Transport committee  Do you mean internally?

Transport committee  We have our own internal audit program, so we evaluate ourselves the components of SMS. As an IOSA airline, we also have external views on our SMS, and of course, there is Transport Canada oversight. We have many sources that validate the claim that the program is effective and evolving.

Transport committee  I would just add that our experience is that they are all very professional and that we would have no such concerns.

Transport committee  I think for all of the carriers here, our SMS programs have gone through numerous iterations through time—because we have some time under our belts here—and there definitely has been a maturing of the programs. In fact, we can much more often now see a direct link between outcomes—somebody mentioned injury rates, for example—and working back and being able to demonstrate that those happened because of the SMS itself.

Transport committee  Perhaps I could mention three things. The first is that very much every employee has training with respect to SMS, on the expectations, the main policies, but we also gauge and measure whether or not employees believe that. One way is through the reporting rates. The reporting rates from front-line employees have exploded throughout the implementation of SMS, which tells you something initially, that they are comfortable enough to come forward and report.

Transport committee  I would just say to embrace the change with safety management systems and really to help clarify for the Canadian public some of the misinformation and mis-characterizations that are out there with respect to SMS, because it really speaks of the confidence the travelling public should have in what is the world's safest aviation environment.

Transport committee  To supplement that, though, there are different levels, so it's risk based, as we've mentioned before. It's incumbent on Transport Canada to evaluate the need to look at the pieces as well on a much greater frequency depending on—

Transport committee  Could I just be clear on something? When we talk about assessing risk, risk is a continuum, of course, and safety is not an absolute. One of the hallmarks of SMS is that it's not about emotion. It's not about perception. It's about fact and evidence. When we look at any scenario, and this is just one scenario, what we're looking at is what evidence there is of hazard or risk, and if we change something, what does it do to that risk, and what can we do to mitigate it.

Transport committee  In Jazz's case that would be me, understanding of course that the accountable executive, which includes the responsibilities under safety, is the president and CEO.

Transport committee  Absolutely and respectfully, with a comment.... If you're doing the kinds of things you've always done with respect to safety and you're augmenting that with additional more sophisticated processes with a deeper oversight from the regulator, there is no way that the overall system could not be safer.

Transport committee  Again, just to echo previous remarks, Canada is very much and consistently seen as the gold standard across the globe. Again, both operators, in terms of benchmarking, and the regulator-to-regulator relations recognize this. It holds true for the international audience as well as the trans-border audience, so there is very little question about that.

Transport committee  Perhaps I could provide some clarification. When you speak of inspection, just for the members to understand, there are many layers of quality activity that happen within the carrier. We have everything from quality control, inspection activities rate at the practitioner level, whether that be maintenance, or even benders.

Transport committee  I'll offer some opening comments on that. Right from the foundations of SMS, employees were very involved in the development of policies and processes. Even once SMS was implemented, there are many layers in which we directly involve line employees. You mentioned risk assessments, which is a good example.

Transport committee  May I address the member's questions? I think they're relevant questions. The question does presume that, from the perspective and the experience of the operator, there is a problem with regard to the oversight. I can't speak to the motivations or characterizations in the survey.

Transport committee  If I could comment on that, we've made reference a few times to the fact that safety is not a corner of a building activity; the safety management system document set in fact comprises most of the operational documents across the organization. It's infused and integrated into just about everything we do from a procedural and a policy perspective.