Transport committee  Not at all.

Transport committee  As I noted in my initial presentation, there are really three factors at play when you open bidding up to competition. One is that, as the bidders increase, you have an incentive to try to beat your competitor. As there are more competitors, you are less able to anticipate the behaviour of somebody else.

Transport committee  There are a variety of reasons for collusion. Infrastructure is big dollars. It's a major source of revenue for construction companies, so there are a variety of reasons for collusion. Sometimes there are unsavoury elements at play. Other times it's if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Transport committee  The number—if we're including Waterloo and let's presume that is the case—is actually $942 million in Ontario alone. It doesn't include, for instance, any funds that have gone into energy infrastructure in Ontario, which is also subject to closed bidding but on which we haven't done the fine work that we've done at the municipal level.

Transport committee  That is the percentage.... I'm just going to refer back to my paper for a minute.

Transport committee  That's 10% of the initial study, which was $747 million.

Transport committee  Right.

Transport committee  Right. This a matter of provincial legislation, this particular issue. But the way in which the construction labour relations legal regime was set up, it was set up in the seventies to anticipate certain types of unions and certain types of relationships, and it was modified slightly later again.

Transport committee  Fair enough. But as I noted earlier if Waterloo goes forward, that's 28% of Ontario taxpayers so—

Transport committee  Thanks very much for that question. I would say this transcends issues of municipal politics as well. I'd like to just note that again, there are major energy and other infrastructure projects that the federal government funds—

Transport committee  Absolutely, and I'm just repeating my point. In terms of a percentage, what percentage of municipalities would be affected? It's a very small percentage of municipalities if you're looking just in terms of the number.

Transport committee  You're right, it's only four municipalities, but Toronto, Hamilton, Sault Ste. Marie, and the region of Waterloo are very populous municipalities. They're also centres of industrial and other economic action and therefore very strategic and important.

Transport committee  Yes. That is actually not what I said, but I appreciate the question. What I said was that those who were qualified should not be disqualified because of their private choices. Ostensibly certain companies that are otherwise qualified to do the work, and in fact, do the work a municipal line away or in a different province, or what have you, are disqualified because of the choices their workers make.

Transport committee  We surveyed 44 municipalities. We didn't survey all the municipalities, because there were too many.

Transport committee  I want to repeat the point I made at the beginning. This is not a question of union versus non-union. There are other models out there, other unions that are not—