Agriculture committee  I want to react to that if I can. Talking about late-night thoughts, I was having this conversation with my wife last night, and she was telling me that the yard was a mess--

Agriculture committee  She said, “The yard's a mess, the lawn furniture's not put together”, and I said to her, “You know, I do a lot of things around here that just seem to go unrecognized.” I might get a similar reaction from this committee as I did from her last night. But I can point to several examples where the bureau has taken action to protect or promote competition in the agricultural industry or otherwise benefit Canadian farmers and other participants in the sector.

Agriculture committee  Thank you for this opportunity. We appreciate it.

Agriculture committee  We're of course happy to provide any information you might require. I think we're coming round to a common theme in some of the discussions that we've had so far this morning. I want to make sure that people understand what the role of the Competition Act is. It is to protect a competitive process.

Agriculture committee  Just as an overview of the reforms in Bill C-10, I'll give you a quick list of what the changes are and tell you how I think that impacts on enforcement. The first change, which actually doesn't come into force until a year or so from now, is the change to the cartel, the conspiracy provision of the Competition Act, to create a more effective enforcement regime for the most egregious forms of cartel agreements: agreements among competitors of fixed prices, allocated markets, or reduced output, while not discouraging firms from entering into potentially beneficial strategic alliances, collaborations, and joint ventures.

Agriculture committee  I think from the Competition Bureau's perspective, or at least from my own perspective, we take the laws as they are. The Canadian Wheat Board is a creature of statute, and we take that as it is.

Agriculture committee  Well, I think if it is an organization that is developed or authorized by regulation—by appropriate regulation, if you will, lawfully passed regulation or statute—there is a concept in our law referred to as the regulated conduct defence, which I won't bore you with. It essentially is a common-law-developed doctrine, which essentially provides a defence to parties where their actions are specifically authorized pursuant to lawfully passed regulations or laws.

Agriculture committee  Let me speak for a moment about that issue. On gas pricing, you may know that criminal charges were laid against a number of individuals and companies that were accused of fixing the price for gasoline in certain communities in Quebec: Victoriaville, Thetford Mines, and Sherbrooke.

Agriculture committee  I think that's an excellent question. It gives me a good opportunity to try to clarify on that point. I think you have to draw a distinction between big companies and monopolies. Maybe that will help to understand my perspective on this. We would be very concerned about a merger to a monopoly, just to put it bluntly.

Agriculture committee  I'm sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand your question, but if you're asking whether or not we have a say as to how a company would decide to allocate its profits then clearly that's not the issue. But I think you're really asking if you have a situation where as a result of a merger the combined entity would be able to significantly depress the prices it pays to its suppliers, whether they be cattle suppliers or other types of suppliers, to shift, if you will, the margin that's available in respect of that product, more to themselves than away, to the point where the price gets depressed significantly below the competitive level.

Agriculture committee  Obviously it's very difficult for me to speak to that issue. I know you have some witnesses who are coming from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade this afternoon, who I'm sure will be in a much better position than I am to understand how it's being done. It's similar to what I think we were talking about earlier on the legislation.

Agriculture committee  But metering supply to demand or charging the highest price you can obtain from the market can be looked at in a number of different ways. It can be looked at as firms seeking to maximize returns or it can be looked at as some form of inappropriate pricing. But the Competition Act is not a vehicle for price regulation and it doesn't make it unlawful for firms to charge high prices.

Agriculture committee  Unfortunately, I—

Agriculture committee  I think the only response I can really give you on that issue is that I understand the concern with respect to high prices. We're not debating each other on these issues at all. I'm really trying to lay out for you what the vehicle is under the act, what the scope of the act is, and what provisions could be potentially applicable to that conduct.

Agriculture committee  I always like to know the second question, so I don't trap myself with the first one.