Environment committee  Thank you very much. I too am a native Albertan. I grew up in Edmonton; I'm a Beverly boy. I grew up under the national energy program, I saw it for its short-sightedness, and the Eskimos and Oilers will always be my teams. I have always been concerned about the national unity issue in this discussion and about how it degenerates so quickly.

Environment committee  I have to be honest; I haven't heard at all how the Chinese government received that particular message from the minister. I didn't hear one thing or the other. I think there was a strong sense for many that it was an interesting.... The fact that there was no number yet is perhaps what pressed some governments to say that you can say it's going to be about a certain magnitude but that they'd like to hear what the number is.

Environment committee  The absolute target of 20% reductions from 2006 levels will not be met by international carbon mechanisms. That's right.

Environment committee  It is saying that it's very clear about its target, a 20% reduction from 2006 levels by the year 2020; that the base year is 2006 and not 1990, which all other parties have agreed to—

Environment committee  Parties to the Kyoto Protocol have—

Environment committee  The United States has not made it clear. They've said 2005.

Environment committee  But the informal word in the corridors is that this won't be a showstopper at Copenhagen for them. I'm not sure whether it will for the Canadian government. We'll see. Then there was a very clear enunciation by the Canadian government that as far as reaching that target is concerned—and this brings in Matthew's point about the costs associated with this—the target would be reached by domestic means alone; there would not be any international purchases.

Environment committee  Yes. That's what it has said internationally.

Environment committee  I guess Aldyen wants to answer for me, but I'll go on the National Round Table's analysis. They say it's possible, but that you're looking at a cost north of $100 a tonne, as Matthew has indicated as well.

Environment committee  You're looking almost immediately at a price of $100 a tonne, and north of that, if you don't take advantage of the international mechanisms.

Environment committee  I'm sorry if it all sounds a bit too arcane for everybody, but it's whether you're going to go down one negotiating track or two negotiating tracks. What it's about is trying to get major developing economies more engaged in the mitigation issues. The United States is forcing the issue by insisting that it will not sign on to the Kyoto Protocol as an amendment and hence will not participate in those discussions where developed countries are, down the track.

Environment committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Ouellet. Yes, I do think it can be a contribution, but I would also like very strongly to agree with Ms. Donnelly that this has to be followed up with a real plan. I think one of the failures we've had over the last 15 years is that we've never come up with a real, credible plan.

Environment committee  Yes, I hope that would be the overall impact of it. Some people in the past have charged—and I don't want to judge one way or the other—that this is just a mechanism to embarrass the current government. I really hope it's not used in that fashion. I really hope we can use this as a constructive way of working and going ahead in addressing exactly how we are going to meet that ultimate objective of 80% reductions by 2050—which, once again, I will remind everyone around this table is what the Prime Minister essentially signed on to when he agreed to the two-degree mark at the G8 summit.

Environment committee  I think this can't be resolved only by governments and Parliament; this really has to become a much broader national discussion. We have, for example, really called for a first ministers conference on a national energy strategy for quite a few years now. We need those kinds of discussions; we need this kind of bottom-up engagement.

Environment committee  Yes, I think that's an important part of the solution, absolutely.