Fisheries committee  Let me say that it is certainly not restricted to surplus lighthouses. The Newfoundland and B.C. lights are operating lights, and so are most of the Nova Scotia ones. Divestiture is a program that DFO already has and seems to be operating. This might help it become more national, but there are no surplus lighthouses in British Columbia, and I do not believe there are any in Newfoundland.

Fisheries committee  Yes, you start the process. The process starts with the public. Right now, what's been happening is the public has not been involved. DFO transferred our light station to Parks Canada, and we read about it in the paper. DFO, of which you are the august parliamentary secretary, came and dismantled our assistant lighthouse keeper's house--just took it away overnight--when we could have used it for community purposes.

Fisheries committee  Well, I cannot ever speak on behalf of former senators. But I understand that since this bill has the backing of the government and has been certainly backed by the Liberal senators--it wouldn't have gotten through if it weren't for the Liberal senators--I can only assume that it will get quick passage if the House of Commons gives its stamp of approval.

Fisheries committee  He has already asked all the questions.

Fisheries committee  I realize your concern. You're overlooking the fact that right now communities cannot do this; they cannot contribute. I'm told that Mike Forrestall's son Tom is dying to go down to offer his services to paint a community lighthouse in Nova Scotia. There is no way to do it now because there is no way to actually permit the communities to assist, short of divesting them, turning them over.

Fisheries committee  First of all, many amendments have been incorporated in this bill over the time. The only two that I understand are being proposed by DFO.... One is to add wording to the preamble, for interpretive reasons, that says: AND WHEREAS it is important to provide access to heritage lighthouses, to understand and appreciate their contribution to Canada's maritime heritage; That would be in the preamble.

Fisheries committee  Yes. Just remember, access is not as big a problem in Nova Scotia. I have a list here of the 125 stations where access is a problem. In Newfoundland and Labrador, of course, there are 26 light stations only accessible by water or helicopter. Nova Scotia has 34. You have a lot of light stations--only 34.

Fisheries committee  First of all, I would like to thank you very much for suggesting an important change to the present bill, which is to restrict it to federal jurisdiction. In earlier versions of the bill, you opposed the wording on the grounds that it should be restricted, and I thank you for that.

Fisheries committee  It has no mandate. Money is a question of what you use budgeted money on. That's a different--

Fisheries committee  Never enough.

Fisheries committee  There are two parts to your question. A senator cannot introduce a money bill, so—

Fisheries committee  No, but for the record, you asked about—

Fisheries committee  Yes, and on two occasions, the House of Commons Speaker has said, “This is not a money bill”. When you're asking about allotting specific dollars, that is in your hands, but I'm loath to do that, because if you put a dollar figure, it'll be spent, and in many of these lights, the dollar figure might be quite low because the community will be offering resources.

Fisheries committee  Again, if it's an operating light, it may not be a heritage site. It's going to take time before these heritage sites are designated, beyond the ones that are already national historic sites, or designated as historic sites, so I can't give you the answer you're looking for. My position right now—nothing to do with heritage lights—is that if a DFO operation is crumbling, it should be replaced out of its operational funds, and I'm afraid that if you put a budget figure on this...and I'm not against it, but the money that is allocated to so-called heritage lights may go on other issues, may go on other spending.

Fisheries committee  We simply don't know. If you look at slide 8 in my presentation, you'll see that an awful lot of the B.C. light stations are so far away from communities that they may never be designated. It's the same with Newfoundland. But there are others on that B.C. page, like Merry Island, Entrance Island, Trial Island, Cape Mudge--most of the lower ones--that are accessible.