133 that both languages would be used in Parliament, the Quebec legislature and in laws.

I am trying to paint a picture of the see-saw of what has been happening in Canada and the emotions that went with it. From 1880 to 1920, the proportion of French speaking people in Canada and catholics-we might as well put in-started to rise thus sparking fears in English Canada and among the protestants that their status would be reduced to a minority position.

As a result, one province after another adopted laws that were restrictive of the educational rights of francophones and catholics; New Brunswick in 1871, P.E.I. in 1874, Manitoba in 1890 and again in 1916 and Ontario in 1912. Here we can speak with shame. Regulation 17 in 1912 was the most restrictive educational law in Canadian history. It made it unlawful for any francophone child to be educated in his own language beyond grade three. That is bad news but it illustrates that pendulum swing.

Where were we after that? From 1920 to 1960, once again that stability was achieved. There was stability in the language environment. What did we see in Quebec in 1963? We saw rising nationalism. All right? There is going to be a reaction to that. Lester Pearson therefore established the royal commission on bilingualism, the B and B commission. It filed six volumes up until the year 1971.

That commission endorsed territorial bilingualism which I will address in detail in a few minutes. Territorial bilingualism is really a compromise between the territorial principle and the personality principle. Incidentally the findings of that commission were essentially compatible with Reform principles as we espouse them officially today.

The spirit of thought of that commission is in this quote: "A bilingual country is not one where all inhabitants necessarily have to speak two languages. Rather it is a country where all principal public and private institutions must provide service in two languages to citizens, the majority of whom may very well be unilingual". Think on that. It is not bad.

In 1969 the first Official Languages Act was passed. That is what we are critiquing today. Twenty-five years later there is unhappiness with it.

This Official Languages Act favours the personality principle in which individual minority language rights are to be extended as widely as is politically feasible with the result that onerous obligation to respect these rights are placed on the majority populations and, of course, particularly on taxpayers.

It is clear that in passing that act Pierre Trudeau did what he believed to be a just and generous gesture. He repeatedly states that the law's goals of justice and national unity are inseparable. One can understand that. But Trudeau's technocratic view of society is also built into the act, one of its key features being the creation of a supreme language bureaucrat, the Commissioner of Official Languages. That was 1969.

In 1972 Quebec, fearful that its French language was in decline, said it had better pass a law. That was bill 22, the Official Language Act for Quebec.

In 1977 the Levesque government passed bill 101. These are now getting to be famous or infamous in this country, bill 22 and bill 101.

We go from there to 1982. This is a very important date as well in that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms gave recourse to those offended by bill 22 and bill 101 and allowed them to appeal the injustice, shall we call it that, of the Quebec legislation.

In 1988, finally the Mulroney government rescinded the old Official Languages Act and introduced a new one, the current one, which somewhat extends the scope of official bilingualism and in fact perhaps to too great a degree.

I would like now to define territorial bilingualism because this is really what we are talking about here. It is a compromise position between the legitimate desires and concerns of linguistic minorities and the legitimate concerns of linguistic majorities. It is one of four distinct and clearly articulated philosophies designed to bring justice to the matter of language policy.

These policies are, first, the personality principle. This is really the one championed by Pierre Trudeau. He believed that the key to a just system is that all individuals wherever they might be located in the country have the right to communicate and receive services from the government in their preferred official language. That is what we are trying to put in place in Canada today. We say it is not working and cannot be afforded.

The next principle is the territorial principle which should not be confused with territorial bilingualism which we will come to.

The territorial principle holds that language rights should be territorial and non-portable in nature. In the case of Canada it means that everyone living in Quebec should be expected to live and work in French and everyone in the other nine provinces should be expected to live and work in English.

This principle has been successfully implemented in Switzerland but it will not work in Canada because our minority populations in Quebec, New Brunswick and Ontario are so much larger than in Switzerland.

Next we hit territorial bilingualism, not the territorial principle but territorial bilingualism. As I said, it was first proposed by the royal commission on B and B, since adopted by the Reform Party. It is essentially a compromise between the extremes of territorial and personality principles.

Under this model, language rights and minority language services would be extended only to those minorities large enough to survive over the long term. Smaller minorities would not receive full rights on the basis that the burden imposed on the majority population, which has to foot the bill for all of this, outweighs the benefit being received by the minority.

This model has been successfully employed in Finland in dealing with its Swedish-speaking minority. If practised in Canada the model would extend full minority language rights to the large francophone communities in eastern and northeastern Ontario, to the Acadians of New Brunswick, as well as to the anglophone community of west end Montreal. The rest of the country would be unilingual.

The fourth principle or style of language policy is what we might call asymmetrical bilingualism advocated by the Bloc Quebecois which calls for full and generous language rights to be extended to francophones living outside Quebec and very few rights to be extended to anglophones living inside Quebec.

The logic of this asymmetry is that French is in danger of extinction in Canada and can only survive on an equal footing with English if it receives preferential legal treatment. Most English Canadians find it unbelievable that someone would actually advocate such a position. Nonetheless, it is genuinely believed by many to be the only true and just language policy.

There we are. We have a situation that has hurt Canada and that we must collectively address. I leave it to this House to listen closely to the ensuing speakers. Be critical of yourselves, be critical of us, but at the same time be positive. What can we do to be just and furnish proper services to everyone across the country where the numbers warrant? Where numbers warrant is a little buzz phrase that is fought with difficulty. I think on that one we have to get down to brass tacks and put numbers on it and say: "This is where the numbers warrant and this is what we can afford or we cannot afford".

We must address all those points. I would ask the House to think in positive terms as we go through the speeches that follow. We must think about our history which I have gone to some length to expand. It really has been a back and a forth. One group gets stronger and the other group gets afraid and starts putting in restrictive legislation. This is not good news. Let us try and balance it out and be together.

That is all, Mr. Speaker. I would ask everyone, you and others, to consider seriously the adoption of this motion to amend the official languages to reflect the philosophy of territorial bilingualism.

Supply April 18th, 1994

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should:

(a) amend the Official Languages Act to reflect the philosophy of "territorial bilingualism", which holds that French should be the predominant language of Quebec and English the predominant language of the other provinces, and that federal government services should be available to official language minorities in their own language in any part of the country where there is demonstrable local public demand;

(b) continue to facilitate the use of English or French in the debates and other proceedings of Parliament, in the records and journals of Parliament, in federal courts, and as the languages of federal legislation; and

(c) refrain from expending monies on those aspects of language which fall under the sole jurisdiction of the provinces.

Mr. Speaker, in making this motion, before we get started I would really like to get the attention of everyone whose minds are already made up.

There will be a lot of automation out there saying if a Reformer is getting up and talking on the Official Languages Act it has to be bad. The Official Languages Act is not working well. Whether one favours it and carte blanche says it has to be good or whether one says maybe it really should be changed, please give a listen to what we are going to say here. Do not prejudge it. Let us go along with the lines of what is good for Canada and what is good for Canadians.

My basic premise here today is that the Official Languages Act has not been working well. It is divisive for us as a country and it is too expensive. It is not just this member for Nanaimo-Cowichan saying so, each and every commissioner has had problems with it. So has the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism. So have people across the country. So has the Bloc Quebecois and so have les gens de Québec, ainsi que les gens de la Colombie-Britannique. We have all had problems with it. What are we going to do about it?

Listen to the debate this afternoon and as you are doing so I ask you to please put your own minds in gear and ask how we can do it better.

Let us go back in history and I hope to paint you the picture-

Budget Implementation Act, 1994 April 14th, 1994

I do not say hear, hear. We have been looking into it for 15 years, 10 that the commissioner has put it on record. Where are we? The commissioners have advocated eliminating the bilingual bonus, not reviewing it again and

again. I put the Prime Minister's response equally with the response that I received a few weeks ago from the Minister of Human Resources Development to another question, and I will repeat that.

The response that I get from the Prime Minister and his other minister is, I am afraid to say, irresponsible. It is too vacuous for the circumstances.

There are millions of Canadians out there who are waiting for some sign from the government that the government is serious about its word on cutting back on its spending and getting hold of the deficit, waving the red book.

This is not good enough. We have a tangible right here recommended by the Commissioner of Official Languages saying we can save $51 million in one year alone on this and the government says it will look at it.

I brought up the case in the House of a new government information centre being opened in May in Bathurst, New Brunswick. I suggested to the minister of human resources that instead of employing 65 fully bilingual people at that centre he would give better service and save money in the bargain by employing essentially unilingual people.

The minister did not respond, in my view, properly. He attacked me rather than coping with the problem or taking it as a suggestion well meant. He said instead: "You are lucky that you have a touch-tone phone and are you not privileged". His response I put with the Prime Minister's two days ago. This is part of the problem, I am afraid, that we have not just in this Parliament but in the running of the country. If we cannot stand here as part of the opposition and honestly put forward some ideas that we feel are of merit and have those ideas received in kind then where are we? It is small wonder that the electorate out there is unhappy.

Before we talk a little more on cuts, to shortcut any vehement attack on me or the Reform Party I am going to reiterate that the Reform Party is not against bilingualism. We encourage bilingualism.

We encourage everyone to speak French if possible.

Having said that, we are against waste. Let us give bilingual services where they are required but let us also protect the anglophone minority in the province of Quebec at the same time.

In the meantime, let us make cuts and cuts are indeed possible. Let me give a few proposed cuts on the official languages program. This is for one year. If we were to cut one-third of the transfers to provinces for education we would save $80 million in a year. We propose this on the basis that education is a provincial responsibility.

If we also take from the Department of Canadian Heritage transfers to the provinces for special interest advocacy groups for promotion we would save $41 million. If we were to take from the CBC second language broadcasting budget, eliminate it totally, because that service should be market driven rather than driven by Ottawa, we would save $80 million. If we would cut out advertising in minority language newspapers we would save $5 million. If we cut from Canadian Heritage the bilingual bonus we have already mentioned, we would save $50 million to $51 million. On second language training and salaries for replacement workers we would save another $50 million. The total annual savings are $306 million to $307 million. It can be done. Would the government please look at it and do something about it. Do not just study it again.

I will make my concluding remarks short. I implore the government and everyone else to join with us, re-examine the Official Languages Act and look at specific things like bilingual bonuses. We can save money, be more efficient and be happier as a country.

Budget Implementation Act, 1994 April 14th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, while Bill C-17 contains a good number of proposed amendments to statutes with which the Reform Party agrees, we find that the bill covers so many disparate areas that it is very hard to deal with it. It was for that reason that Reform asked the Speaker for a ruling on its status as a bill.

In any event, to the extent that the theme of Bill C-17 is to restrain government spending, we totally agree. Since it is so wide ranging I would like to seize one little area of government spending to prove that the government not only should but could cut back on its spending.

I would like to delve into the area of official languages and the cost of official languages. More specifically I would like to address the issue of bilingual bonuses.

The 1983 annual report from the Commissioner of Official Languages states: "Six years and let us say almost a quarter of a billion dollars into the game any question of the real contribution that the bilingualism bonus might be making to federal language programs has been pretty much lost from view". That is from 1983.

Two days ago in the House was tabled the 1993 report of the Commissioner of Official Languages. Allow me to read very briefly from that: "Unfortunately with regard to the issue of bilingual bonus it is obvious that the commissioner's repeated recommendations still have not been followed. This year approximately $50 million was once again spent without any assurance that the payment of such a sum was necessary to ensure Canadians of the availability of quality service in the official language of their choice. Given the present economic circumstances we are more than ever convinced that the bilingualism bonus should be eliminated gradually by negotiating with the parties concerned. In the interest of public finances, as much as that of the official languages program, it is high time for the government to take this problem in hand".

What does the government need to get the idea that it should take things in hand? I stood in the House two days ago and read from the same report to the Prime Minister. I asked him in effect what his government will do about these continued recommendations on the part of the Commissioner of Official Languages. The Prime Minister's response to me two days ago was: "I do not think that the commissioner has made a strong recommendation. He has recommended we look into that and we will look into that".

Official Languages April 12th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Prime Minister might explain if any decision to act in this long overdue area will result in the cancellation of tens of millions of dollars in retroactive bilingualism bonus payments to the RCMP?

Official Languages April 12th, 1994

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Today the 1993 annual report from the Commissioner of Official Languages was tabled in the House. In his report Victor Goldbloom states: "Given the present economic circumstances, we are more convinced than ever that the bilingualism bonus should be eliminated". Last year those bonus payments cost taxpayers nearly $51 million. Increased budgetary expenditures as opposed to the government's stated intent of deficit reduction sends out a mixed signal.

Will the Prime Minister follow the commissioner's strong recommendation to eliminate bilingualism bonuses, thus assuring tax weary Canadians his government is serious about deficit reduction?

Aluminium Industry March 22nd, 1994

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask a supplementary question. Does the minister not agree that the markets normally control excess production through spending cuts or plant closures? Is the minister implying, by predicting a better balance between supply and demand, that we can expect more cuts and layoffs in the Canadian aluminium industry?