Kyle Seeback

[Bill Bettridge, November 28th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, I and the people of Brampton were saddened to learn of the passing of local hero and World War II veteran, Bill “Boots” Bettridge. I have known the Bettridge family my entire life and I offer them my condolences.

Bill will truly be missed in Brampton. He was one of our most decorated veterans and he is the model for the carving of the veteran statue in Gage Park. Bill was a survivor of the D-Day landings in Normandy, part of Operation Overlord. He landed on the shores of France on June 6, 1944 with thousands of young Canadian soldiers charged with liberating Europe from Nazi occupation.

Bill was also a recipient, in 2008, of the Minister of Veterans Affairs Commendation. He actively promoted veterans' interests in the Royal Canadian Legion and the community. He used his experience and stories to inspire young people to gain a better understanding of veterans.

Bill was a great man who will be missed; missed but not forgotten. Lest we forget.

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 27th, 2012]

Our expenses are published.

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 27th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, I was encouraged to hear my colleague's speech outline the importance of the legislation. I hear comments continuously from opposition members stating that our government is not transparent and asking how then we can talk about transparency. What those questions show is a complete misunderstanding of this particular piece of legislation. This legislation would publish the salaries and remuneration of chiefs and councils. We do that here in the House, so to say there is a comparison is absolutely false.

Those members also talk about this being some kind of higher standard. Perhaps my friend could comment on whether this piece of legislation would place standards on first nation governments that would be any different from the standards on the federal government.

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 27th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague seemed to be alluding to the fact that Chief Bear is somewhat in the dark on the legislation. That is just not the truth. We did extensive consultation, including in the previous incarnation of this legislation by the member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar. The two concerns that were raised by Chief Bear about separating out certain types of expenses have been addressed in the bill. When the member talks about some kind of lack of transparency that is just not the truth. Chief Bear is now fully supportive of the legislation.

The member was at committee and she heard from individual members who begged our government to do something because when they ask for remuneration from their band council, there is sometimes threats and intimidation. What does my colleague have to say to members of the community who are begging for this legislation, when she is opposing it? How is she going to help them?

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 27th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his speech. He knows the issue in depth.

We keep hearing about a couple of things, and “non-consultation” seems to be the mantra from the New Democrats. However, there was significant consultation in the genesis of this legislation, which was from the member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar.

More importantly, what we forget are the people who came to committee to testify about this legislation. Could the member comment on why individual first nations members came to the committee to say why this legislation is so important?

[Petitions, November 26th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, I have the pleasure of presenting a petition today on behalf of members of CrossPoint Christian Reformed Church in my riding of Brampton West. They are calling on the government to condemn discrimination against girls through sex selective abortions and to do all it can to prevent sex selective abortions from being carried out in Canada.

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 20th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, if first nations are already doing all of this, then their number one argument that this is such a burden has now evaporated. Number two, why do they not post the information? That is what this legislation would do. They should deliver it to their members, not just to AANDC.

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 20th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, the amazing thing I have experienced, after being here for only a little over a year and a half, is how members of the Liberal Party seem to have all the answers now that they are not the government. They could have fixed everything if they had only had one or two more years, or another month. That is all they needed in order to solve all the nation's problems. They had all these great ideas. It is amazing. In 13 years they could not do these things but suddenly they have all the answers.

My colleague makes the very important point that transparency leads to good government. A fundamental part of transparency for first nations members is understanding their community's financial situation. How do we know how our government is doing if we do not know how any of the money is being spent? We in Ottawa have that accountability. We have the Parliamentary Budget Officer. We release a budget. We study the estimates in every department. This leads to good government.

That is what we are looking for in our first nations communities. We want a good level of transparency so they can deliver good government. If they are not delivering good government, the people will now know. They will have the wherewithal to understand the financial status of their community and decide they may need to make a change if things are not being run properly. That is exactly what this legislation is for.

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 20th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps my colleague did not hear me at the start when I said that if one has the law on one's side, one should argue the law. If one has the facts on one's side, one should argue the facts. If one does not, one should bang one's fist on the table and shout.

The member cannot even ask a question on the legislation before us. He has abandoned all hope of opposing it because he know it is the right thing to do. What does he talk about? He makes some vague reference to non-accountability.

Mr. Speaker, your salary is posted. It is public, disclosed, as is mine. That is not what is happening on every first nation. If the member had taken the time to look at the legislation before he asked the question, he would know that is what it is about. Financial transparency is not happening, which is why we have put this legislation forward.

[First Nations Financial Transparency Act, November 20th, 2012]

Mr. Speaker, I have been listening this morning to the debate on the motions brought forward by the NDP members. I am surprised they are trying to delete the important accountability clauses that are contained within the legislation. I am not surprised at the Liberal Party, which goes further. It wants to delete every single clause in the bill. Accountability and the Liberal Party generally do not go hand in hand.

When I went to law school, we were told an old joke. It was: “If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you don't the facts and don't have the law, bang your hand on the table and shout louder”. That is what we are hearing from both of the opposition parties today. They do not have the law on their side, they do not have the facts on their side, so they bang their fists on the desk and argue about process. That is what they are left with.

They are going to say there was not enough consultation. That is not true. They know it is not true. In fact, the great member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar had extensive consultation on her Bill C-575. It was through the consultation with first nations that she brought forward the first incarnation of this legislation on financial transparency. There has been extensive consultation on this legislation.

In fact, it is first nations that want this to happen. I sat in committee and heard the stories from members of our first nations who said that when they had asked for information, it was not produced and they had been subject to intimidation and threats just for asking for the information. That is not acceptable.

By deleting clause 11, which is one of the proposals by the NDP, we would remove a very significant piece of accountability that is in the legislation. Section 11 states:

If a First Nation fails to publish any document under section 8, any person, including the Minister, may apply to a superior court for an order requiring the council to carry out the duties under that section within the period specified by the court.

How can anyone be opposed to that? It is an accountability mechanism that will be there for first nations in order to compel their council to produce information. How is someone against that? If a council is not publishing the salaries and remuneration of chiefs and councils and there is a mechanism here that is going to help them get that information, how can people in that small corner of the House stand and say that they are against it? I do not understand. The purpose of the clause is to ensure that anyone could require a first nation to publish this information. It provides an avenue of redress for first nations.

We have also heard that many first nations have made complaints directly to the minister. The opposition parties say that is a perfect system, that they should just make the complaint to the minister and have the minister answer that question. That is not about transparency or accountability. The accountability has to come from the first nation itself, and a lot do it. I do not want to be accused of standing and saying that none of our first nations communities provide this information. That is not true. Many of them do a fantastic job of providing the information to their members and being accountable to their members for the money that is spent. That is not what the legislation is designed to get at. There are some members, some communities, that are not providing this information and that is what the legislation targets.

First nations residents deserve and expect transparency and accountability from their elected representatives when it comes to these issues. In fact, in December 2010 the Assembly of First Nations passed a resolution at its special chiefs assembly, affirming the need to publicly disclose salaries and expenses to their members. They also agreed to make this financial information available on the Internet, where applicable. Nearly two years later, just over half of the more than 600 first nations have a website. Of those that have a website, less than 20 had posted their salary and remuneration on the website and on the Internet.

This proves in and of itself that voluntary compliance is not the answer. We also know that complaining to the minister is not the answer. We want to give the power back to first nations community members to get this information so they do not have to go down those roads. Bill C-27, the first nations financial transparency act, would guarantee that all first nations members would be able to hold their elected governments to account.

In addition to the informal requests from the members to the minister to get the information, the department also receives formal complaints regarding the potential mismanagement or misappropriation of band funds and remuneration of officials. This legislation would ensure that the information would be easily accessible to everyone and it would remove the minister from the equation in many of these cases. That would promote direct lines of communication and accountability from first nation leaders to its members because it would take the minister out of the equation. It should not be a triangular approach where a first nation member complains to the minister's office, which then goes down and asks the first nation to produce it and the first nation then moves it across to the member. It should be a direct approach from a member directly to band council.

I want to make this clear as well. This is not to suggest that first nations are mismanaging their finances or are not accountable to their members because in many cases there are many examples of first nations that are doing exactly that. With the greater transparency that is offered here, many of the complaints to the minister would actually not continue because they would have the necessary information.

I listened to the member for Nanaimo—Cowichan. She suggested that producing a financial statement was not the answer because it would not state how many houses were built or what progress was made on the school, and that is true. The financial statement will not say that. However, imagine trying to understand what is happening with the finances in a community without the financial statement, the salary, remuneration and benefits of the chief and council. It is a logic first step. Once people have the financial statement and know the remuneration, they can question where all the money went. For instance, if all this money had been received, why were houses not built?

It is false for the New Democrats to suggest that this is not the answer. It is the first logical step toward putting the power back into the hands of the people. That is what good accountable government is all about. We have that kind of accountability at the federal level. Our public finances are absolutely disclosed. Individuals can make all kinds of requests for information. However, that is not what is happening with our first nations.

I am proud to stand today in support of this legislation, not only because it is good legislation but because I personally heard the stories at committee of community members saying that enough was enough, that they needed help and they needed the problem solved.