Veterans Affairs committee  That's a loaded question, but fair enough. Regarding the mentally damaged veterans, that issue--I believe I'm right in saying--is under appeal, is it not?

Veterans Affairs committee  So if we brought an ombudsman on, he's certainly not going to get involved with the court process.

Veterans Affairs committee  Whether he could deal with something, going back to your earlier example, sir, where you were talking about Agent Orange, which in fact is still in the working stage, that would be a different matter, but I think once the courts take over too many hands are tied. That's the purview of a public inquiry, isn't it, or a parliamentary inquiry maybe.

Veterans Affairs committee  I would just say, going back to one of your earlier questions, sir, that you and your colleagues are absolutely right. We have had in British Columbia, where I'm from, an ombudsman for more than 35 years. It's the same thing in Ontario. This is not new in Canada. Today we have our serving members who are acquainted with the ombudsman.

Veterans Affairs committee  We can, but it's in rough form. They gave us a questionnaire of twelve questions that we had not seen until Friday—

Veterans Affairs committee  We trashed that. We did not agree with that. That was the Legion advocating and purporting to speak for people they did not speak for.

Veterans Affairs committee  Several times. In fact, this afternoon we again went through the department's latest submission, did the same, and said you've made a reasonable start, but it's now back to step two--start again. They're starting to get the message that the veterans bill of rights has to be in accordance with what the minister has clearly enunciated on more than one occasion, that it will be something that is simple, in bilingual format, that is hanging on the wall of every Veterans Affairs office in the country, so when the veteran comes in the door he or she can say “These are my rights.”

Veterans Affairs committee  We have, but that's been succeeded by this latest round of documents. When we were here in April, the draft we tabled was met with general consensus around the table. People said it's not perfect but we're quite comfortable with it. Then we made the mistake of going to the legal people.

Veterans Affairs committee  I absolutely reinforce what my president has said. We can't afford to wait for three, four, or five years before we have something in place, because unfortunately, as you know, there were two Canadian soldiers killed yesterday, and their families are going to have to be looked after.

Veterans Affairs committee  I agree.

Veterans Affairs committee  I have nothing to add.

Veterans Affairs committee  The Legion purports to speak for us all. It does not. Even within their own senior command structure, the positions they've taken at the dominion level have been challenged on their floor and in writing. Tom referred earlier to a very strong position that was taken by Ontario Command, one of the major components of the Canadian Forces legions, saying they disagree.

Veterans Affairs committee  I'm heartened by your comments. When we were working on the new Veterans Charter it was not exposed to a committee such as this, for a whole bunch of reasons. The honourable members didn't have an opportunity, and it went through. We all know it was passed in a single day, and all the rest of the things.

Veterans Affairs committee  I would think that another major area of concern, and I can't define it in a brief paragraph, would be, as I mentioned earlier, the interface with the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Canadian Forces when a wounded individual moves across from being a Canadian Forces member to being a Veterans Affairs client.

Veterans Affairs committee  It was the previous government.