Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to speak before this committee. For those of you who aren't aware, the Halifax Initiative is a coalition of development, environmental, faith-based, human rights, and labour organizations that works to democratize the international financial system.

Foreign Affairs committee  Well, we can talk about that. Until conditions in Peru and other developing countries address the enormous power differential between companies and local actors, are protective of communities' political, economic, social, and cultural rights, and ensure that companies make meaningful contributions to state coffers, extractive investment is unlikely to promote sustainable development.

Foreign Affairs committee  I certainly see greater convergence between those two things in the new CIDA programming that's part of the Canadian government's corporate social responsibility strategy. I hadn't considered the overlap between cases where communities and workers have raised issues about Canadian companies' operations and countries where we're providing ODA, especially not in the context of the mining map, but there's definitely a convergence of those two things now through this new policy, the corporate social responsibility policy, and the programming.

Foreign Affairs committee  That's an excellent question, one I think I could spend a lot of time answering. You know, it may sound trite, but it's things like respecting basic human rights. I mean, the allegations, the credible allegations, that have been investigated by reputable organizations regarding the operations of Canadian companies overseas include such things as forcibly relocating people from their traditional areas, causing them serious bodily harm, gang-raping them, killing them.

Foreign Affairs committee  The private sector has an important role to play in development. I don't think that's in dispute. I reviewed the testimony of the people who testified at this committee before me, and I don't see any dispute about that factor. The question is how, and under what conditions. As I said in my comments, I don't think conditions exist in countries such as Peru and the other countries you mentioned to ensure that extractive investment by multinational companies would lead to positive developmental outcomes.

Foreign Affairs committee  Do you mean specifically with respect to this new CSR programming, partnering with the extractive sector?

Foreign Affairs committee  I can't think, off the top of my head, of a country where the kinds of conditions that I'm describing—robust public institutions, pro-poor policies, an effective and independent judiciary, truly participatory decision-making, etc.—exist in a way that would guarantee that wealth generated by Canadian companies would contribute to real and long-lasting developmental outcomes.

Foreign Affairs committee  I want to respond to several points very quickly. First of all, had the Conservatives who were in the House of Commons voted for Bill C-300, it would have passed. Secondly, it's hard to see that Bill C-300 would irrevocably damage the extractive sector, given that the mining and oil and gas companies in Canada already claim to adhere to the standards embedded in that bill.

Foreign Affairs committee  I don't know. The sector I know the best is the extractive sector. But what I would say is that you anticipated my answer, that it would depend on the project or the particulars of the investment. I would say, yes, that's important. But more important are the other things I've been trying to emphasize so far this afternoon, which are the conditions in the country where the investment is happening—that is to say, whether there is an effective policy in an institutional context, a framework and capacity to allow the government where the investment is taking place to regulate the company, to levy appropriate taxes and royalties so that it can then spend on social programs, where there's an independent judiciary so there can be accountability, and where there's transparency about all of those things.

Foreign Affairs committee  First of all, you mentioned that there seems to be extractive investment and the lack of the kinds of conditions that I described. There seems to be a coincidence or they seem to happen in the same places. I would say that's an accurate observation, and it's not an accident; it's by design.

Foreign Affairs committee  I don't know where to start. I guess I would encourage the honourable member to—

Foreign Affairs committee  No, I'm not speechless. I don't know where to start. I guess I would encourage the honourable member to review testimony given before this committee on Bill C-300 and to review statements of claim before the Ontario and Quebec Superior Courts regarding the operations of Canadian companies, the Norwegian pension funds documents, and the websites and publications of reputable organizations like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you for the opportunity.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you.

Foreign Affairs committee  Before I answer the question about how much a minister has to do to comply with his or her duty, I want to respond to something else you mentioned, which is about the sovereignty of other countries. You didn't explicitly say this, but I think the implication is that there may be difficulties in carrying out these investigations because we would be doing them in other countries.