Glenn Thibeault

[Petitions, February 13th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise today in the House to present petitions from a few hundred Canadians who are upset with Canada Post's decision to axe good jobs and home delivery, and the cost of stamps. They are asking the government to reverse these cuts to services that were recently announced and to look at ways to modernize operations instead.

[Air Transportation, February 10th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at a problem that is facing Canadians that the Conservative government will not tackle.

According to the Canadian Transportation Agency, complaints against Canadian airlines are up, way up. Overbooking, poor communication, and flight disruptions, the details are enough to make anyone angry.

The government promised to put consumers first, but actions speak louder than words. When will the government stand up for travellers and finally introduce an air passengers' bill of rights?

[Jean Hanson, February 4th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today with a heavy heart, but I am honoured to pay tribute to a pillar of my community, Jean Hanson, who lost her second battle with cancer yesterday at the Maison Vale Hospice in Sudbury.

A pioneer in her field, Jean was the first female director of education for the Rainbow District School Board. Truly, her work as an advocate for children and her 40 years of public service bear witness to her commitment to a quality education for all. Jean was also a long-time community activist who worked tirelessly to improve the lives of our community's less fortunate and most vulnerable citizens.

I had the honour to work with her at the United Way/Centraide Sudbury and Nipissing districts, where she was a tireless advocate. Through her commitment to mental health issues, through her efforts with the Canadian Mental Health Association, her dedication to activism was evident.

Jean's legacy in our community will not soon be forgotten. On behalf of all Sudburians and all parliamentarians, I offer condolences to Jean's family and colleagues. I thank Jean. Her contributions to my community will be missed.

[Business of Supply, February 3rd, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his well-presented speech. While I did not agree with everything that was in there, I do agree with him when it comes to financial literacy. As parliamentarians, we can do a better job at ensuring that Canadians are well informed of the importance of financial literacy.

He talked about some of his concerns relating to the language that we used in our motion. Part of it was that he did not like the word “uncompetitive”. While I can respect the opinion, I disagree with it. If we look at what we have out there from all of the financial institutions, almost every one of them is charging the same amount, between $2 and $4. That is anti-competitive. It truly is. There is no competitive practice. If some financial institution were to say that it would charge 50¢, we would see more Canadians looking at that.

I can provide a perfect example. We have had a debate in the House on credit card merchant fees or swipe fees. Mastercard was at 1.85%, for example. I stood right here and asked the Minister of Finance why we were allowing Visa to raise its rates. Visa responded that it was matching that of Mastercard. The rates went up.

We have not seen the banks say that because the ATM fees are costing Canadians millions of dollars, maybe they should lower the rates. It is time for us to act as parliamentarians. This is anti-competitive. There are no lower rates. If people have a chequing account at a bank, they will receive 20 transactions free, after which they will be charged for them.

I would encourage my hon. colleague to look at his bank account.

[Business of Supply, February 3rd, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his speech and for bringing up a very important point. What we are seeing in many northern and rural communities, like mine of Sudbury, a city of approximately 170,000 people, which is not small, is that the banks are shutting down branches and laying off all of the tellers. For people who relied on going to their community banks, that has now disappeared.

What has been put in place are the ATMs. These ATM fees are actually having a significant impact on savings. If we look at the average cost of what Canadians are spending on accessing their own money through their own bank, it is approximately $500 to $1,000 per year.

When banks start closing branches, like they are doing in my colleague's riding, they cannot just put in an ATM and say it is the same service. I would like to hear my hon. colleague's comments related to that, how it is actually less service but more cost.

[Business of Supply, February 3rd, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, relating to the comments made earlier by my colleague from the Liberal Party, he forgets that it was his government that actually cut the consumer affairs ministry back in the 1990s. He also forgets and did not ask the question that relates to the very specifics of the provincial jurisdiction.

We are making sure we would lead by example at the federal level. However, the member is not recognizing that the banks are cutting branches in rural locations and small cities and putting in ATMs. This is forcing people to utilize ATMs rather than go to their banks.

One of the member's hon. colleagues talked about people being lazy. What about the disabled? What about seniors?

I would like to hear comments from my colleague that folks are not lazy but they are tired of Conservatives and Liberals forgetting about consumers and not addressing the important issues they are talking about each and every day.

[Business of Supply, February 3rd, 2014]

I will address my answer through you, Mr. Speaker, and hopefully we can set an example moving forward.

The question relates again to the specific ATMs that are owned by John Smith or Mary Smith who has a convenience store. That is provincial regulation. I am hoping that what we can do today, to answer through you, Mr. Speaker, my hon. member's question, is to lead by example. We have an opportunity to ensure that our banks do not continue to gouge Canadians. When there are record profits of $29.4 billion going to the banks, it is being done on the backs of hard-working Canadian families.

The one thing we are saying very clearly is that we understand that the banks need to make a profit, that the banks need to recoup their costs, that the banks need to make money to service this network. That is being addressed by folks in the United States. Senator Durbin in the U.S. prepared a great report, 36¢ per transaction. We should talk to stakeholders here in Canada. If we are similar, we should be able to have it capped at 50¢ per transaction, which would still allow the banks to do what they need to do and keep more money in the pockets of Canadian consumers so they can invest in their families and communities.

[Business of Supply, February 3rd, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, I am more than happy to answer as best I can.

The first thing I need to make clear is that what we are talking about here today are the ATMs that are operated by our federally regulated financial institutions, the chartered banks. The ATMs that are privately owned in pubs or corner stores are in provincial jurisdiction. What we are talking about specifically are the financial institutions.

I have an account at a specific bank here in Canada, as most Canadians do, or a credit union, and I pay a monthly fee. I am going to make this number up. Say I pay $14.95 and I have 20 transactions that will I not be charged for. Once I go over that limit, even though I am using the same bank, the one that I am a member of, I get what is called a regular maintenance fee. The banks eliminate what they call a foreign fee. The foreign fee is actually a convenience fee, which is charged when using another bank's ATM. Then I have to pay a dollar for that, plus pay the other bank two bucks. It is starting to skyrocket out of control because it is unregulated. We need to hamper this and that is what this bill and motion are talking about today.

[Business of Supply, February 3rd, 2014]

moved:

That, in the opinion of the House, Canadian consumers face unfair Automated Teller Machine (ATM) fees as a result of an uncompetitive marketplace and that the House call on the government to take action in Budget 2014 to protect consumers by limiting ATM fees.

Mr. Speaker, before I begin, it is important to inform you that I am splitting my time with the fantastic MP from Québec.

I am pleased to rise in the House today to speak to my motion, the NDP-sponsored motion calling on the Minister of Finance to announce action in budget 2014 to protect consumers by limiting ATM fees.

From my great riding of Sudbury to St. John's, from Val-d'Or to Victoria, every Canadian has at some point stood in front of an ATM in stunned silence staring at the screen showing just how much they have been gouged for taking out cash from their very own bank account.

Canadians are angry, and rightly so, that their families are being nickelled and dimed by banks reaping record-breaking profits while they struggle to put food on the table and pay for the other necessities of life.

According to the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, withdrawal fees can cost consumers as much as $5.90 per transaction at a bank-operated ATM. If we contrast the cost being forced down the throats of Canadian consumers with those being charged to consumers in other developed countries, it makes the cost of using an ATM in Canada even more unsettling.

For instance, in many European Union countries, withdrawals from ATMs are free. In the U.K., 97% of transactions are free of cost. In fact, a report from the British Bankers' Association comparing its banking system to those of ten other developed nations found that Canada had the highest fees for ATM withdrawals from their own bank.

This raises the question of why people in the U.K. and Europe get a break from their banks while ordinary Canadians continue to get gouged. Although estimates range, analysts agree that Canadians pay somewhere in the range of $400 million a year for the privilege of using ATMs, representing nearly 5% of the revenue of the biggest banks in Canada.

Thus, it is not surprising that Canadian banks are reaping record profits, amounting to $29.4 billion in 2013, up 5% from last year despite the weak economy, because they are doing it on the backs of hard-working Canadian families.

How did we enter this cycle of ever-increasing fees? Surcharging on ATM withdrawals have become standard operating procedure for Canada's banks since 1996, when the ban on surcharges was lifted following a ruling by Canada's Competition Bureau. In 2000, many banks began adding a new convenience fee in addition to their Interac fees for those consumers who use an ATM owned by a different institution or operator. This has led to ATM use becoming more and more expensive.

The most shocking part of ATM fees is that on average the real cost of processing a transaction today is estimated to be around 36¢. Where does the rest of the money go? We know that 0.7¢ goes to offsetting the cost of operating Canada's world-leading, not-for-profit Interac network. While there is obviously a cost to operating and maintaining these terminals themselves, the rest is going to pad the profits of the big banks, the big card networks, and independent machine owners.

Currently, there is no limit on what the operator of an ATM can charge a consumer for using their machine. This is unfair, and it is a policy we as parliamentarians must address head on. These fees are rip-offs, plain and simple, and the government has the power to act immediately to drive down the cost of ATM fees.

Some of my colleagues on the other side of the House may think that $2, for example, is not a burdensome cost for Canadians, but here is the unfair thing about it. When the average person going to an ATM machine takes out $20 or $50 to get them through a day or two, that person is charged $2.50 for accessing that money, yet someone else may withdraw $500, and they pay the same $2.50. This means that the financial burden of ATM fees falls disproportionately on low-income Canadians, and that is grossly unfair.

That is why groups such as the Public Interest Advocacy Centre, Option consommateurs, and ACORN support the NDP call to cap ATM fees.

At one point, the Minister of Finance seemed receptive to the idea of limiting these outrageous ATM fees. In 2007, in response to the NDP campaign to ban ATM fees, the minister told the House of Commons finance committee that the government agreed with the NDP that the banks ought to do something for consumers with respect to ATM fees and to try harder. However, in the end, after talking to the banks, the minister climbed down, and no action was taken to protect consumers from these outrageous fees.

Now, because of the minister's lack of action, ATM fees continue to rise for lower-income Canadians such as seniors, students, and persons with disabilities, for whom the minister expressed particular concern.

While the Conservatives talk a big game about the importance of protecting consumers from the most abusive practices of Canada's largest corporations, their failure to crack down on ATM fees and the plethora of other consumer abuses undermines this claim. Here is an opportunity for the Conservatives to prove they are serious and actually do something tangible for consumers. A failure to do so will make the government's priorities clear: Bay Street over Main Street.

The minister's friends at the banks will argue that capping ATM fees would significantly decrease the number of ATMs that banks offer to Canadians. However, according to the World Bank, Canada has the highest number of ATMs per capita in the world, with 204 ATMs for every 100,000 people. The OECD average is 74 ATMs per 100,000 people. However, if we think about the cost that Canadians have to endure every time they use an ATM, it is no wonder the banks have so many of these ATMs out there.

Moreover, the banks claim that the ATM fees must be high enough to cover all chequing account-related costs. That is undermined by the fact that banks also charge many other high consumer fees under the premise of covering those exact same costs. Canada's banks charge consumers scores of other fees for maintaining and accessing funds in their chequing accounts. There are monthly fees, overdraft fees, failed payment fees, fees for failing to maintain a minimum balance, e-transfer fees, and many more.

Given that banks are already recouping their costs through these other fees, the NDP's call for a 50¢ per transaction cap for ATM fees seems entirely reasonable. With a cost of 36¢ per transaction to the bank, this would still give them the ability to recoup their operating costs while maintaining a healthy profit margin. It would also restore a sense of fairness and balance to what is truly an asymmetrical relationship between consumers and their bank.

The Conservatives claim to be on the side of consumers, but time and time again this Conservative government, like the Liberals before them, has sided with the big banks by refusing to crack down on excessive bank fees. New Democrats have put forward a practical solution that would restore a certain amount of fairness to the relationship between consumers, their families, and the banks. By supporting the motion and including a provision to limit ATM fees in the upcoming budget, the government has an opportunity to help hard-working Canadian families who are already overburdened by household debt and are struggling to maintain their way of life.

I conclude that a failure to do so will demonstrate that hard-working Canadians cannot trust the Conservative government to do what is best for them and their families. We need experienced leadership that puts Canadians, not bank profits, first. Canadians deserve better.

[Consumer Protection, January 30th, 2014]

Mr. Speaker, the minister seems to confuse tax credits and tax cuts, but maybe he knows who he is.

Canadians are struggling to make ends meet. While the Conservative government ignores them, they are forced to rely on credit cards to help pay the bills, cover emergency expenses, and put food on the table.

On average, Canadians carry a $3,500 balance on a credit card each month, but the Conservatives have allowed banks to charge excessive interest rates, some as high as a whopping 29.9%. Canadians deserve better.

When are the Conservatives going to stop the gouging and protect Canadian consumers?